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  • Thealin

    Hello Thaelin,

    Be sure your resistance is not too low, under about 1OHM is generally too low.

    A short circuit is a short circuit and has high demands from all of the components including your battery and your wire, and while the motor may run well with so much magnetism generated with some help of the high amperage, I believe you will also run into heating issues, IF your resistance is under about that 1 ohm mark.

    Magnetism is our call sign, not amperage for HER.

    If the OHMS are too low then maybe you could do bifilar of 24AWG which should give about 30% more resistance per strand. Wire Chart Expect about a 40% increase (total, going from 22AWG to 24AWG) in resistance because you will be able to fit a few extra turns in your armature slots.

    A resistance of 1.2-1.6OHMs has been noted and should be a good value to aim for.

    Best wishes,
    matt

    Comment


    • UFO,
      I am about to get my motor up and running today, and was wondering what tests you think I should do that would adequately demonstrate that this motor does something special? I have both a controlled power supply (voltage up to 12 volts and amperage up to three amps.) I have a variety of 12 volt batteries from 3 amp hours up to 120 amp hour batteries.

      I can measure RPM's
      I can measure heat.
      I can measure amps in and out and voltage in and out.
      I can measure starting voltage on batteries and ending voltage on batteries.
      I can measure (rather crudely, but still a measure) torque, using an actual torque wrench...sick it on the end of the shaft and brace the handle against the table and turn the motor on. (Better know which way your motor is going to rotate or you might have a flying torque wrench, or at least a nice "club" that will pound the crap out of something as it spins around 180 degrees.) The indicator on the wrench will swing over measuring foot pounds of torque the motor is putting out. If you video the result and slow it down, you can get a very accurate idea of what it says...which may or may not be an accurate measure of what the motor is capable of, but you can compare it to an unmodified motor very easily. All that is needed is grinding a couple flat spots on one end of the shaft (of each motor you want to test) to fit a socket that will go on the torque wrench. Lots of us back yard mechanics have done things similar to this, and the nice thing about it is that there is no measuring of diameter of wheels multiplied by the length of arm "a" divided by some third number to get you all confused, or create a margin for error.

      What I am trying to say I guess, is that we need to develop some standardized measurements that tell us whether or not we have been successful in building what we are supposed to be building, and lay out what the EXPECTED results should be. So far we have NOTHING like that as far as I can see. So I am looking for some direction here.

      Should this motor have more torque?
      Should it run at the same (or higher RPM's ) on the same amp draw?
      Should it run at the same RPM's for a given voltage with LOWER amp draw?
      Should the supply battery remain at the same voltage throughout the length of a long test run or actually go UP?
      Should I be running this on a battery or a power supply?
      Should it do MORE than one of these things I have mentioned?

      I am not sure WHAT I am looking to see happen with my testing here.
      And I want to be able to publish some results that are meaningful. I am more than happy to rewind my motor if I have made any construction errors, but I want to have the data to show that this thing works or doesn't work when I conclude the build on this motor, and I am willing to work with you to make sure I have everything exactly right before submitting any kind of data. All I search for is the truth.

      Dave
      “Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
      —Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

      Comment


      • Hello Turion

        Originally posted by Turion View Post
        UFO,
        I am about to get my motor up and running today, and was wondering what tests you think I should do that would adequately demonstrate that this motor does something special? I have both a controlled power supply (voltage up to 12 volts and amperage up to three amps.) I have a variety of 12 volt batteries from 3 amp hours up to 120 amp hour batteries.

