Gray Tube Replication

[Aaron]

purpose of this thread

I've built the "classic" Gray tube patent circuit and it charges the coil when the LV switch is thrown. So, it works as claimed but to what point and is there "free energy"? I don't know but it looks promising.

I haven't seen a difference with different variations of the circuit as I have posted and they all do the same as long as certain principles are applied. Bedini said the tube may be a red herring but this doesn't mean to discount it automatically.

I think as long as the circuit has a positive moving into another positive then being forced to ground, it is following the Gray circuit in principle. And if so, then these circuit attempts are appropriate for this thread.

[Electrotek]

Electrotek,

Here is your circuit: http://www.energeticforum.com/47450-post919.html

With all due respect, the circuits I posted are my own innovations and modifications of the plasma spark plug and variations of what Gray shows in his patents. All of my circuits were produced independently of anything you have ever shown.

What I consider to be the effect is the green burst visual effect in conjunction with a coil charging. When I see the green burst, I can bet money on what the scope shot probably looks like as far as the cap discharge in relation to the coil. I don't believe I have seen you post this and if you have, then I apologize, I have missed it. You may be getting other effects but as far as I know, it isn't the same as what I have seen or what I have predicted would happen if certain parameters are applied in a circuit.

ALL of our circuits here are simply knock-offs in one way or another of what Ed Gray shows so are we all, including you, guilty of plagiarism of Gray's circuits since in essence, we're all trying to be electrically identical to what Gray was doing?

I had posted these Gray type schematics actually as far back as 2005 online myself in icubenetwork before they were shut down when I tried to explain to everyone there how the reversed diode worked, etc... These were all wiped out and unfortunately the only references to this from me back then are in some saved threads discussing the Meyer technology and how the "voltage potential" circuits of Bedini are similar. All the threads specific to Gray on that forum are totally gone.

In either case, the first time the "effect" (according to my definition) has ever been shown online to my knowledge was in my video last summer on youtube showing my "silent plasma" video of the water spark plug circuit.

Here it is: YouTube - Water Sparkplug | Plasma Ignition | With current restriction

That is the second time I posted that vid on youtube under a different account since the first time, youtube yanked down everything but originally was around last August.

I started to experiment with the plasma ignition (not any schematic you have shown here or elsewhere), I knew the plasma was imploding so I reasoned that if I had a choke in series with the ground, it should limit "electrons" giving the gases in the plasma less electrons to reassemble itself and implode.

I hooked up the choke and the plasma went silent, still exploding water silently but I saw a change in the color of the plasma, it went green AND the wire on the choke was jumping with each pulse. The choke didn't prevent the implosion but what I found was simply validation of what I had known already.

Even before this in Overunity.com and maybe here, I was the first to show everyone the identical nature to the plasma ignition and the Gray circuit with the reverse diode effect - and was ridiculed at Overunity.com for claiming any similarity but anyway - the wire on the coil (choke) bouncing with each pulse gave me evidence to believe that I had been right all along about the reverse diode being necessary (based on Bedini's drawings and not what Gray showed).

Every one of my circuits has been a direct replica or modification of 1) Ed Gray's circuits shown in his patents and 2) my own innovations of the plasma ignition circuits.

The plasma ignition circuits pre-date Gray's work by DECADES and the only significant difference between all of them and Gray's patents are the large scale of discharge and coils and having a coil in series - that's it.

So I fail to see how I am plagarizing anyone. Again, the circuits I have used to explain anything have been Gray's circuits and different variations of the plasma ignition circuits with a coil in series with the effect, which I discovered on my own.

I have countless variations of these schematics that go back to 2001 or 2002 right after Peter put out his book. My first Gray tube circuit was built around 2001 or 2002 with the help of John Bedini giving me a few machined parts for the tube...a solid state Gray tube circuit that runs 100% from an Earth ground and antenna. Most of these schematics I have would have been a simple plasma ignition circuit if I took the coil out but why would I want to do that back then?

So anyway, you can claim plagarism of your circuit by me if you want but that is far from the truth. If you ever had a problem, you could always have tactfully sent me a PM about this to at least get my viewpoint but instead, you choose to openly attack and accuse me on this open forum. So be it...

