Electric Motor Secrets

[Malinany]

Thanks, I will come back later.

[Donald Haas]

speed control

Hi Robert49,

Thanks for posting the speed control.

Not many people posting.

I would like to get a large suitable motor to convert.

My winch motor is designed originally for very short windings and very high amps.

I was able to price laser cut laminations, to my specs for a 6.5"D rotor,and 11" stator, 2" thick for $1300.
Not a bad price even though steep for an experiement.
The laminates are .025" thick, industry standards regarding type of steel and insulation.
That would be 80 of each.

I've got a mill drill laithe (big smithy) and maybe we could colaborate.

Donald

[Donald Haas]

Winch Motor Conversion

Hi All,

I got a surplus (new) "deep china" series wound winch motor to use as a test bed for the RA motor.
The round rotor had 23 segments so I made it into a 2 pole rotor with about 5 segments per pole.
Like a bar instead of round. Removed all windings from the rotor except some #8 or 10 wire is imbedded in the laminations of the rotor.
These wires are not connected and cannot function as a "winding".

The total resistance of the 4 series coils was .1ohms. They look like #8 or 6 strips that fit on the bobbins.
The bobbins are cast metal and are bolted to the case. It seems to me that the case is the stator.

The bobbins are so small that I could only get 18ft of #20 wire on each one for my windings. Single strand.

To make the story shorter: it is running with a mosfet for each pair of coils and switched with IR LED's that send 12v to the mosfets when the beam is broken.
Runs very quiet. Not too hot at about 20v and 4amp.
It is easy to take energy out for battery charging. "split the (+)".

A pair of golf cart batts are hooked up now for charging. Havn't tested it much yet. Don't know if my setup will last that is inside the motor.

Interesting to note:
When drawing power to charge a batt it uses a little less amperage, and the rpm increases a little also.

My stator rotor gaps are poor at best and if I continue with this then would need to have laminations lazer cut for stator and rotor, or
have machined pure cast iron for the same purpose.
The objective would be to have very small gaps in the .002" range per pole for the best torque.

Thanks for being here,

Donald

[Robert49]

Hi guys!

Thought I'd share this with you.
This is a speed control for one of my rotary attraction motors.

Fun to experiment!

Robert

[mbrownn]

This makes sense

[Donald Haas]

Smc

Hi All,
Read this on the web by a UK professer.

Good for me to consider.

"Normally, motor is made from lamination sheets which are punched into desired dimension and shape. Each lamination sheet allows the magnetic flux to flow on its 2D plane and this effectively creates a 2D flux path. There is another type of soft magnetic material available in the form of coated powder iron. This material is known as dielectromagnetics or soft magnetic composite (SMC). When SMC material is used to make an electric motor, the material is pressed at high pressure in a die which resemble the shape of the motor. The motor produced using SMC material have isotropic characteristic which enable the distribution of magnetic flux in 3D.
The concept of 3D flux path SR motor is shown in Figure 12. By using SMC material, the flux path is no longer restricted to the plane since SMC exhibits isotropic characteristic. The new 3D flux path is shown by the dotted line in Figure 12. The 3D flux path is effectively shorter than the flux path in a lamination sheet. This has several advantages and in term of the magnetic circuit of the motor, less MMF is required to energise the motor due to the shorter flux path."

[Donald Haas]

Junior member

Hard to imagine what we will be expected to bear when Rick becomes a Senior member.

Ignorance and arrogance are eternally ugly.

Your Brother in Christ!

Edit:

I posted the first part after reading Rick F's bashing of Dr Peter, early in this thread.
Rick has a long history of over the top egotism and non Christian behavior.
He told me personally that his christian ministry was more important to him than
his other activities. I have bitten my tongue for years when his behavior is very wrong.
This time I failed.

I've built many devices for about 10 years and I've just finished going through this thread and planning to build "one".

I've been reading today at this site for about 10 hours and and I'm very grateful for the guys, and Grace that are posting.

Keepin' on,

donald

[chainmailleman]

Bifilar coils

Bifilar coils, their strength vs normal coils, and series and parallel configurations.