        I can measure RPM's
        I can measure heat.
        I can measure amps in and out and voltage in and out.
        I can measure starting voltage on batteries and ending voltage on batteries.
        I can measure (rather crudely, but still a measure) torque, using an actual torque wrench...sick it on the end of the shaft and brace the handle against the table and turn the motor on. (Better know which way your motor is going to rotate or you might have a flying torque wrench, or at least a nice "club" that will pound the crap out of something as it spins around 180 degrees.) The indicator on the wrench will swing over measuring foot pounds of torque the motor is putting out. If you video the result and slow it down, you can get a very accurate idea of what it says...which may or may not be an accurate measure of what the motor is capable of, but you can compare it to an unmodified motor very easily. All that is needed is grinding a couple flat spots on one end of the shaft (of each motor you want to test) to fit a socket that will go on the torque wrench. Lots of us back yard mechanics have done things similar to this, and the nice thing about it is that there is no measuring of diameter of wheels multiplied by the length of arm "a" divided by some third number to get you all confused, or create a margin for error.

        What I am trying to say I guess, is that we need to develop some standardized measurements that tell us whether or not we have been successful in building what we are supposed to be building, and lay out what the EXPECTED results should be. So far we have NOTHING like that as far as I can see. So I am looking for some direction here.

        Should this motor have more torque?
        Should it run at the same (or higher RPM's ) on the same amp draw?
        Should it run at the same RPM's for a given voltage with LOWER amp draw?
        Should the supply battery remain at the same voltage throughout the length of a long test run or actually go UP?
        Should I be running this on a battery or a power supply?
        Should it do MORE than one of these things I have mentioned?

        I am not sure WHAT I am looking to see happen with my testing here.
        And I want to be able to publish some results that are meaningful. I am more than happy to rewind my motor if I have made any construction errors, but I want to have the data to show that this thing works or doesn't work when I conclude the build on this motor, and I am willing to work with you to make sure I have everything exactly right before submitting any kind of data. All I search for is the truth.

        Dave
        Hey Dave,

        That is great you are almost finished!

        The testings on this Machines (if we all want to go by "the book")...We will have to Split them in Two Parts...
        1-Are All the typical and standardized as per NEMA recommendations ...BUT Related in My Machines to strictly INPUT, Plus Power Take Off Capacity (Torque-Armature Power) exactly like we do on a Symmetric Motor...and exactly as MR. Peter Lindemann has done in His great video "Electric Motor Secrets"...Now Turion, if you have not seen Peter's excellent video, I highly recommend it, as He shows in great detail How to perform and even construct an excellent Dynamo-meter (Not your "Raw" Torque Wrench dangerous scenario, pls don't!...I don't want you to get hurt!!...I need you!... ) ...plus all the rigorous calculations related to Armature Power, RPM's, COP...Watts, Torque and Power conversions...I mean..all is there to go by...Turion, I use that Video all times like a "Bible".

        Here we will find some "weird" spec's...that will not "match" with Classic Physics Standards...Like a very High Torque blended in a "Ascending Curve" together with RPM's...Where they are completely Directly Proportional...and ...Our Classic Electrodynamics is gonna go...¿?...yes they are proportional...not Inverse .

        Also Machine Input is going to show a very High Amperage, as also a Full measurement from "Source Value Total" in Potential (Voltage)...Like Machine is "consuming" all that voltage...Not true readings, None of them at all.
        Now this occurs when feeding Machine "LINEAR"...straight form Source...it is understood, that if We administer the Source by Square DC Pulse...we will have a more accurate measurement. And this is the way I have recommended to do when testing..Using both ways (Linear-Pulsed), and writing results...at V,A and RPM'S...

        You Test this Machines from a "Previously Measured Battery"...NOT , NEVER from a Power Source!...A Power Source will NEVER show either Decay or Gain of Voltage-Amperage, as it has a Built-In Processing Circuitry dedicated JUST to balance output currents-voltages, keeping it as steady as possible...so it is Completely Nonsensical to use them for testing Charging Capacity, nor REAL consumption from ANY Machine at all.

        After having them running on large amounts of time, Battery must be left at rest, at least 20 minutes...then measure battery...

