Electric Motor Secrets

[Jetijs]

Interesting idea, Bryan,
But I think that this will put unwanted pressure in the bearings each pulse and that will create friction and wear the bearings out real soon.
That's my opinion, I am not an expert

[adam ant]

could the rotor arms and the stator arms at cut at a slight angle and overlap the arms to make the gap adjustable? you could get it as close as you wanted this way without worrying about overcutting.

[Jetijs]

Thanks Peter,
I cant wait to see the pictures although I understand what you are meaning. I have now some other problems. The guys from the machine shop said that the startor plates are glued together forming kind a cone. I you imagine the startor piece and see at it from the thickness side then it would appear something loke this:
|======/ |===rotor===| \======|
I hope you understand. The upper startor plates are closer to each other by about 0.2mm. This means that the top rotor plates will be closer to the startor piece than the bottom ones. This is not good and I have to figure out how to deal with it, because they cant do the lathe work if the startor isn't right and they do not have the equipment to fix the startor. I already have some thoughts, but this will take time.

[Peter Lindemann]

Pictures Coming....

Jetijs,

Last week I promised some pictures of my coil cores. As it turns out, I just happened to be rewinding my coils with a larger gauge wire, so I could take a new picture with the core both empty and full of wire. I have sent the pictures over to Aaron and he will post them here shortly. This coil is about 250 turns of #12 AWG (similar to 2mm wire).

The plastic end plates are glued right to the sides of the laminated iron cores and the bottom of the winding area is insulated from the laminations, as well.

I hope these pictures help you decide how to handle the coil winding process.

Peter

[nali2001]

Old books

That book is to be found here:
(It's by Steinmetz btw) Live Search

Anyway here you can find thousands and thousands of old (from 1800>) books all free to view and download. Here you can find so much of the good stuff you won't believe.
Live Search
Or:
Live Search
Regards,
Steven

[Aaron]

awesome quote

Here I read a sentence from the book titled "Theory and Calculations of Electrical Circuits" published in 1917:

Thanks for posting this Elias...very RICH indeed!

I love the older books!

[Aaron]

looking great!

That looks great Jetijs!

This goes to show that without the necessary tools to do the job it is difficult for serious progress to be made.

[adam ant]

ok, i understand that, i was thinking that the BEMF could be caught with a bifilar wind on two of the arms (opposite each other) with the back EMF being diverted the to the other two coils. then couple that with an external generator coil. (located on the opposite side of the stator coil)
but i see that the BEMF still wouldnt be stopped from travelling back through the innitial trigger wire... hmmm could diodes be used to block BEMF or deflect it backwards?


sorry, im thinking outloud. sometimes i sit and stare at my motors for hours, taking them apart, marking them with pencils, reassembling them, turning them on and off... until ideas pop into my head. i want to make 100% sure of what i intend to do before i start altering this motor... it is the only one i have. if i had money, i could test each of these ideas, but i don't

thanks for the explanation.

bryan

[Peter Lindemann]

TRUE, but.....

if each of the "X" arms had its own coil, and a commutator was set to engage each arm (in turn) with the stator, there would be MASSIVE amounts of torque generated in this, all from one little "spike".

Bryan,

It's true that the torque can be increased with coils on the rotor, but then you have TWO MAGNETIC FIELDS interacting with each other, creating cross inductions, and the dreaded "BACK EMF". At that point, you have a conventional motor again.

The simplest way to avoid this is to only use one magnetic field at a time. The "power-to-weight" ratio of the motor is a little lower, but the over-all efficiency is higher, and the COP is much higher.

We are purposely sacrificing the benefit of "high power in a small package" for "high power in a medium sized package" with much higher efficiency and COP.

Peter

[adam ant]

if each of the "X" arms had its own coil, and a commutator was set to engage each arm (in turn) with the stator, there would be MASSIVE amounts of torque generated in this, all from one little "spike".

[Peter Lindemann]

Lookin' Good

Hi Peter,
my parts are now ready. I did not post for so long, because my lathe broke down and I had to order some custom made screws to hold the plates together and that took some time. Now all the plates have some layers of varnish on them and the last layer also acts as glue and holds these plates together. Now I just need to drill a bigger hole in the X rotor middle to fit on the shaft tight. Also I need to do some lathe work to fit the rotor into the startor piece, but since my lathe is broken, I will have to get this job done by a local craftsman in his shop. This will take some time as he is always busy Here's a picture:


Thanks
Gatis

Jetijs,

This looks very good. Here are a few suggestions for your next steps.

