My proposed explanation for the great pyramids.

[Schpankme]

Why is it so hard to believe the Egyptians went from their first true pyramid (Djosers) to the Great Pyramid in about 100 years? We went from the first Wright Brothers airplane in 1913 to going to the moon in approx. 65 years

No Man - during the so called Apollo Missions - has ever left the Safety of low Earth orbit (<500 miles).

Van Allen Radiation Belt
YouTube - Van Allen Radiation Belt

MoonFaker - Jarrah White
YouTube - WhiteJarrah's Channel

WAS IT ONLY A PAPER MOON - James M. Collier
Was It Only A Paper Moon?

A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE MOON - Bart Winfield
A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Moon - KrishnaTube.com -- Hare Krishna Video Sharing Community

WHAT HAPPENED ON THE MOON - Ronnie Stonge, David S. Percy
058 - 3223X9053R - NASA - What Happened on the Moon - 2 of 2

Apollo 11 Post Flight Press Conference
YouTube - theduderinok's Channel

Did we really land Men on the Moon - FOX Television stated that such skepticism increased to about 20% after the February 15, 2001 airing show; Seen by approximately 15 million viewers.
Did we really land Men on the Moon?

BOOKS:

We Never Went to the Moon: America's Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle - Bill Kaysing

NASA MOONED AMERICA - Ralph Rene

- Schpankme

"Houston, we've had a problem." - James Lovell

[Stealth]

The speed of light calculations are close. The discrepancies may be due to the miscalculations of theoretical speed of light to actual speed of light. See the true speed of light claculation here. speed of light This could make the discrepancies much closer than was realized considering the distances involved.Good Luck. Stealth

[rickoff]

Answer to Al, part 2:

Hardly a tale [ Sumerian Myths ] to inspire belief in these ancient "gods", much less build a theory on how advanced they were, or how they inspired and taught a people to do great things.

That the Sumerians were well advanced in relation to other cultures of the same period is indisputable. As Wikipedia states, concerning Sumer, "It is the earliest known civilization in the world and is known as the Cradle of Civilization." Sumer dates to the 6th millenium BC, the same time period as Nabta Playa, so both sites yield evidence of people with advanced knowledge who existed long before the dynastic Egyptian period. And as I pointed out in my previous post, your Egypt's Lost Legacy and the Genesis of Civilization link in post #185 offers compelling evidence that the Sumerians were actually ancient Egyptians who had left Giza because of the cataclysmic events that occurred there. If this is so, then they likely left behind much of their previous knowledge and expertise, having to basically start over from scratch, and thus it is amazing that they advanced as quickly as they did. Without the prior knowledge that existed in their minds, they probably could not have accomplished so much. Just think of how it would be today if a cataclysmic event caused us to migrate to other regions, taking along only what we could carry on our backs, and then starting over with nothing but personal knowledge to guide us.

The Mayans, Incas, etc. were no different; different people's, different "gods" and mythology, no mention of advanced anything from earlier races.

As I have mentioned before, the pyramid complexes of South America, as with the ones in Egypt, were laid out to mirror specific constellations at specific time periods, and the last known true alignment was at 10,500 BC, which corresponds to the end of the last ice age. If these complexes had been built later, as you suggest, then they would have been laid out to mirror the constellations at such later date, and not the alignment that existed in 10,500 BC. Now this very strongly suggests that the pyramid complexes were built either close to, or long before, 10,500 BC. Since the cataclysmic event that likely brought about the end of the ice age would have made building such pyramid complexes at that time extremely difficult, it would seem that they were built at or before an even earlier precessional astronomical alignment date - in other words, likely 26,000 years prior to 10,500 BC. And this would correspond closely to the ancient Egyptians own account of their recorded chronology. Both the ancient Egyptians, and the ancient Mayas, Incas, and Aztecs were highly advanced civilizations. Have you ever considered the models of flying machines that were discovered both in Egypt and South America?
World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines

Why is it so hard to believe the Egyptians went from their first true pyramid (Djosers) to the Great Pyramid in about 100 years?