        A set of Diodes should be set between Battery (when feeding linear, and understood to allow flow from Battery to Machine, not reversed) and Machine Input...then read before (just Battery Voltage), and after diodes (Mixed Currents from Batt and Reverse feedback, so this reading should be Higher)
        Checking Temperature is a requirement when doing this...basically to send infrared laser pointer sensor right at the Armature Coils (reason why an Open Motor is better than a closed one... )

        NOW, Where it RADICALLY changes the way we measure this Motors is when reading OUTPUT...there are two two ways...so far given.

        1-Straight from Output Terminals (Raw Voltage Out from just One Pair of Coils "per Momentum" of contact via Generator Brushes)
        2- Using the Jumper between bottom Input-output terminals, while still feeding same way as Input. (Diagram Below)

        Now here , Peter's video comes to play...
        Please Calculate for me...as Peter does...The Effective Armature Power...which is Ev(Input Source)-Ec (C-EMF)
        Then Calculate COP, which is Effective Armature Power, divided Ec...
        Ok?

        [IMG][/IMG]


        Now there are more tests, and excellent ones...but There need to be Two Identical Machines to make them...I know so far you got just one...but for now is ok...


        Regards


        Ufopolitics
        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-03-2012, 06:34 PM.
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

        Comment


        • By two identical machines do you mean two identical modified machines? I have two more motors on order, plus I have two unmodified ones.

          I have all of Peter's videos and have watched them many times, so I know the tests you are talking about on his first motor secrets DVD.

          I will see if I can find a couple scales to do the measurement with today.

          Dave
          Last edited by Turion; 08-03-2012, 07:48 PM.
          “Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
          —Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

          Comment


          • Turion...

            Originally posted by Turion View Post
            By two identical machines do you mean two identical modified machines? I have two more on order, plus I have two unmodified ones.

            I have all of Peter's videos and have watched them many times, so I know the tests you are talking about on his first motor secrets DVD.

            I will see if I can find a couple scales to do the measurement with today.

            Dave

            Dave,

            Please read again, as I edited some more...to Calculate there...

            Yes Identical wound Modified Machines...

            Scales I got them at a nice price at Walmart (Sporting Goods-Fishing Section)...get the round type, like analog meters...the linear ones they have are cheaper (and same exact type-brand)at any Bait-Tackle shop...


            Regards


            Ufopolitics
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Ufopolitics,

              You may find the Paul Babcock Magnetic Energy Secrets information filmed at the recent BEDINI-LINDEMANN 2012 Science and Technology Conference applicable here when measuring your devices.

              Magnetic Energy Secrets by Paul Babcock

              peacepenguin has done a good job and summarized some information found in the video here:

              Originally posted by peacepenguin View Post
              The main theme of the Magnetic Energy Secrets is that there is no correlation between the AMOUNT of magnetic flux generated and the input power consumed.

              Watt-second = Joule. Joule is actual power consumed.

              An easy way to visualize this is to look at an 8ft length of 2AWG wire.

              Connect the two ends of the wire to a 12v Battery and 2ohm resistor in series.

              Now current is flowing through the 8ft wire at 12v. If the resistance of the circuit is 2.01ohms then by ( Volts=Amps*Resistance ) we see that about 6 Amps is flowing through the 8ft length of wire. In 8ft, we have 5.97amps of magnetic flux all along the 8ft conductor.

              Now extend the length of wire from 8ft to 16ft. The ohm resistance of the whole circuit will not increase linearly with length. By doubling length we have only increased resistance by .01 ohm of copper resistance, which is negligible.

              Now do the same experiment, 12v Battery hooked to the 16ft length of 2AWG wire. 12v = Amps * 2.02 -> 5.94amps

              But now, for the same amperage and voltage, just LONGER CONDUCTOR, we have nearly DOUBLED the amount of magnetic flux that exists outside the 16ft conductor. By simply doubling the length of the conductor.