Aaron: You are correct, this is my circuit:

http://www.energeticforum.com/47450-post919.html

And here is your circuit:

http://www.energeticforum.com/57090-post1405.html

Your circuit (the second one) does not have a blocking diode and will not produce the green sparks effect in your video. Your three point discharge circuit is the same thing I've shown on this forum as far back as December.

To my knowledge, no one other than you has shown the green burst, with multiple sparks and no camera saturation. (I believe this was an authentic Tesla effect since he said the color of the Radiant Energy changed with the frequency.) However, you did say that the green perimeter around Ghst's discharge was "the effect" and I certainly have shown the same thing.

My circuit does not plagiarize Gray's since he shows the 3 points as the Overshoot Switch, not the CSET. And my circuit (the third one) does not include a blocking diode. But your green spark circuit does.

Copyright law says that to maintain your copyright you have to aggressively defend your work. If I didn't, then you could prevent me from publishing my own circuit, simply because you also claimed copyright on the same circuit.

You're right, I could have sent you a PM, but I had to be assertive about it. Also, I'm very tired and the stress is getting to me. There may be something to the health effects. I've been doing a lot of tests recently that I haven't posted, and I know there was some kind of high density exotic energy involved at least part of the time.

I'm going to continue publishing my circuit and stating that I have a copyright on it.

[barbosi]

Ok, I'm going to challenge you Ego and see for yourself if you have a reason to feel attacked.

....
I think that what you are calling classical Ed Gray Tube, is the patent drawing. Look this is not a sure thing as to what Gray was doing.

How do you know? Admit it, it's a simple asumption...
As yourself say:

But it does say that different arrangements and different metals and materials can be used.

And this is from the patent. But regardless the arrangement and materials used, there are only: HV Anode, LV Anode and Collector terminals.

Then:

Again I will state that Photographs of Grays actual devices reveal at least three that bear no resemblance to each other or the patent drawing.

Could you publish the photos? We may analyse if circuitry is changed or is only the tube's construction, isn't it?

That said I am trying to build a device that may or may not be like Gray's while trying to use arrangements and materials available to Gray. No one said go away when I showed video proof that Gray's Tube could blast coils 2 3 feet into the air.

I am not aware of this. Did you use the Collector grid for that blast? There are many others with same results with no connection whatsoever to Gray's patents.

.... But I am getting the same results in some areas as Gray did.

Jumping coils? I did better (5-6 feet) using the flash circuit from a disposable camera. See Dr. Becker on youtube. But this is not what Gray did... Gray did much more.

... Now I get that image in every one. From different angles, and at different times during the discharge.

And do you know at least if is safe? Are you on X-Ray range? You could have thank me for the cheap idea... But you won't feed other's Ego

... But don't tell me to stop and wait for you to catch up.

If that takes you through the night, by all means don't wait for me!
It would more gratifying for the Ego to start your own thread instead; what do you say? ask him... You may have discovered a different principle than Gray. Don't let it be buried here! Go high, go fast, go public! Deal?

By the way, thats pretty gutsy telling Aaron his circuit is wrong and not to post on his own thread.

What I have said, and pay attention next time you read, that actually Aaron's configuration was closest to Gray's and even more, I was thankful he revealed something that many (including me at the beginning) did not understand.

Barbosi, start a Ed Gray Duplication thread. Then you can tell others that if they ain't doing like the classical Ed Gray Tube of your visions then they must leave.

Again, a big Ego needs lots of to keep proving "Oh Yeah, I'm Thinking Way Out Of The Box". If one can just read and ask questions on what cannot understand, it won't jump at the thought first. We all learn. All the time. I bet if you had your CEST you won't be here. But you need help from time to time. Otherwise you won't publish the "ghost" image, unless the Ego demands: " Show your value dude!!! You're so good" But wait for fresh ideas from appreciative people, then go higher!

Sorry, you're saying...?

[Jan H]

I don't see what the problem is with deviating from grays original plans. To this day i think no-one knew exactly what gray did. And messing around with these circuits just might cause a break through of some sort.

