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  • Must go bigger

    Great pics Ufopolitics,

    I finished modifying the generator head last night. Experience is such a great teacher. The front and back end caps do work so I've got it back together without any fabrication there.

    So I'll need to find a larger size motor to modify to couple this gen head to.
    The treadmill motor is half the size of this generator. Don't think it will have enough torque to spin it up 3000 rpms.

    I'll post some pics later.

    What do you(or anyone) think, I have four old car generators(not alternators) with large commutators 28 bars on each one. It will take some real fabricating but can be done. Or as you said I should go with the four pole PM motor. Which I'll need to purchase.

    wantomake

    Comment


    • Hello Zardox

      Originally posted by Zardox View Post
      Good morning UFO
      Great stuff, looks like a lot of work but I think I am will be ordering one of those motors soon.
      I had a question regarding your comment about going brushless useing diodes and caps. Does that mean that one could then use a AC armature core to rewind or is that way off base?
      You must be one of those Paladeins or however it is spelled sent here to help us remember because I can't see how you are going to be able to enslave us by posting everything for free.
      Hello Zardox,

      LOL... ...You MUST mean "Pleadians"... ...from the Pleiades ...

      You made me laugh!...

      Yes, about a Brushless I wrote before... it is a simple and very new Technology...As an example I have this Mecc Alte Brushless Generator...It has Two Coils at Rotating Stator (Armature)...it is NOT connected to anything physically Ex: No brushes...no slip rings... it just get Induced by Static Exciter Fields...remember, Induction generates within Coil towards outside, so installing a Diode in Parallel, will keep just allowing one polarity orientation at half turn on quadrant, then Cap will feed at the "other side"...and so with other Coil...One is always North, other always South...Now, this Generator does not have a Cap...it has a Varistor to regulate Field Force to remain equal ...

      Now you said "AC Armature Core"...That term is too general...Are you referring to an Universal Motor?...that have commutators-brushes?


      Yes, I am going to ENSLAVE YOU ALL...!!...

      Enslave you, by getting ALL of You addicted to this fascinating Tech...that will brake ALL wrong applied laws...and all SCAMS and COVER UP....
      UP TO NOW...

      So get ready to be Enslaved...


      Regards


      Ufopolitics
      Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2012, 03:06 PM.
      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

      Comment


      • Hi UFO,
        while waiting for my enameled wire I read your news and am totally electrified!!! :-)
        It came as you promized - you / we will leave the toy status.
        Please take as many photographs as possible. You might post them later on but please take them. Pics speak any language available all over the globe.
        Just in case you have some spare minutes to answer in advance:
        How will that Imperial motor be modified for the 2nd commutator? Is there need to modify the main case or can you apply spare parts form Imperial. What about the length of the shaft? We need to have a rough estimation of additional costs for this mod.

        AND: Please take care of you!!!!!
        JohnS
        Last edited by JohnStone; 09-18-2012, 03:28 PM.
        Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

        Comment


        • Imperial Motor 56/28P/4S/4B/56COMM Diagram

          Hello to All,


          Ok, here is the P-28 Diagram to wind that Nice Machine...
          It is based on the same original P-12 Diagram...As also like the Razor P-16...

          Here I am embracing Seven (7) Poles per Coil, so a Pair will comprehend 14 Poles (Half The Circumference), This creates a Huge Throw Out Angle of Impulse based on Repulsion-Attraction at Four Points of Quadrant...Delivering a great Torque and Speed.

          P-1 and P-15 are ON at Motor Brushes(red intermittent line), while P-8 and P-22 are ON at Generating Side(Green intermittent line)...in this "Paused, captured frame momentum"

          Imagine if Turion (Dave) said the Torque on the 16 Poles was so strong He had to tighten all batteries and equipment on his bench...What this "creature" will do?!...

          Yes Dave, please...hold on tight to your underwear...when testing Torque on this one...


