Gray Tube Replication

[Raui]

Ghst, I remember in one video seeing grey use plastic as his core in a coil which acted like iron. Perhaps this might be something to try out?
Raui

[Ghst]

Yep, right thru the plastic! You know, with a large plasma burst as when I'm launching the coils, the plasma looks almost like a liquid or a exploding paint splash. This discharge was a like I said a burp. I don't know why it puffed, the discharge should have been larger. But I let her run and the very next discharge is the one that I e-mailed you the photo series of. That is totally freaky! I can allow a little air in or plug it off with the hollow arrow shaft. This hollow electrode allows me to introduce air directly into the discharge. Oh yea, The plasma discharge doesn't diminish even tho I am launching two coils.I didn't have a microwave primary to match the one I had , So I tried to wind one to match, I didn't do a very good job. And LOL the microwave primary was... aluminum! All though I can get a decent lift with the new set. I know it would be better with matching coils. But the matched set of coils still preform as without the second set, Preferably all coils should match.

[Electrotek]

Ghst: I knew you were up to something, but this is amazing! Is there a hole in the jar, or is the plasma ball going right through the plastic? It didn't come from the arrow shaft did it? I really like the purple glow around the distant wires. Keep at it. You're the best!

[Ghst]

Slow Discharge

I have some revealing photos of a discharge from "The Jar". the first shows the origin of the discharge. (This is its birth place) I have noticed that the effect comes from the sparks that are present at the time of discharge. This is how I could produce two bursts at the same time in my conventional Gray tube. But this is a photo of my multi-gap.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3662/01beginningburst.jpg

This is the same discharge, clearly showing a plasma ball leaving "The Jar" I get this effect a lot the plasma ball leaves the Jar usually going strait up.There is even one in the still that Aaron posted (Thanks) thats completely left "The Jar" and the main discharge.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/4651/02capturedwhileescaping.jpg

And this is the first time I have seen this! the plasma, as the burst is diminishing, seems to be drawn back into the LV electrode. (which is a hollow carbon fiber arrow shaft. I have attached a round ring of copper around the carbon shaft's end that is inside the tube. Maybe thats what the plasma is drawn to. Anyway Here it is.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2112/03plasmaconnection.jpg

This was a small, slow burst , almost like a burp. Enjoy!

[Ghst]

Slow Discharge

I have some revealing photos of a discharge from "The Jar". the first shows the origin of the discharge. (This is its birth place) I have noticed that the effect comes from the sparks that are present at the time of discharge. This is how I could produce two bursts at the same time in my conventional Gray tube. But this is a photo of my multi-gap.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3662/01beginningburst.jpg

This is the same discharge, clearly showing a plasma ball leaving "The Jar" I get this effect a lot, the plasma ball leaves the Jar usually going strait up.There is even one in the still that Aaron posted (Thanks) thats completely left "The Jar" and the main discharge.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/4651/02capturedwhileescaping.jpg

And this is the first time I have seen this! the plasma, as the burst is diminishing, seems to be drawn back into the LV electrode. (which is a hollow carbon fiber arrow shaft). I have attached a round ring of copper around the carbon shaft's end that is inside the tube. Maybe thats what the plasma is drawn to. Antway Here it is.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2112/03plasmaconnection.jpg

This was a small, slow burst , almost like a burp. Enjoy!

[Ghst]

Electrotek, please check your e-mail. Enjoy

[stevend]

Steve,
It seems that electrons would have to come from the HV rod to the grid in this setup but the coil seems to charge different than a typical cap discharge and I'm not so sure it is normal electron current. It is definitely something that allows the coil to charge and with the effect, the cap discharges as if the coil isn't even there to offer any resistance or impedance.

Anyway, this would mean that at the HV rod, if that is where the electrons are coming from, voltage and "electrons" are moving in one direction while the current moves in two directions at the same time on the HV rod.

On that particular setup, there was no switch at the LV rod as it was closed. The event happened whenever C2 was high enough when there was a pulse from the ignition coil synchronized to collide and both the HV rod and C2 moved to the LV rod so the "electrons" could have easily come from the LV rod and not the HV rod, possibly.