              This is also applicable to the workings of John Bedini's SSG motor. By simply using a large inductance coil, and pulsing it just for a tiny moment in time, the flux builds around the coil. It is then immediately removed from the power supply which causes the flux around the coil to collapse. If the wire in the coil is long enough, you will receive back more magnetic energy from the wire, than you had to put there to create it.

              These concepts are also visible in Peter Lindemann's Electric Motor Secrets Part II (2). There, Peter says you can make a no back-emf/reduced back-emf motor, simply by pulsing a 12V DC motor, with a 120V impulse. Because a 12V motor is also a 12V generator, the back emf is in the 8-12V range, which is not nearly enough to significantly reduce the input voltage of 120V. The instantaneous torque developed by a 120V impulse is plenty to give the motor a "kick" even though your not running a DC motor on DC anymore.

              I think there are profound connections to be made to this concept of magnetic flux "appearing" around a wire with current moving through it. You pay for the current, not the flux that shows up around the wire. These concepts shown by Babcock can used to analyze Bedini's SSG, and the Lockridge type motor that Peter has shown in EMS part 2.

              My understanding of the workings of these devices is becoming more clear everyday. Time to start building I think.

              -Peacepenguin
              Stay on course and never give up!

              IndianaBoys

              Comment


              • Thanks Indiana Boys

                Originally posted by IndianaBoys View Post
                Ufopolitics,

                You may find the Paul Babcock Magnetic Energy Secrets information filmed at the recent BEDINI-LINDEMANN 2012 Science and Technology Conference applicable here when measuring your devices.

                Magnetic Energy Secrets by Paul Babcock

                peacepenguin has done a good job and summarized some information found in the video here:



                Stay on course and never give up!


                IndianaBoys

                Hey IB,

                Thanks!..I will read article, as I will also get that Book...it seems very interesting.

                Now I wanted to say I did read your past comment related to your TorqMaster arriving and needing the amount of turns...as also another Member there...
                Ok, I have not been able to wind that Motor as per the new P12 Diagram...sorry, no time yet, therefore, I can't give you an exact number...as I have not tested that Diagram in Real Lab yet...It turn out like a winner on Paper...and CAD...but I am never sure, till I face the Real Facts of Real Models...

                If you guys want to go for it...please do it, You will have to play "by ear"...Member Sebosfato is doing it...however, I would say it will take between 10-15 turns of 20-23 gauge...18 will be less...so I really have to seat down and figure this out...



                Warm Regards


                Ufopolitics
                Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-03-2012, 08:39 PM.
                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                Comment


                • Hello again Lidmotor!

                  Originally posted by Lidmotor View Post
                  Thanks Ufo for all your efforts on this amazing quest. I have done my best to keep up with all that is going on here but I decided to go backwards instead of forward. I built a simple "learning tool" to really understand the dynamic of how the basic machine works. Several guys have asked for a super simple build and I need one also. I used your diagram shown at about the 11 minute mark in your "Enlightenment" video as a guide. It is just two coils, two magnets, and four contact points. For simplicity the coils are air core. It is just a rough build and it doesn't work right but I wanted something very simple to work with to able to reallly understand what is happening.

                  ----- I also want find that witch and tell her good bye.


                  Asymmetric motor learning tool - YouTube

                  Thanks again for all that you have presented. I understand how much time it takes to do this work. It is time taken away from the rest of your daily life and you never get it back.

                  Lidmotor

                  Hello Lidmotor!

                  I wanted to take this space...to tell you...why your simple two coils rotor is not producing Output and some weird "AC Readings" instead...

                  Ok, You have build a Mechanically great Asymmetrical Machine...Your Coils are independently energized like it is a "most do" on this Systems...you also have isolated collecting Input-Output...all that is great!

                  Now, there is something not visible at plain sight...something that does not belong to our Three Dimensions...but to a Fourth...

                  The Magnetic Field Spectrum's of both Rotor-Armature Coils, defined by their vector (direction) of force.