Who can say with certainty that this is the correct time frame or sequence? Perhaps Djosers actualy was built by the dynastic Egyptians, as you suggest, while the Great Pyramid was most likely built around 36,500 BC or earlier, for the reasons I explained above. Six hundred years after Herodotus, the Roman scholar Pomponious Melas recorded in "De Situ Orbis" that, "The Egyptians pride themselves on being the most ancient peoples in the world. In their authentic annals one may read that since they have been in existence, the course of the stars has changed direction four times, and that the sun has set twice in the part of the sky where it rises today." This would equate to one and one half precession cycles, or around 39,000 years.

So once again, Al, let's drop preconceived notions that mainstream Egyptologists and contemporary scholars have fed to us, and instead concentrate on what we know the true ancients to have said, and passed on to us from the earliest times of civilization. And even then, let us consider that there may well have been several prior civilizations on Earth that were possibly even more advanced than the Egyptians or ourselves, and that they may have become largely extinct due to prior cataclysms. Scientists tell us that perhaps 8 or more ice ages have come and gone, so these thoughts are not at all unlikely or impossible.

Rick

[rickoff]

Answer to Al, part 1:

Hi Rick;

More articles on the Sphinx, one a good examination of erosion etc., one a different idea on what it was originally.

Redating the Sphinx: Reflections on the Geology

What was the Sphinx? | New Dawn : The World's Most Unusual Magazine

Both the above linked articles are quite speculative in nature. I did enjoy the second one, as it does agree with my theory that the sphinx head was originally an animal head that was later reduced to a much smaller size and then recarved into human form. I don't quite agree that the animal was a jackal, as he claims, and I think that what appears now as the spread out backdrop of an Egyptian headdress, was probably originally part of a lion's mane. As seen in the below photo, this seems to fit better than the author's theory of the head being that of a "wild dog."


I did, however, like the author's way of thinking as to the conventional views of many Egyptologists. In this regard, he expresses my own view by saying, "I have a pathologically anti-herd mentality. All you have to do is tell me 'everybody knows' something, and I will instantly disbelieve it." I can't agree with the author, however, on his explanation as to the Sphinx erosion patterns. First, he fails to recognize the vertical erosion patterns that exist on the Sphinx. Secondly, while acknowledging that sand accumulated around the Sphinx, and within its walled enclosure, or "moat" (which would have acted to protect the Sphinx and the walls by preventing water flow erosion), the author states that, "The vertical erosion on the sides of the pit, especially the south side, is because of the continual dredging of the Moat due to the windblown sand accumulating there. Every time the Moat was dredged, water poured down in torrents onto the sides.." Now you can take a bucket of sand, and saturate it with water to simulate this sand and water filled "moat." If you excavate, or "dredge" the sand, you are at the same time gradually removing and reducing the level of the water, so the effect of the water reduction is gentle and gradual. If the water level remains constant, or rises again due to seepage, the water effect is either nil or gradual. So where, then, did the water come from that "poured down in torrents onto the sides.."?

And here is Herodotus commenting on the Great Pyramid; apparently there was writing on the exterior walls which confirmed Khufu built it and how much he spent.

Herodotus on Khufu

The quoted writings of Herodotus, from your link, say nothing of writings on the exterior walls of the Great Pyramid. It only states that there was an inscription made on the pyramid, which could have been made anywhere, and at any time. Such an inscription was not offered by Herodotus as proof that Khufu built the Great Pyramid, and his account only relates what he was offered by the Egyptians as their account of how and when the pyramid was built. I would say that the explanation was either fantasized to Herodotus by the Egyptians, or that, as you postulated in an earlier post, they simply lied to him.

Because I think the weight of the real archeological evidence/knowledge supports my beliefs on the subject of what the Egyptians did/did not do, which is pretty much what the mainstream of Egyptology believes. And, I'm as stubborn as you are.
So to paraphrase a well known expression,"Go ahead and knock me baby, I can take it."

As I said before, Al, I respect your opinions and don't mean to knock you. I simply disagree with you on this subject.

But writings and speculation by authors of any kind based on twisted facts, mythology,psychic readings, mis-interpretations, mis-quoting of facts, quoting dubious sources as factual, etc. is hype/spin intended to sell books and enrich their bank account and is not evidence.