And besides the quest is not to replicate gray, the quest is for free energy

[Ghst]

barbosi, I certanly am staying and posting on this thread. Are you building a Gray device? I think that what you are calling classical Ed Gray Tube, is the patent drawing. Look this is not a sure thing as to what Gray was doing. Again I will state that Photographs of Grays actual devices reveal at least three that bear no resemblance to each other or the patent drawing. But it does say that different arrangements and different metals and materials can be used. (Gray was trying to cover any duplication attempts in his patent) That said I am trying to build a device that may or may not be like Gray's while trying to use arrangements and materials available to Gray. No one said go away when I showed video proof that Gray's Tube could blast coils 2 3 feet into the air. The source of power in all of my experiments is one 7 amp hr. 12 V Battery. This battery is capable of jumping the coils only about 2 inches. Again I have made no claims to have Gray's Tube right, But I am getting the same results in some areas as Gray did. In all my other test videos that image was not in one of them. And I have filmed over a hundred tests. and I have posted about 60 videos. Now I get that image in every one. From different angles, and at different times during the discharge. I was not looking to find these images but I do think that anyone working on replicating Grays system results, should be aware of what they might find. I have sent several frame shots to others and will send them to a few more, but I will not post these pictures here. You should be aware that most everyone here has spent countless hours with the Patent drawing Tube. So build your tube, fire your circuit as many times as makes you happy. But don't tell me to stop and wait for you to catch up. By the way, thats pretty gutsy telling Aaron his circuit is wrong and not to post on his own thread.
Barbosi, start a Ed Gray Duplication thread. Then you can tell others that if they ain't doing like the classical Ed Gray Tube of your visions then they must leave.

[Aaron]

discussion thread

If one wishes to present his [novel or not] ideas may simply open a new thread.

This thread was setup for this:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3795-gray-tube-discussion.html

[barbosi]

This circuit Aaron presented in his recent post is actually MY circuit, copyrighted 2005, 2009 and presented in my post #919 on page 31 of this thread, on 3-02-2009. The circuit he posted and copyrighted under his own name is electrically identical to what I posted. And I've discussed my copyrighted three point discharge circuit on two other forums before I came here.

He also left me off of his short list of people other than him who have produced the effect, even though he's using MY circuit to explain the effect, and in spite of the many pictures of the effect which I've posted here.

Unless the issue of this plagiarism is resolved, I'm not going to post any more circuits on this forum.

Dear Electrotek,

Beside capacitor discharge I don't really understand what you wish to accomplish. Not saying it has no value, but when I read this thread, my focus is on Grey tube replication only. With this in mind, I was appreciating Aaron's work on his first post (which started the thread LOL).

@All,
And I wish to see on this thread more CEST only related stuff, if any. As presented in Gray's patents and greatly commented by Dr. Lindeman, CEST has one HV Anode, one LV Anode and one or more Collector Grids. It also works in a specific setup (please refer to any of the sources I suggested above).

According to these qualifiers, any other setup is simply not Gray's way of producing cold electricity. If anyone does not believe me, I simply dare them for lighting a light bulb with their setup, then immerse it in water, then immerse also a hand in the same bowl.
Legal non-liability stuff (there may be some crazy people out there lol) Before having foolish attempts to prove anything, I suggest a fresh new study and build/test after you understand the underlying principles. I will not be responsible for accidents caused by lack of knowledge and/or misuse of common sense.

If one wishes to present his [novel or not] ideas may simply open a new thread.

Regards.

[Aaron]

@Electrotek

This circuit Aaron presented in his recent post is actually MY circuit, copyrighted 2005, 2009 and presented in my post #919 on page 31 of this thread, on 3-02-2009. The circuit he posted and copyrighted under his own name is electrically identical to what I posted. And I've discussed my copyrighted three point discharge circuit on two other forums before I came here.

He also left me off of his short list of people other than him who have produced the effect, even though he's using MY circuit to explain the effect, and in spite of the many pictures of the effect which I've posted here.

Unless the issue of this plagiarism is resolved, I'm not going to post any more circuits on this forum.

Electrotek,

Here is your circuit: http://www.energeticforum.com/47450-post919.html

With all due respect, the circuits I posted are my own innovations and modifications of the plasma spark plug and variations of what Gray shows in his patents. All of my circuits were produced independently of anything you have ever shown.