                  The way you have them there, aligned at exactly same straight "axis"...say at 180 apart one from the other...they will cancel to zero, or to the result of deducting their opposite vectors, if one is greater than other...it could be in one turn...a negative value...at other "momentum" a positive value...depending to Input or Output Momentum of delivery Values, then your meter will read a "kind of an AC Current"...falsely.

                  This Coils, as soon as they loose contact to Input brushes...(turn off stage)...they reverse voltage polarity, as they also reverse their magnetic fields...vectors change radical directions...towards the Input Pair or single Coils being energized...and if they are exactly aligned...they will collapse their flux-magnetic field force, in a front end collision...

                  What could you do?...Deviate one of the Coils Axis (center core) related to the other...at least by 15-30 degrees..then you will have the two vectors not directly facing each others...but deviated by different Bisectors Angle directions.

                  This is how I am able to create this effect to be great at output...as the more away from 180º...the "Intersection Angle"...the better the Output Gain from the opposite naturally generated reversed fields.

                  As this is why a Three Pole arrangement is so successful, since all Axis are exactly apart by 120º.


                  Warm Regards


                  Ufopolitics
                  Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-03-2012, 07:59 PM.
                  Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                  Comment


                  • More work with the learning tool

                    @UFO
                    Thanks for the help and suggestions. I just read your post after working all day and posting a video on my status with the two pole "learning tool". If I had read your post earlier I might not have gone the direction that I did with my "machine". I ended up wiring the two coils in series then winding a second coil right on top of them. It made a very interesting arrangement that might be close to what you showed in your "enlightenment" video at around 11 minutes. I show the thing running here on a capacitor. I guess my next step should be a three pole machine like you suggested to get away from the canceling effect.

                    Asymmetric Machine Learning Tool - YouTube

                    Lidmotor

                    Comment


                    • Hello UFO, your ASYMMETRIC 12P-12COMM TORQMASTER BRUSH-COMM 90 DEGREES DISPLACEMENT diagram with the color coding makes it very clear and understandable how this motor is wound. The key was three NS color bars at the bottom. Now all your asymmetric motor diagrams are making full sense right away. As I have recently joined this forum and your other threads I am trying my best to cover the material as soon as possible. At the same time I am also trying finish radio-shack 5 pole asymm-motor. I like to thank you from bottom of my heart. God Bless You for sharing your vast knowledge of Radiant Energy etc.

                      Regards Lightworker1

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by gsmsslsb View Post
                        Hello Marius
                        I basically cannot watch utube so I am just feeling along in the dark here but I took the chance and watched the 2 tube above and Asymmetric motor learning tool - YouTube.
                        Thats really good and I have wound my 5 pole just like that.
                        Do you have any numbers for your setup in/out etc.
                        Maybe hook the motor and generator together like at the start of lidmotors
                        Asymmetric motor learning tool - YouTube
                        If you can get some numbers would be great.
                        Thanks LV
                        Hi!

                        I have sent you a PM

                        Comment


                        • Hello UFO

                          My drawing was wrong i understood it

                          Check this new one please:




                          Notice that in your 12 pole first drawing the Poles are aligned with the commutator segments and your new drawing with the brushes 90° rotated the commutator segments are aligned to the P1, P2... right between the poles...


                          I noticed that in the later (second drawing 90°) the force acting on the north is same as that acting on the south... at least at the center of the contact.. I meant the angles of south and north are the same considering the magnets center...

                          In my motor the poles are aligned to the commutator segments so to make it with that alignment i would need to rotate the brushes 10° clockwise in my new drawing right?

                          Is it needed?

                          Is it correct now?

                          Thanks again UFO
                          I'm just trying to do my best!

                          Regards

                          Fabio

                          Comment


                          • It should work now Fabio...