Okay, just for a moment then let's take everything written by modern man on the subject out of the equation. The oldest remaining inscribed chronological records of the Egyptians themselves state that their pre dynastic history goes back to a period somewhere in the range of 36,000 years ago. John Anthony West points this out in the first 2 and 1/2 minutes of the video YouTube - Magical Egypt II 1/5 and explains that modern scholars, while knowing this, ascribe this to "fantasy and romance of the ancient, primitive mind." John then goes on to say that, "this assumes that contemporary scholars know more about ancient Egyptian history than the ancient Egyptians themselves." To me, that is precisely the reason why we should rely on the earliest known records, rather than the generally accepted consensus of opinion of the Egyptologists that you prefer to follow.

I do believe there were races of men on Earth before the current one. In Genesis God told Adam and Eve to replenish the Earth and there are really ancient artifacts which support that. But there are no records or hard evidence of any of them in the last 10,000-15,000 years having any technology more advanced than the early Egyptians.

Now that depends upon whether you are talking about the early dynastic period Egyptians, who you claim to be the early Egyptians, or the pre-dynastic ones who say their history goes back 36,000 or more years. If we are talking about the pre-dynastic Egyptians then I agree, but if you mean the Egyptians of 2,500 to 4,000 BC, then this would not be true. Proof of that lies in the Nabta Playa megalyth. This structure is an astronomical timekeeping calendar which has been carbon dated to around 6500 BC, and its layout would precisely point to the vernal equinox heliacal rising of 6 different stars in the Orion constellation during the period from 6500 BC to 5200 BC. What is even more astounding about this finding is that while the center circle of stones of this megalythic structure are precisely aligned to stones placed at considerable distance from them, the distances themselves are proportional to the actual distances of the stars in relationship with one another and to Earth, wherein 1 meter of a stone's placement is equal to 0.799 light years of astrophysical star distance. So these ancients had a definite and incredibly precise knowledge of these distances and relationships, and the 26,000 year precessional cycle, and had it at a time that predates the supposed 2,500 BC construction of the Great Pyramid by thousands of years. It is only just recently that our own civilization has been able to accurately determine these star distances, and our findings closely match what the ancients already knew. In fact, the relatively small differences between our estimates and theirs can be attributable to the "margin of error" that we allow for our own distance measurements, which means that the ancient estimates could actually have been dead on. Here is a summary of two stars in the Orion Constellation:

Star Ancient estimate Our estimate

Bellatrix 254 Light Years 250 Light Years
Betelgeuse 428 Light Years 430 Light Years

Do your realize just how far away Betelgeuse would be? The distance that light travels in 428 years is equal to the following calculations:

Speed of light = 186,000 miles per second
1 year in seconds = 365 days x 24 hours x 60 minutes x 60 seconds, or 31,536,000 seconds.
430 Light years in seconds = 430 x 31,536,000 or 13,560,480,000 seconds
Miles to Betelgeuse = 186,000 x 13,560,480,000, or 2,522,249,280,000,000 miles
In other words, this equals 2 quadrillion, 522 trillion, 249 billion, 280 million miles. Can you think of anything at all which would explain how these ancients possessed such astoundingly accurate and advanced knowledge of the solar system? If not, then you must reject the claims of contemporary scholars of Egyptology.

To learn more about Nabta Playa, watch these two videos:
YouTube - Magical Egypt III 2/6
YouTube - Magical Egypt III 3/6

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Rick;

More articles on the Sphinx, one a good examination of erosion etc., one a different idea on what it was originally.

Redating the Sphinx: Reflections on the Geology

What was the Sphinx? | New Dawn : The World's Most Unusual Magazine

And here is Herodotus commenting on the Great Pyramid; apparently there was writing on the exterior walls which confirmed Khufu built it and how much he spent.

Herodotus on Khufu

Just wondering, Al, why it is that you seem to be so dead set against acceptance of any knowledge or theories about Giza that do not subscribe to popularized beliefs? I'm not knocking your beliefs, of course, and do respect your point of view...

Because I think the weight of the real archeological evidence/knowledge supports my beliefs on the subject of what the Egyptians did/did not do, which is pretty much what the mainstream of Egyptology believes. And, I'm as stubborn as you are.
So to paraphrase a well known expression,"Go ahead and knock me baby, I can take it."