          [IMG][/IMG]


          Now, please note that I have set the Timing Arrows at Motor Brushes, (in Magenta color) I have set a "+" and a "-" meaning to set timing backwards(-) or forward (+)...by setting forward, Machine will increase Torque and Speed...yes, both...However, I have also set the Pairs in Magenta indicating those are the Max-Min range you could move up to...so, reverse only could go one pair back...doing it more will be conflicting Bisectors from Stators and Armature to be "Too close" so Motor may hesitate at start...to change direction of Rotation.
          Best is to get it "Forward" reach over the 3600 RPM's...close to 4000...then doing the final speed adjustment with speed controller and with Loads On at Generator.

          Remember that You can NEVER START GENERATOR WITH LOADS ON OR NEVER TURN OFF GENERATOR WITH LOADS ON EITHER!!

          And please People, I really want you to be very careful here, make sure you have tighten and secured all means of Mounting it...this Machine WILL BE VERY Powerful, more than a Gas Engine, so, please I do not want to hear an Accident has Happened to ANYONE HERE!
          As also, This Generators Output 120V/50 Amps...There is enough energy there to shock you and could stop your heart...just like a Defibrillator will, if you get shocked by it...


          SO BE VERY CAREFUL HERE...THIS ARE "BIG TOYS" NOW!!


          Regards to All


          Ufopolitics
          Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2012, 04:17 PM.
          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

          Comment


          • Hello Dear John...

            Originally posted by JohnStone View Post
            Hi UFO,
            while waiting for my enameled wire I read your news and am totally electrified!!! :-)
            It came as you promized - you / we will leave the toy status.
            Please take as many photographs as possible. You might post them later on but please take them. Pics speak any language available all over the globe.
            Just in case you have some spare minutes to answer in advance:
            How will that Imperial motor be modified for the 2nd commutator? Is there need to modify the main case or can you apply spare parts form Imperial. What about the length of the shaft? We need to have a rough estimation of additional costs for this mod.

            AND: Please take care of you!!!!!
            JohnS

            Hello Dear John,


            Yes, I am tired of playing with small toys...

            Modification on this Motor is awesome!
            Shaft is long enough, they sell commutators, brushes, brush mountings...etc,etc.

            [IMG][/IMG]

            Main Frame Body does NOT need to be modified (elongated) except the Brush Housing adapt...which is just to mount the Brushes Board Assembly (without the aluminum casing) on the output shaft end plate, which is solid steel...so drilling some holes, making threads...and using some spacers-insulators...other words, minor work fastener install, John...

            Yes John...We are on it for sure...
            Let's finish this "Game" once and for all...
            So...An Asymmetric Machine WILL BE Turning a Symmetrical Generator...
            Later on we will build Asymmetrical Generators...even better than this one for sure.


            Regards


            Ufopolitics
            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2012, 03:57 PM.
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Big Time Difference

              Originally posted by Turion
              UFO,
              I have had nothing but trouble with my modified Razor scooter motor. It continues to get wires broken when I run it and I can't keep the brushes aligned correctly. It is just not a quality build, and I don't want to post results of testing on something that is not quality, so I am going to rewind another motor which will be much better and I can use it to do all my tests.

              It is a BISON, model 051-203-4025. It is actually MADE by Bison, so you can order parts from them. The reason I chose it is that I already have one, so all I had to do was order a second end cap (which holds the brushes) and all the brush holders and brushes, plus a second commutator. The new end cap will fit on the existing body and I will still have room for the second commutator. Then I have to replace the shaft with a standard shaft from Lowes to get the length I need to stick out through the hole in the new end cap. The motor end caps are square with pre threaded holes so you can easily bolt them down to something to make it solid. The motor has large, easy to work with commutators, two huge brushes, and solid bearings on each end. It will be a very robust motor. It is ALSO 16 pole, so I know how to wind it already. AND, once you get the two end caps solidly bolted down, you can remove the bolts that connect the two end caps to each other and this allows you to rotate the body of the motor (which contains the magnets) to change the timing.