What I consider to be the effect is the green burst visual effect in conjunction with a coil charging. When I see the green burst, I can bet money on what the scope shot probably looks like as far as the cap discharge in relation to the coil. I don't believe I have seen you post this and if you have, then I apologize, I have missed it. You may be getting other effects but as far as I know, it isn't the same as what I have seen or what I have predicted would happen if certain parameters are applied in a circuit.

ALL of our circuits here are simply knock-offs in one way or another of what Ed Gray shows so are we all, including you, guilty of plagiarism of Gray's circuits since in essence, we're all trying to be electrically identical to what Gray was doing?

I had posted these Gray type schematics actually as far back as 2005 online myself in icubenetwork before they were shut down when I tried to explain to everyone there how the reversed diode worked, etc... These were all wiped out and unfortunately the only references to this from me back then are in some saved threads discussing the Meyer technology and how the "voltage potential" circuits of Bedini are similar. All the threads specific to Gray on that forum are totally gone.

In either case, the first time the "effect" (according to my definition) has ever been shown online to my knowledge was in my video last summer on youtube showing my "silent plasma" video of the water spark plug circuit.

Here it is: YouTube - Water Sparkplug | Plasma Ignition | With current restriction

That is the second time I posted that vid on youtube under a different account since the first time, youtube yanked down everything but originally was around last August.

I started to experiment with the plasma ignition (not any schematic you have shown here or elsewhere), I knew the plasma was imploding so I reasoned that if I had a choke in series with the ground, it should limit "electrons" giving the gases in the plasma less electrons to reassemble itself and implode.

I hooked up the choke and the plasma went silent, still exploding water silently but I saw a change in the color of the plasma, it went green AND the wire on the choke was jumping with each pulse. The choke didn't prevent the implosion but what I found was simply validation of what I had known already.

Even before this in Overunity.com and maybe here, I was the first to show everyone the identical nature to the plasma ignition and the Gray circuit with the reverse diode effect - and was ridiculed at Overunity.com for claiming any similarity but anyway - the wire on the coil (choke) bouncing with each pulse gave me evidence to believe that I had been right all along about the reverse diode being necessary (based on Bedini's drawings and not what Gray showed).

Every one of my circuits has been a direct replica or modification of 1) Ed Gray's circuits shown in his patents and 2) my own innovations of the plasma ignition circuits.

The plasma ignition circuits pre-date Gray's work by DECADES and the only significant difference between all of them and Gray's patents are the large scale of discharge and coils and having a coil in series - that's it.

So I fail to see how I am plagarizing anyone. Again, the circuits I have used to explain anything have been Gray's circuits and different variations of the plasma ignition circuits with a coil in series with the effect, which I discovered on my own.

I have countless variations of these schematics that go back to 2001 or 2002 right after Peter put out his book. My first Gray tube circuit was built around 2001 or 2002 with the help of John Bedini giving me a few machined parts for the tube...a solid state Gray tube circuit that runs 100% from an Earth ground and antenna. Most of these schematics I have would have been a simple plasma ignition circuit if I took the coil out but why would I want to do that back then?

So anyway, you can claim plagarism of your circuit by me if you want but that is far from the truth. If you ever had a problem, you could always have tactfully sent me a PM about this to at least get my viewpoint but instead, you choose to openly attack and accuse me on this open forum. So be it...

[RAMSET]

Electrotek
Quote<
This circuit Aaron presented in his recent post is actually MY circuit, copyrighted 2005, 2009 and presented in my post #919 on page 31 of this thread, on 3-02-2009. The circuit he posted and copyrighted under his own name is electrically identical to what I posted. And I've discussed my copyrighted three point discharge circuit on two other forums before I came here.

He also left me off of his short list of people other than him who have produced the effect, even though he's using MY circuit to explain the effect, and in spite of the many pictures of the effect which I've posted here.

Unless the issue of this plagiarism is resolved, I'm not going to post any more circuits on this forum.
end quote

???????????
Chet

[Spokane1]

The relavance of the Ghst experiments

With all respect, Ghst's experiments have a different setup that Ed Gray suggested. And if I'm still on Gray's tube replication please find the corrected diagram for your convenience (which also doesn't contain Aaron's excellent contribution ).
Also it does not contain the collector grids which were the whole point in firing the HV coils.