But writings and speculation by authors of any kind based on twisted facts, mythology,psychic readings, mis-interpretations, mis-quoting of facts, quoting dubious sources as factual, etc. is hype/spin intended to sell books and enrich their bank account and is not evidence.

I do believe there were races of men on Earth before the current one. In Genesis God told Adam and Eve to replenish the Earth and there are really ancient artifacts which support that. But there are no records or hard evidence of any of them in the last 10,000-15,000 years having any technology more advanced than the early Egyptians. None of the other megalithic sites show any; all there is are glyphs of the gods they made up and attributed certain aspects to. Here is a sample of Sumerian mythology, which is so touted and hyped lately;

Sumerian Myths

Hardly a tale to inspire belief in these ancient "gods", much less build a theory on how advanced they were, or how they inspired and taught a people to do great things. The Mayans, Incas, etc. were no different; different people's, different "gods" and mythology, no mention of advanced anything from earlier races.

Why is it so hard to believe the Egyptians went from their first true pyramid (Djosers) to the Great Pyramid in about 100 years? We went from the first Wright Brothers airplane in 1913 to going to the moon in approx. 65 years and that's a lot harder than cutting and shaping rocks. And I heard no talk of gods helping us along the way (although I think He did to some extent), and we did not devote the entire country to this one task. We also were not being pushed by a maniacal, ego-driven Pharaoh and his kin intent on building his monuments and tomb at whatever cost.

So that is some of the reasons/reasoning behind what I believe. Of course you or anyone else is free to believe what they wish and I respect that right and your opinions. You asked about me and that is the point here. I repeat, I welcome any real evidence from any point of view. I sincerely hope the cave complex exploration or continuing archeology will turn up something, regardless of which point of view it supports.

Until next time,

Al

[Aaron]

The Scored Lines



Those are dates based on physical structure of different points in the
pyramid but there are something called the "scored lines" which are not
just at the beginning but in several other places.

[Aaron]

dig deeper

Hi Aaron;



Good one! However, I don't think you could use it to shatter concrete in mid-air as Andrew Collins suggested.

But you, sir, have been caught disseminating false information. There are no marks along the wall of the Great Hall indicating anything.

Al

I did read on multiple occasions that there are markings of all these
historically significant dates. I don't know if they are supposed to be
on the wall or on the floor but it is the primary point of topic that was
addressed to indicate all the significant dates.

1 inch equals a year - that was discussed quite a bit - dig deeper. Unless
you go there and look for yourself, you probably cannot say they are not
there.

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Aaron;

A jack hammer is a vibratory device that shatters concrete!

Good one! However, I don't think you could use it to shatter concrete in mid-air as Andrew Collins suggested.

But you, sir, have been caught disseminating false information. There are no marks along the wall of the Great Hall indicating anything.

Al

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Schpankme;

Say Hello To The Hebrew Patriarchs

So what is the point of this post, what was the source, and what does a plastic switch plate with an image of Jesus? and 2 children have to do with it?

Al

[ANTIQUER]

Keely

"the author mentions John Ernst Worrell Keely( who was an admitted con man) as an inventor of a vibratory device that would shatter concrete in order to support one of his positions."

Al,

A jack hammer is a vibratory device that shatters concrete!

Actually, I know of someone with evidence that just about everything Keely ever did was a
a fraud and not just with the air/hydraulic system under the floor of his lab. It would make
the Keely fans cry to know it. I don't know if that person will ever release it but it is the final
nail in the coffin for Keely.

[yoyo]

Hi Al,

I thought it was a commonly known. I'll have to find the reference(s)
somewhere. Of course commonly known by some circles of people that
believe things about the pyramid that the conventional researchers do not.

Anyone else know what I'm referring to? It is like a time line with significant
years marked.

Searched a bit - couldn't find my references.

But this is talking about the same thing. I guess it ends at the King's Chamber
and not the up/down split according to this page:
Great Pyramid (stone calendar) - 2012 Wiki

Hi Aaron,

The timeline is in several books,

Here's one Gods of the Dawn: The Message of the Pyramids and the True Stargate by Peter Lemesurier

[Schpankme]

Someone has to a member

The Bible says that Sarah, Abraham, Isaac, Rebekah, Leah and Jacob were buried in Hebron, in a cave called the Cave of Machpelah, purchased by Abraham (Gen. 23).