Aaron,
I too suspect that at least some of the electrons are coming from the LV rod. This makes sense since as you've said yourself, the LV rod is at a lower positive than C2 i.e. more negative. I figured they were arcing from the LV rod to the HV rod and thence to the grid. From your video, the green flash does seem to come from the same area that the arc is happening between the HV rod and the grid to charge C2. That is, from the end farthest from the LV rod and nearest C1. I suspect one of the places where you soldered one of the wires connecting the two grids is a little sharp or as least nearer the HV rod than the rest of the grid and so the arcing at least starts there. It looks that way on your video and is what's happening to mine.

I also suspect (hope for) something more than regular electrons, especially since the LV rod is only less positive than C2 and probably not loaded down with a lot of spare electrons.

Anyway, I'll stop speculating until I do some more work.
-Steve

[Ghst]

Hey Tek, would you believe the white plasma worms can be trapped inside the plastic container of the tube? Kinda bouncing around and some going circular around inside the Plastic Jar?

[Ghst]

I'm Back!

Right after I signed off Friday, Due to the Severe Thunderstorms we experienced here, I was unable to get back on the internet until now. A spike from a Lightening strike came in on the cable, frying my modem and also burned my Ethernet Card. But all is ok now the motherboard's built in card still works fine. The Cable tech had to give me another modem. Seems when they installed the original modem they did not plug the Ethernet cable into the surge protectors I provided. all though the PC, Monitor and the modem were plugged into the surge protectors, the the lightening strike came in on the TV cable into the modem through the Ethernet cable from modem to the Ethernet card.
I've read the back postings, and I should say that I do take all precautions to assure my safety. If I get fried to a crisp from finding the uncontrollable cascade of electrons from radiant event, Be it known to all that with my last breath I'll be saying "YO", "Adrian", "I Did It!!".
No one has to cheer me on, to do what I'm doing. I love doing this and I'm my own biggest fan!

[Aaron]

circuit comments

Steve,

Sometimes C2 in that particular video would drop to only 900 and sometimes to 1-200 so it wasn't too consistent but the effect was consistent. I think things would smooth out having the event repeat at a higher frequency.

It seems that electrons would have to come from the HV rod to the grid in this setup but the coil seems to charge different than a typical cap discharge and I'm not so sure it is normal electron current. It is definitely something that allows the coil to charge and with the effect, the cap discharges as if the coil isn't even there to offer any resistance or impedance.

Anyway, this would mean that at the HV rod, if that is where the electrons are coming from, voltage and "electrons" are moving in one direction while the current moves in two directions at the same time on the HV rod.

On that particular setup, there was no switch at the LV rod as it was closed. The event happened whenever C2 was high enough when there was a pulse from the ignition coil synchronized to collide and both the HV rod and C2 moved to the LV rod so the "electrons" could have easily come from the LV rod and not the HV rod, possibly.

I don't know if the electrons even know what they're doing. lol

More and more I see too much evidence that the whole electron model in electric circuits is falling apart rapidly. I know it doesn't hold up in many of these circuits already and I'm not so sure it is even accurate in conventional closed loop circuits.

[stevend]

Whether or not you have C1, if an ignition coil is used for example, it is definitely charged with pulsed spikes.

Hi Aaron,
I spent some more time at it today and now I can see the same. In your video whenever the radiant event occured, C2 would drop from 1000V to around 500V. Since C2 is positive on the side connected to the coil and the grid, that means that during the radiant event electrons flowed to that side. For that to happen the electrons must have come from the HV rod. That would explain why at lower voltage, electrons arc from the grid to the HV rod, the grid has sharper edges than the rod and so breakdown happens relatively easily from grid to rod. But to break down from rod to grid takes a much higher voltage, and so happens only after a build-up period. Of course, the breakdown voltage would be lower than normal because of all the ionization going on in the tube.

My point, though, is that a Van de Graaff machine is constantly sucking electrons from the HV rod so the rod will never get to break down. With a pulsing power supply, when the pulse is off, if the HV rod is at its breakdown voltage at the time then it can breakdown and send electrons to the grid.

I still want to stick with a high voltage, low current power supply, so I'll probably introduce a spark gap between the Van de Graaff machine and C1 to get the pulsing. I'll put a diode in there too to prevent oscillations.
-Steve

[stevend]

Hi Marcoz,
We've been having a lot of humidity here today. Luckily my Van de Graaff machine is fairly immune. The ionization going on inside the Gray tube could be affected.

