Big Joule Theif

[kooler]

hv from a double A battery

i've only played with electronics for a year now so i bet you guys can make this better

[Watson]

Hi Jeanna.
Here's a rough Schematic.of the circuit. I did it in a hurry sorry The number 2 cap is a dipped type I dont have any way of knowing for sure what its uF or pF is. Do you know just how low a Battery will get before it stop's working the joule thief ??.Thanks again. Tec

I'm guessing that you really meant the transistors to be 2N2222A, not 2N222A, which haven't been available since the 1950s. Or possibly you meant that they were actually PN2222, which is the plastic package version. The 2N2222A metal versions are expensive, difficult to get, and really are not needed. Another plastic package equivalent to the 2N2222 is the 2N4401, usually available at Radio Scrap.

The battery has to be 0.6 volts to start the JT, because silicon transistors have 0.6V drop across the emitter to base junction, which must be forward biased to conduct. It might start at a slightly lower voltage, and it will run down to well under 0.6V, depending on the transistor, temperature and other part values. But whatever the voltage, the lower the voltage, the less the light output, until it's barely visible.

I've been playing with some Fairchild KSD1273 (same as 2SD1273) NPN superbeta power transistors. These have a gain of over 1000, much like a Darlington, but without the drawback of the 1.2 volt emitter to base voltage drop. They act a lot like the transistors used in the flash units of disposable cameras. They come in a TO-220 plastic power package but the whole transistor is insulated so no insulator is needed when it's bolted to a heatsink I got them from Arrow, but Mouser and Fairchild also sell them.
More about them here in my blog.

[morpher44]

pretty cool

small update to last video link

YouTube - hv 1.5 aa

Could you post your schematic?
I'm curious how you hook up to the car ignition coil.

[kooler]

small update to last video link

YouTube - hv 1.5 aa

[kooler]

hello,

i got a transformer... i got wired up like the joule thief
i thought you folks might find it interesting...
one AA battery and a 1/2 inch sparks
just a strobe circuit
YouTube - hv 1.5

the transformer pulls 101 ma's
don't really know if it is usefull

[morpher44]

Joule Thief with 2 5 inch basket weave aircoils

YouTube - Joule Thief - Experiments with Basketweave Air Coils

[jeanna]

Hi Tec,
I would really like to see what happens if you remove transistor #2 from the second circuit. When I did this all 5 leds I had at various places got bright.

I agree with blackchisel about your body ...

AND

I love to point out that tesla described with an ac (meaning pulsed dc or non steady) current, it was never necessary to close the circuit to the other side of the battery or generator, but a body to the ground was sufficient, and he actually suggested a piece of aluminum be stuck to the wall as a ground for a circuit of this type.

(All this business about ac going back to the battery or generator is really so we can be charged for the amps.)

So, please continue to try these things out. Our minds are closed and it takes a bit of prying to open them up. So, bring on the prybar!

@morpher44.

Thanks for the explanation.

I agree the joule thief sure does look like an armstrong oscillator.
Is that a thing from the world of radios?
I am intrigued by the variable resistor on one coil and variable cap on the other.

And, of course, my focus has been on using only the secondary and leaving the oscillator to use its tiny amount of energy.

btw, I was referring to a circuit lidmotor devised that had a center tap like a joule thief where maggie was magnetically coupled and making a light from the coil excited by the magnet circling inside the coil... like a regular alternator.

thank you,

jeanna
(oh, I am posting mybedini progress on the no rotor bedini thread started by jonnydavro.
and, there is a little video too.)

[morpher44]

coupling...

Tectalabyss, your body represents inductance, capacitance and resistance. There is also potential present on your skin. I think you're coupling with circuit changing it's parameters.

Vtech

Yeah... Its power that matters ... so even if you see voltage go up,
if current goes down at the same rate ... same power.
Also, there is the duty cycle to consider.
Since the LEDs are being pulsed at some frequency ...
with some duty cycle, the eye will see this as a certain
brightness. You can manipulate frequency and duty cycle
to control light brightness.
A very thin pulse width can produce light on an LED at
very low power. Leaving the LED on longer, wider pulse,
might make the LED brighter ... at the expense of power.

This Joule Thief circuit can be TUNED for optimum
frequency and pulse width for least power with
adequate LED brightness.

[blackchisel97]

Tectalabyss, your body represents inductance, capacitance and resistance. There is also potential present on your skin. I think you're coupling with circuit changing it's parameters.


Vtech

[morpher44]

armstrong oscillator

oops, here is the armstrong oscillator -- very similar to Joule Thief.