Say Hello To The Hebrew Patriarchs

One of the most complete narrative accounts of Hebrew descent and marriage occurs in Genesis, in the details of the lives of the patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

These well known legends provide illustrations of some basic principles of the ancient Hebrew Social Order along with some contradictory evidence on the dynamics of endogamy, inheritance and succession.

Primogeniture is the common law right of the first born son to inherit the entire estate, to the exclusion of younger siblings. It is the tradition of inheritance by the first-born of the entirety of a parent's wealth, estate or office; or in the absence of children, by collateral relatives, in order of seniority of the collateral line.

The Old Testament account of Hebrew origins begins with Terah of the Chaldean city of Ur (in Mesopotamia) and his three sons: Haran, Nahor, and Abraham. (Genesis 11:24-32). Haran has a son, Lot, by an unspecified wife. Nahor marries Milkah, who is noted as Haran's daughter. Whether the Haran mentioned here is Nahor's brother is unclear, since Nahor's father-in-law is identified as the father of Milkah and Iscah, but not of Lot.

Abraham is married to Sarah. No mention is given of Sarah's parentage, but later in Genesis passages, Abraham tells both Pharaoh (what was his name) (Genesis 12:10-20) and King Abimelech (Genesis 20) that Sarah is his sister to avoid the displeasure of these rulers, both of whom show a sexual interest in her. When Abimelech confronts him with his deception, Abraham answers that Sarah is indeed his wife but also his half sister by Terah's second marriage.

The three brothers experience divergent fates. Haran dies; Abraham migrates to Canaan, taking Haran's son, Lot, with him; Nahor remains in Mesopotamia, fathering one son, Bethuel, who in turn has two children Laban and Rebekah. (Genesis 22)

In Canaan, God promises Abraham that he will become the father of a great nation, but Abraham and Sarah fail to have children. Sarah gives her husband her Egyptian hand maid, Hagar, who bears a son, Ishmael.
Sarah finally gives birth to Isaac. Although Ishmael is his eldest son, Abraham designates Isaac as his heir and successor. Isaac's descendants continue in the line of Hebrew descent. Ishmael's form a separate and distinct people, the Ishmaelites. (Genesis 16).

In the meantime, Lot has separated from Abraham and gone to Sodom.
Sodom (and Gomorrah) are destroyed because of their iniquities,
Lot, because of his virtueLot, flees into the hills with his daughters, who trick him into sleeping with them. Each daughter gives birth to a son, who become the ancestors of the "accursed" Moabites and Ammonites. (Genesis 19)

Isaac grows to manhood, and when he is ready to marry, Abraham and Sarah make contact with their kins-people in Mesopotamia to avoid a marriage with the local Canaanites. Isaac is quickly linked up with Rebekah, his patrilateral parallel cousin. Isaac and Rebekah have twin sons, Esau, the eldest by a few minutes, and Jacob. Esau trades his birthright to Jacob for food. Esau later marries two local Canaanite women, who displease his parents, Esau regains favor by marrying his parallel cousin, Ishmael's daughter, who is referred to as Mahatath in one passage and Bashemath in another. Isaac dies, but just before his death is deceived by Rebekah and Jacob and gives his blessing and patrimony to Jacob rather than to his eldest son.

Jacob flees to his mother's, brother's (Laban's) house in Mesopotamia; Fearing Esau's wrath. Jacob contracts with Laban to work for seven years as bride service for his (parallel) cousin Rachel. After the term of service, Laban insists that Jacob marry Leah, his eldest daughter, Jacob has to serve another seven years to eventually earn Rachel's hand (Genesis 24-29).
Jacob returns to Canaan and is reconciled with Esau. Esau becomes the ancestor of a separate people the Edomites.

Jacob becomes the progenitor of the Hebrew people through twelve sons born from Leah, Rachel, and their two handmaids.
Each son, except Joseph, becomes the ancestor of a tribe of Israel, which bears his name.