I did play around with my ignition coil power supply and my big 4kV, 4uF and 5kV, 5uF oil capacitors today. All the circuit values were pretty much the same as in Aaron's video except for the grid was a perforated metal instead of mesh. However, I let C1 get to around 300V (measured) and then shut off the power supply. When I discharged C1, the arc I got was scary enough. I don't think I want to use these capacitors as C1 and C2. If I found 300V at 4uF that scary, I'd hate to work with 1000V in C2 at 4uF. I'll leave that to others more courageous and stick to my Van de Graaff machine and my 340 picofarad homemade C2.
-Steve

[Aaron]

dc input

I do wonder if I should be using a pulsing power supply. i.e. Should the input to the circuit be a high voltage, DC spike? Or is it okay that the only spikes that happen are a result of the spark gap between the HV and LV rods and the arcing in the gap between the HV rod and the grid?

Hi Steve,

Whether or not you have C1, if an ignition coil is used for example, it is definitely charged with pulsed spikes.

I have a 5kv "ion pump supply" and it pulses as well.

My personal preference is an ignition coil since Gray seemed to be big on them.

So I think the input to the circuit should be HV DC spikes.

[Marcoz]

I do wonder if I should be using a pulsing power supply. i.e. Should the input to the circuit be a high voltage, DC spike? Or is it okay that the only spikes that happen are a result of the spark gap between the HV and LV rods and the arcing in the gap between the HV rod and the grid?

-Steve

Hello Steve
It should always be High Voltage DC.
Waiting untill it fires due to enough voltage potential diffrence between the elements, is similar to the brute force methode Tesla used.

In a well designed tube, like Gray's, the circuit is switched by capacitance at a constant rate, If input voltage is stable.
The chance of someone building a tube of the correct values for the first time, is limited, but even the brute force methode can show the basic effect.
There are certain calculations to be taken into account, relating to Grid-Anode capacity's, which is being determined by the spacing and dimentions of the elements.
Even humidity plays a great,Great role.
Gray explained it by saying something about lightning being stronger close to the ground.
The frequency of my circuit change a lot whenever i breathe at it

Marcoz.

[Marcoz]

Hallo
Can I have some question about power source of HV ?
I am using MOT so on secondary winding I have about 2200VAC it is rectified 3100VDC. I am using voltage multiplier so I get about 6200VDC.
In my country we have ignition coils that can produce up to 30kV. If I want to charge 4000VDC capacitor I cannt go over this voltage level 4000VDC. If I want to use this ignition coil with 30kV I need to have protection spark gap which guarantee only 4kV level not more.
Or there is another kind of ignition coils which can produce max voltage below 4000V Ghst ?
Thank for anyhow advice
Antena

Hello Antenna

If you use a overshoot gap that is constantly triggerd due to the voltage being too high, this will create an awefull lot of RF noise that can be seen on all lines around the circuit making it un-stable.
There are several ways to charge the capacitors.
You can pulse a big coil and extract it's inductive kickback, which works great to charge caps because the output voltage goes much higher then the input spike.
Or use voltage multipliers, adding and removing stages and adjusting frequency and input voltage untill the desired voltage is reached.

Or you can put in a regulator which regulate power to the ignition coil or flyback so that its output is lower.
Tunning is simple, just turn it up unloaded untill the cap reaches 4Kv and then when it drops too much when loaded, you can turn it up some more.
Monitoring the voltage of the cap can be done by using a simple 10:1 divider so when there is 4000V in the cap, your DMM will show 400Volts.
Small note: Ignition coils can charge low capacity caps rather fast, but when it comes to keeping it charged in a running setup, they usually cannot keep up with the discharge so usually lots of current is needed on the input stage that drives the low resistance primary,it will get hot, can melt or even explode when overdriven too much.
For example i have some ignition coils that are designed for 12Volts, i put in like 30Volts, but i cannot operate it continously without damaging the coil, and it get's really hot too.

Thumbrule spark: 1cm=10Kv
If you do use an overshoot gap just start with one mm then it should fire at a 1000 Volts, then adjust the gap to like 3mm than watch what it does and so you can adjust it by starting with the smalles distance.
When caps are charged over their operating voltage, then can violently explode, a messy and dangerous situation, be carefull.

Don't take any risk and DISCHARGE before modifying your circuit.
4Kv is leathal.

Marcoz.