                            Originally posted by sebosfato View Post
                            Hello UFO

                            My drawing was wrong i understood it

                            Check this new one please:




                            Notice that in your 12 pole first drawing the Poles are aligned with the commutator segments and your new drawing with the brushes 90° rotated the commutator segments are aligned to the P1, P2... right between the poles...


                            I noticed that in the later (second drawing 90°) the force acting on the north is same as that acting on the south... at least at the center of the contact.. I meant the angles of south and north are the same considering the magnets center...

                            In my motor the poles are aligned to the commutator segments so to make it with that alignment i would need to rotate the brushes 10° clockwise in my new drawing right?

                            Is it needed?

                            Is it correct now?

                            Thanks again UFO
                            I'm just trying to do my best!

                            Regards

                            Fabio


                            Hello Sebosfato,


                            Yes , much better now


                            Yes I did move the Commutator Elements in the 90 degrees brushes. So, did you noticed the perfect straight alignment between P1 (Coils)and P1(Comm Element)?...great...do not worry, it will work on yours...

                            ON YOUR SET:

                            Now P1 (Pair-Coil) must be perfectly opposite to P10 (Pair-Coil), as also P1 (Comm Element) to P10 (Comm Element), meaning at exactly 180 degrees from each others.


                            P1-P10 at 180 degrees contacting Generator Brushes...as also all the other corresponding opposite pairs...P2-P11, P3-P12...So on...whenever is their "Turn"...


                            Yes should work now...come on!!!...I want to see it running!!


                            I know you are doing your best Fabio...


                            Regards


                            Ufopolitics
                            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-04-2012, 05:02 PM.
                            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                            Comment


                            • Beautiful!!

                              Originally posted by Lidmotor View Post
                              @UFO
                              Thanks for the help and suggestions. I just read your post after working all day and posting a video on my status with the two pole "learning tool". If I had read your post earlier I might not have gone the direction that I did with my "machine". I ended up wiring the two coils in series then winding a second coil right on top of them. It made a very interesting arrangement that might be close to what you showed in your "enlightenment" video at around 11 minutes. I show the thing running here on a capacitor. I guess my next step should be a three pole machine like you suggested to get away from the canceling effect.

                              Asymmetric Machine Learning Tool - YouTube

                              Lidmotor

                              Hello Lidmotor!!


                              WOW!!...With your simple two pole asymmetric "learning tool" you are gonna end up making a self runner!!...
                              If you keep going that way...I see that little machine in a Future Museum for Free Energy first devices made!!...

                              Lidmotor, I know it sounds weird...but in your same two pole rotor...if you could do a "15 to 30 degrees" deviation of one Coil center axis from the other...that will do it...without making another three poles rotor ...just make the "tweak" so that it favors your rotation at next turn...

                              The other thing if you could do in your set up, just as you have it on latest video here with dual coils...could you show voltage gain-loose at Super Cap at some "clocked" running time...it will be awesome!



                              Wonderful work!!


                              Many thanks!!


                              Regards


                              Ufopolitics
                              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                              Comment


                              • Very glad you undesrtand it!!

                                Originally posted by Lightworker1 View Post
                                Hello UFO, your ASYMMETRIC 12P-12COMM TORQMASTER BRUSH-COMM 90 DEGREES DISPLACEMENT diagram with the color coding makes it very clear and understandable how this motor is wound. The key was three NS color bars at the bottom. Now all your asymmetric motor diagrams are making full sense right away. As I have recently joined this forum and your other threads I am trying my best to cover the material as soon as possible. At the same time I am also trying finish radio-shack 5 pole asymm-motor. I like to thank you from bottom of my heart. God Bless You for sharing your vast knowledge of Radiant Energy etc.

                                Regards Lightworker1

                                Hello Lightworker!!


                                I am very glad you perfectly understand ...not only the latest diagram but the rest...awesome!

                                Maybe it is because We are both "working for the same Source..."...The Light...


                                Namaste!!


                                Ufopolitics
                                Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-05-2012, 05:11 PM.
                                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                                Comment

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