Joseph's descendants are divided into two tribes, Manasseh and Ephraim, after his two sons, as a consequence their adoption by Jacob (Genesis 48).
In his final blessing, Jacob gives special recognition to Ephraim and his progeny, in spite of Joseph's protest that it should be rightly be given to Manasseh, as the eldest son. In addition to his twelve sons, Jacob also fathers a daughter, Dinah (Genesis 34). No account is given of any of Dinah's children or descendants.

Themes for discussion

1.The divisions among the Israelites and their immediate neighbors and among the tribes of Israel are modeled after a segmentary descent system.

2.The normal succession rule of primogeniture is consistently broken;

a.Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are youngest sons but assume the role of exclusive Hebrew ancestors at the expense of disinherited older brothers.

b.the special prominence of younger sons is followed in subsequent genealogical accounts, notably in the cases of Joseph, Ephraim, and (in a later cycle) David.

3.The delineation of the Israelites as a favored peoples is determined through a process of lineage endogamy (in-marriage) rather than primogeniture through:

a.Abraham's marriage to his half sister, Sarah,

b.Isaac's marriage to his patrilateral parallel cousin, Rebekah,

c.Jacob's marriage to his patrilateral parallel cousins, Leah and Rachel.

4.Collateral lines are disqualified because of exogamy (out-marriage), as in the cases of Ishmael, the son of an Egyptian, and Esau, who marries Canaanite wives.

5.Collateral lines are also disqualified because of incest, as in the case of Lot and his daughters.

6.Incestuous marriages also occur within the main line of succession

a.Abraham marries his half sister,

b.Jacob marries two sisters,

c.Judah fathers children with his daughter-in-law

.

The Giza Pyramid is as tall as a forty story building.

- Schpankme

[Aaron]

The Great Pyramid Timeline

Hi Al,

I thought it was a commonly known. I'll have to find the reference(s)
somewhere. Of course commonly known by some circles of people that
believe things about the pyramid that the conventional researchers do not.

Anyone else know what I'm referring to? It is like a time line with significant
years marked.

Searched a bit - couldn't find my references.

But this is talking about the same thing. I guess it ends at the King's Chamber
and not the up/down split according to this page:
Great Pyramid (stone calendar) - 2012 Wiki

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Aaron;

Then in the Great Hall, there are marks along the bottom side - 1 year is
1 inch and it goes from around xBC??? I think up to 2012 timeframe. Different marks for different significant moments in human history and ones
correlating to the world wars, industrial revolution, etc... and at the end,
is where the path goes down or up showing that mankind has a choice
at this time coming up very soon.

Just wondering where you got this info.?

Al

[Aaron]

other interesting things

One of the neatest properties of the Great Pyramid is the concave sides.
When it was covered in white alabaster, at noon on the summer solstice???,
the pyramid casts no shadow.

The sunlight would come down and hit all 4 concave sides like mirrors and
a beam of light would be focused in 4 directions that is said to be visible
from hundreds of miles away.

--------------------------------------------------------

With many of the pyramid experiments - other than showing its natural
dehydration/preservation aspects, plants grown in the same geometry
gravitation towards the center and 1/3 up from the base, which is exactly
where the King's Chamber is.

Seems that energetically, that is where the energy is concentrated -
inside of the King's Kofer. It is a fairly common idea that the Kofer was
used for initiation purposes and laying down in the pyramid, the person
is subject to that high stress potential (from the heavy granite stones
causing the piezeo electric high voltage stress) - and could possibly
transport either physically or mentally the person elsewhere.

My friend has been involved with the pyramid research for years. He was
with a small group that bribed the guards to let them spend some time in
the King's chamber. He had one near death experience from an accident
or heart attack, I can't remember - so he knew what it was like. When
laying down to meditate in the Kofer, he said he had an experience that
was like a near death experience.

---------------------------------------

Then in the Great Hall, there are marks along the bottom side - 1 year is
1 inch and it goes from around xBC??? I think up to 2012 timeframe. Different marks for different significant moments in human history and ones
correlating to the world wars, industrial revolution, etc... and at the end,
is where the path goes down or up showing that mankind has a choice
at this time coming up very soon.