The only interesting thing was about X-ray exposure and I suggested to use a regular film to find out. No lenses needed to be involved or other equipment. For the sake of safety and results assessment.

But hey, I don't wanna ruin your party....

PS: Picture is modified from Spokane1 document. (C) stuff

Dear Mr. barbosi,

Your have a very legitimate concern that this Ghst exploration might be a tangent to the E.V Gray/Marvin Cole technology.

I find it very relavant for these reasons:

1. The whole developent of the CEST was intended as a replacement for the arc stretching process that was used in the sucessful EMA4-E2 100 HP motor. As far as my historical research goes the Gray CEST never did work. If you know someone who knows otherwise I would certainly like to discuss the matter with them. The Marvin Cole CEST probably did work, but we know almost nothing about it.

2. It is suspected that the arc stretching process used in the motor was a 2nd stage system that derives its feed stock energy (stored in capacitors) from yet another previous arc process. It is a good bet that this 1st stage system also employed some kind of modified stretched arc, all-bet-it not as dynamic as the approach used in the motor. The Imhotep research has attempted to explore this avenue.

3. The heart of the first stage Cole porcess was a modified ignition coil that required a spark gap (according to Mr. Gray).

4. The initial energy was collected over time and stored in a capacitor. Once the initial "charge" was collected, then the following systems could generate an abudance of OU in a near continuous process using some kind of a feedback loop.

Conclusion:

The Ghst experimental setups employs all the components of the original anomalous power supply as developed by Marvin Cole. Mr. Ghst has reported a very unusual event involving these components using a simple yet very novel means of manipulating a spark gap that suggests a stretching process. The process he employs involves a storage sequence and a novel discharge sequence. Don't over look the fact that the stored discharge from the storage capacitor takes place with one electrode being the ionized gases of a pre-existing arc.

I concede that the Holographic response is not OU but it certainly demonstrates something that diverges from classical processes. Any X-ray or other harmful scalar radiations is another matter.

For the small cost of reproducing this setup I consider this exploration a valid addition to the body of information surrounding the Cole technology. I support Mr. Ghst's work and appreciate the disclosures he has shared with this forum.

However you point is still very valid.

Spokane1, PE

[Electrotek]

With all respect, Ghst's experiments have a different setup that Ed Gray suggested. And if I'm still on Gray's tube replication please find the corrected diagram for your convenience (which also doesn't contain Aaron's excellent contribution ).

This circuit Aaron presented in his recent post is actually MY circuit, copyrighted 2005, 2009 and presented in my post #919 on page 31 of this thread, on 3-02-2009. The circuit he posted and copyrighted under his own name is electrically identical to what I posted. And I've discussed my copyrighted three point discharge circuit on two other forums before I came here.

He also left me off of his short list of people other than him who have produced the effect, even though he's using MY circuit to explain the effect, and in spite of the many pictures of the effect which I've posted here.

Unless the issue of this plagiarism is resolved, I'm not going to post any more circuits on this forum.

[Electrotek]

@ electrotek: Wise words. Why indeed attract more attention on ourselves...
Free energy research is hardly tolerated, imagine trans-temporal effects !

Research could be better oriented in the direction of identifying what exactly produces the specific signature detectable light-years from here, when a free energy circuit is pulling energy from the aether. Then finding ways around that.

And I wonder if we have enough time.

I think the free energy circuits are pulling in non-local energy. Sub space is defined as the universe minus one or more dimensions. If the dimension we strip off is that of the universe's expansion, then all of the mass of large parts of the universe will be still be in contact, in sub space. It's the same effect as quantum entanglement, when two photons remain in contact when the separation dimension is removed. (See sub space decoherence, at LANL.) So a part of the energy spread out through our region of the universe simply transfers to our circuit, through sub space. Or, it appears momentarily as the ZPE field, also transferring through sub space.