Consider sandwiching the X rotor between two plastic wheels. This will help keep your fingers out of the assembly when it is running, and give you a greater width to mount to the shaft. This will help maintain a perfectly perpendicular mounting. A stepped flange can be left on both plastic wheels so a set screw can be used to tighten the rotor to the shaft. I do not recommend a "press fit" of the X onto the rotor. In a prototype like this, everything should be left adjustable.

Next, create a plastic frame at the back of the stator to hold the wire coil in place. As the coil is wound, it needs to be supported. I've got some systems like this. I'll try to get some pictures posted to show you what I mean.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[Peter Lindemann]

Great Quote!!!!!

Well,

Here I read a sentence from the book titled "Theory and Calculations of Electrical Circuits" published in 1917:

"Investigations and calculations dealing with one form of
energy only, as electromagnetic energy, or mechanical energy,
usually are relatively simple and can be carried out with very
high accuracy.Difficulties, however, arise when the calculation
involves the relation between several different forms of energy,
as electric energy and mechanical energy. While the elementary
relations between different forms of energy are relatively simple,
the calculation involving a transformation from one form of
energy to another, usually becomes so complex, that it either can
not be carried out at all, or even only approximate calculation
becomes rather laborious and at the same time gives only a low
degree of accuracy. In most calculations involving the trans-
formation between different forms of energy, it is therefore
preferable not to consider the relations between the different
forms of energy at all, but to use the law of conservation of energy
to relate the different forms of energy, which are involved."

They have not realized that magnetic energy is not created by electricity and it is a sibling that exists with any electron flow. Thus magnetic fields are not created, but they exist. And we do not "convert" magnetic energy to mechanical, but we use it as a natural force to do mechanical work. The law of energy conservation may be true, but I don't think that any "conversion" takes place in here, that's why they think that it is complex and cannot therefore be calculated.

Elias

Elias,

This is a great quote. You see, once in a while, in the old books, you'd find an HONEST author who would admit that actually measuring and calculating "energy conversions" doesn't work. I love the author's term here, that it gives "a low degree of accuracy." Then he says that invoking the "Law of Conservation" is simply used as a cover story!

CORRECT!!!

Its like saying that the REAL answer is so complicated to calculate, that everyone should forget about it and go with the IMAGINARY answer.

Its always fun to find it in print.

OK folks. Wake up! Energy Conversions are VERY elastic and COP>1 is allowed by NATURE, if you get the GEOMETRY right.

Thanks for sharing this.

Peter

[Jetijs]

Steven,
that's why I will have this job done by professionals

[nali2001]

Looking good

Hi Jetijs,
Good work man. Only one word of 'warning', It is very likely that drilling a hole through the X rotor will not be very precise. Drills tend to wobble and 'search' their own way. You could be a few tenth of a degree off easily. Another method is called "Boring" in machining terms. It is a precise way of making exact holes.

Well like I said, very good work and keep us updated.
Thanks for showing.

Kind regards,
Steven

[elias]

A quote from one of the old books!!

Well,

Here I read a sentence from the book titled "Theory and Calculations of Electrical Circuits" published in 1917:

"Investigations and calculations dealing with one form of
energy only, as electromagnetic energy, or mechanical energy,
usually are relatively simple and can be carried out with very
high accuracy.Difficulties, however, arise when the calculation
involves the relation between several different forms of energy,
as electric energy and mechanical energy. While the elementary
relations between different forms of energy are relatively simple,
the calculation involving a transformation from one form of
energy to another, usually becomes so complex, that it either can
not be carried out at all, or even only approximate calculation
becomes rather laborious and at the same time gives only a low
degree of accuracy. In most calculations involving the trans-
formation between different forms of energy, it is therefore
preferable not to consider the relations between the different
forms of energy at all, but to use the law of conservation of energy
to relate the different forms of energy, which are involved."

They have not realized that magnetic energy is not created by electricity and it is a sibling that exists with any electron flow. Thus magnetic fields are not created, but they exist. And we do not "convert" magnetic energy to mechanical, but we use it as a natural force to do mechanical work. The law of energy conservation may be true, but I don't think that any "conversion" takes place in here, that's why they think that it is complex and cannot therefore be calculated.

Elias