The wire is a resistor. Assuming the length of the windings is the same in a bifilar coil, when hooked up in parallel the resistance of the wire is DIVIDED by 2 (2 resistors in parallel is half the rating), when hooked in series the resistance of the wire is DOUBLED (2 resistors in series is doubled resistance). When the bifilar coil is hooked up in series, the power draw is 1/4 of that in parallel.

A video by username: Jupy921 on youtube demonstrates this concept. It can be found at this link: Bifilar coil's magnetic field strength vs. a normal coil's field - YouTube (I am froddofromtheshire).

If you do the math you will find a parallel wound parallel connected coil is 8 times stronger per watt than a single strand coil for the same number of turns. A parallel wound, series connected coil is 62.5 times stronger than the parallel connected coil. The series connected coil is 500 times stronger than a single strand coil for the same number of turns.

The voltage between the turns is just as important as the amps per turn as found by the formula (volts/turns) X (amps/turns) = actual power or stored energy in the coil. You can also find the same number by total magnetization X total power applied to the coil. (total magnetization is found by magnetization/time = voltage)

In summary: the parallel wound series connected bifilar coil produces more magnetic field PER WATT than a single wound coil, or a parallel wound parallel connected coil.

Connect your bifilar coils in series for a stronger field strength for a lower applied power in watts.

[Blargus]

Thanks robert, yes it does help! Very cool. Would like to do something like it but I think I need more electronics education first. What type of motor already has the iron core, is that a squirrel cage type A/C motor? And also when are you going to put it all back into the dishwasher?

[Robert49]

That looks awesome robert49 ! If you don't mind can I ask what modifications you did to the motor besides the timing wheel? Great video, Electric Motor Secrets, I don't have much electronics experience and I could follow along pretty well!

Hi Blargus!
Well I removed all the wires on the stator and re-wired with bigger gauge and if you look at my previous pictures, you'll see that I now have three sets of 4 coils in series connected "north-south-north-south" (more powerfull than with same poles) driven by 12 pulses per rotation.
The rotor is also modified from round to a cross shape.

The spikes coming out of this motor are over 3000 volts when driven at 173 volts. The motor now runs at 12000 rpm at this voltage and I run a 180watt 24volt motor at 6000 rpm on the energy coming out of it.
The rotary attraction motor and the bearings stay cool even at that speed.

Hope this helps.

Fun to experiment!
Robert

[Blargus]

That looks awesome robert49 ! If you don't mind can I ask what modifications you did to the motor besides the timing wheel? Great video, Electric Motor Secrets, I don't have much electronics experience and I could follow along pretty well!

[Robert49]

Nice Work Robert

I wonder how this new motor specs out on Braking HP and Torque to power consumption ratios

Thanks for sharing your research

Thanks Harvey.
I will do the braking test eventually and report on it.
But I tryed something crazy with my attraction motor.
I connected a 96,000uf cap and a 24v rated 10.5a 180w at 2500rpm motor on the output .
When I run my motor at 150v 1a (6500rpm),the 24 volt motor runs at 3100rpm and when I put a load on my motor, the 24v motor accelerates.(more energy coming out).
Then if I put some load on the 24v motor, it discharges the cap and slowes down (amp draw rises because of counter EMF), but no change on my attr motor.

I tryed the same except this time I put my big rotary attraction motor instead of the 24v motor.
The difference is that when I put a load on my big rotary attraction motor, it slows down, the amps go down and the voltage on my cap rises.
No change on the smaller rotary attraction motor .

Fun to experiment.

Robert

[Harvey]

Nice Work Robert

I wonder how this new motor specs out on Braking HP and Torque to power consumption ratios

Thanks for sharing your research

[Robert49]

Hi Robert, that looks impressive!
Thank you for sharing
Jetijs

Hi Jetijs.
I love to experiment.
My earliest motor was a magnet motor generator that used 300 watts input at 120 volts and gave me back just the same while running at 6500 rpm with quite a bit of torque.
Unfortunatly it exploded because i used plexyglass for the rotor.

This new motor is part of a motor-generator based on the n-machine or Faraday disk.
I will post the results as soon as I have them.


Robert

[Jetijs]

Hi Robert, that looks impressive!
Thank you for sharing
Jetijs