[morpher44]

air-coil JT

How is the joule thief connected to D2 and D3?
...
I wonder about the characteristics of this motor... bedini perhaps?
...
Am I mistaken?
Didn't lidmotor do this with his new (like a jtc) circuit and saturn magnets?
If a certain joule thief only uses 1.2v and 10mA or so and produces 90volts, I am sure it is possible.

@jeanna

So there are three coils on a common cylinder. I have a 1.75 inch
diameter .... If you face the cylinder with either end left and right,
then the left most wire of the left most coil corresponds to the
dot on one transformer. The left most wire on the right coil
corresponds to a dot on the other side of the transformer in
the circuit schematic. In other
words, preserve the phase relationships ... the wires on the same
side of the coil are the same phase ...
The Joule Thief SWAPS these phases ... see the dots on the
circuit.

Anyway, I'm interested in this regenerative oscillation --
180 degree phase shift stuff.

In searching for various oscillator circuits, I found one whereby
there are 3 RC circuits, each to produce a 60 degree phase shift
so that the sum total phase shift would be 180 degrees ...
JUST to cause the waveforms to be regenerative.
The Joule Thief does this simply by inverting the signals
on the transformer... giving 90 degree shift ... then run
through a transistor .. giving other 90 degree shift.

I see that the Joule Thief circuit is just an ARMSTRONG
oscillator with some simplifications.
See attached figure of classic Armstrong oscillator.

re: United Devices motor
The motor in that article is interesting.
It has a strong ALINCO magnet encased in two
IRON structures that don't touch ... but form
a hole for the armature to spin in ... one side being
NORTH from the magnet ... and one side being SOUTH.
The coil for the armature is wound around a cardboard
SQUARE shaped structure. It is not wound the traditional
way found in a motor .. .but rather its wound more like
you would find in a analog voltmeter ... or ammeter.
There is a diagram.
I imagine this sort of motor as being very sensitive
and that it will spin with very low voltage and low current ..
with the MAGNET being very strong.
In other words, very subtle energies picked up from RF
can make it spin.
Once it gets going, however, it produces its own
local fields that can feedback in to the receiver.
If it can be setup to feedback EXACTLY 180 degrees
from the incoming waveform ... it could possibly
SPIN up faster and faster to some equilibrium.
The trick here would be to make a very sensitive motor like that
and to make a sensitive RF receiver with full-wave rectification
to produce DC to spin the motor.

re: lidmotor
I don't think Lidmotor has his thing self-powered.
His little maggie light is just inductively picking up energy from
his other "powered" Bedini magnet-circuit.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[jeanna]

Hi Jeanna.
I see what you mean and checked it is working like a tank circuit.I have completely redone the circuit wound another coil,and got it hooked up sofar the voltage has went from 1.18 volts to 1.37 on a single battery.I dont know for sure how...

...why its charging the battery???.I am afraid to leave it running tonight has the battery is not a rechargable one.
Thanks for the help. Tec

Well I don't know, but it sure looks good.
Do not take that apart until you have drawn it from all directions.

Recharging is not something I have focused on. I have just made my first success with a bedini tonight so I haven't a clue... yet.


good going

jeanna

[jeanna]

...


The Joule thief is connected to D2 and D3
leaving the center coil *unused*.

Nice, morpher44,

How is the joule thief connected to D2 and D3?

This Utilities Engine article claims that the RF
received from the circuit presented can power
a specially constructed motor.
When the motor gets going, the EMF it produces
feeds back into the receiver ... providing
regenerative feedback.

I wonder about the characteristics of this motor... bedini perhaps?

... certainly
we can self-power a Joule Thief using a similar approach.

Am I mistaken?
Didn't lidmotor do this with his new (like a jtc) circuit and saturn magnets?
If a certain joule thief only uses 1.2v and 10mA or so and produces 90volts, I am sure it is possible.

Thank you,

jeanna

[jeanna]

I just deleted a big complicated reply, to you tec, but to stay present here...

How much voltage is in that cap C1?
If you use a bridge and a camera cap you can collect it and see what is oscillating up there at that secondary.

After that and after removing the bridge again, I am wondering how much you can do with your separate circuits.

I removed my second transistor once and I found that nothing had changed, so I stopped trying to use a second transistor and made my experiments to see what just one source of pulses could do. And the answer is a lot.

My suspicion is that it is the second toroid and not the second transistor that is expanding your circuit. And, you have made a repeater tank circuit in the first toroid coil and that is why when you remove the second one, things get weaker.

But, you should be able to use either toroid or both of them as 'transformer- inductors' to light a bunch of leds, so, I would like to hear more.

thank you,

jeanna

[Vortex]

I post to remind people ...
If you notice human touching around the circuit effects the
brightness of the LEDs, or turns them off/on, then an earth ground
in the right location could greatly boost voltage if you have a need for that.
Simple mass grounding will have effect as well to a lesser degree.