I've noticed that there are partitions in sub space, similar to office cubicles or the walls of a closet. These partitions spread out in a uniform pattern. While I have no way to determine the sidereal distance between the partitions, astronomers have identified several regions in the universe, on the scale of 400 million light years, in which the overall amount of energy is decreasing. Perhaps each region contains at it's center an advanced civilization which is extracting free energy?

If we desire to mask our free energy activities from the rest of the universe, it may just be a matter of erecting closer partitions. Then the free energy would only drain, say, our stellar region, or just our neighborhood. But this might produce long or short term consequences which we could find to be undesirable.

As far as our remaining time, I was told in '97 that "T has been adjusted by two years". Does this mean that 2012 changed to '10 or '14? Now I hear that the fascists' schedule is 7 years behind. (Don't heave a sigh of relief because all of this may be disinformation.) From a Machian frame of reference, singular translations interact with the universe in such a manner that the future is pushed away from the observer. I have one of these machines and it may be pushing the future back. If cataclysm is in our future, surely this future needs to be pushed back. Perhaps everyone should have a translation machine?

But our future will surely be shortened, through intervention or otherwise, if we start down the path towards Higher Energy Lowering Light. (HELL) This light is unimaginably hot, and the temperature can unbelievingly double in an instant. Those entranced by the word Scalar can surely find some kind of electrode besides the Omega to work with. (Omega means The End.) Such as the J electrode - as in J Under Moving P (JUMP) - or the G electrode, which means Go. (ie, propulsion) I think Gray was using the E electrode, which means Energy.

Sorry about straying off topic.

[barbosi]

Ghst's setup is not Gray's

With all respect, Ghst's experiments have a different setup that Ed Gray suggested. And if I'm still on Gray's tube replication please find the corrected diagram for your convenience (which also doesn't contain Aaron's excellent contribution ).
Also it does not contain the collector grids which were the whole point in firing the HV coils.

The only interesting thing was about X-ray exposure and I suggested to use a regular film to find out. No lenses needed to be involved or other equipment. For the sake of safety and results assessment.

But hey, I don't wanna ruin your party....

PS: Picture is modified from Spokane1 document. (C) stuff

[Spokane1]

WalMart as a source of carbon arrow shafts - not

Gentlemen,

Save your self a trip and scratch Wal-Mart off your list of possible vendors to secure a carbon arrow shaft. According to a staff member at my local Wal-Mart they don't expect to receive their archery supplies till August.

Dear Mr. Ghst,

A few more important operational questions while I collect additional components to build your circuit: (at your leasure)

1. Is this phenomena repeatable? How may times have you seen this holographic image manifest with your equipment?

2. About how long does it take to charge your storage capacitor using your mechanical chopper?

3. You have already described your storage capacitor as being a 4uF 6KV device in a rather large can, that you aquired from eBay. It would be most helpful to me to know additional information if it is avaliable. Is there a manafacture lable and/or model number on it? Any idea how old (or new) it is? Is there any reference to the kind of oil it may have? Is there any lable stating "Pyronol" (or similiar). Could you venture a guess as to its dielectric materials. Where was it made? If you have a thumb nail photo of the capacitor as it was listed on eBay that would be outstanding.

The details about the storage capacitor have historcial significance to the E.V.Gray Saga. He had his capacitors custom built in 1000 Oaks CA. even as late at 1986. This suggests that the construction features of the storage capacitor may have a huge impact on the operation of the circuit. I suspect that how much of the anomalous energy you can hang onto depends upon the nature of the storage capacitor.

4. Are you still using the 7 A-hr lead-acid gel storage battery - or have you made power source changes?

4. Have you attempted any variations in circuit setup in the last few days since you observed and reported on this phenomena?

Thanks again for your outstanding original contribution and the direct detail you have provided in follow up questions. Rarely does a researcher have the ability or desire to provide such a wealth of detail concerning their potential discoveries in past blogs dealing with non-classical phenomena.

Spokane1

[Altair]

@ electrotek: Wise words. Why indeed attract more attention on ourselves...
Free energy research is hardly tolerated, imagine trans-temporal effects !

Research could be better oriented in the direction of identifying what exactly produces the specific signature detectable light-years from here, when a free energy circuit is pulling energy from the aether. Then finding ways around that.

And I wonder if we have enough time.