              Here is my question. This motor only has TWO magnets instead of the four that the razor scooter motors have. Will that change the wiring of the armature in any way? I don't see why it should, but this is still a mystery to me as to how to design a motor to incorporate the principles you are talking about here.

              That is the thing I wish you would instruct us in more than anything, and I know you have tried, but what I see is everybody coming to YOU to have YOU figure out the winding pattern of their motor because no one understands how to do it for themselves, and THAT is the knowledge that I believe to be critical.

              Dave

              Hello Dave,

              We were missing You here!!

              Sorry to hear that about the Razor...The thing is You were also disconnecting-connecting wires inside to test it with the 3BGS...and Copper as also Steel...can only be bent certain times before it fatigues-brakes...

              The way of "Making a Motor" is just ONE...You build it/ test it/ and IF everything is just great, then secure everything, epoxy everything, and then put it back together and use it...
              The Commutator tabs, after biting wire must be tapped with a small hammer, or pressed with a big Vise...and leave them alone...
              Normally in Motor Factories they use "FUSORS" that will fuse copper metals (wire-commutator hooks)...but we do not have that tool...

              Oh YES, there IS A BIG DIFFERENCE in a Two Stator-Two Brush System...versus a Four X Four...BIG TIME DIFFERENCE...!!!


              And YES, the windings can NOT be HOOKED the same way to both types...they are completely different machines Dave...
              You have to "go back" to the P-12 and make the Input-Output like that...

              NEVER a 2S/2B will get even NEAR the strength of a 4S/4B...it is "Half" the force and output.

              Dave, to be able to build this technology like I do...You will need the next 10-15 years just dedicated to studying Electrodynamics...My Friend, it is Impossible that I can teach all of you, in a written forum, in a few weeks...for good that I could draw/render diagrams and make videos...and explain myself as best as I have been doing so far...and get You all to FULLY Understand this Technology from A to Z...I only wish I could...

              There are basics theories and Laws on building Motors Generators that most books won't tell...unless they are dedicated to Engineering Schools...as also there are other "Laws" that I found in my search and development of Asymmetric Technology...

              My knowledge comes from many different Sources...Books from Russian Engineers...as also European and American Engineering technologies...I fuse them, I filtered them and got my own results...and this was not done in a "couple of weeks" Dave...

              Besides applying some "not known to Humans"... Pleiadian and other Extra Terrestrial Technologies....

              My suggestion is that you try to reinforce your wires...or rewind them and create a solid tubing main frame for the Razor Motors...it could be Aluminum...and adapt the brush housings nicely and secure...I mean...You have done the worst part...shaft and armature cores-commutators!!

              And what happened with the Dedicated Generator?...did you finish it?..Or their wires came loose also?...

              Regards


              Ufopolitics
              Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2012, 05:56 PM.
              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

              Comment


              • Dave...

                Originally posted by Turion

                But I WILL order whichever motors you think would be best to order for a motor and generator build.
                Dave I don't think you have forgotten our several email conversations we had related to that issue...As a matter of fact You knew before anyone here about the Imperial Motor running a Generator Head, just because I wrote to you about that...How come you forgot?...and are asking again?!

                I thought you have ordered AND HAD THEM BY NOW, those two Motors as you have written here before?

                You wrote "UFO I also spend some budget in getting the Big Motors you told me..."... ?


                But I would rather only do this ONCE, so let me know which is the best choice that you know of. I have had enough of building things that don't quite work the way they should because I bought the wrong thing.

                Dave

                And now you sound like a Grandmother *****ing ...


                Edit: That BISON Motor is a waste of money...It is a 12V, 2S/2B...Small motor you could get in any Junk Yard off the blowers or windshield washer Motors of a Any car...for much less $$
                Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2012, 06:38 PM.
                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                Comment


                • some 'theory'

                  i learned something when testing my dual asymmetrical design over the weekend.
                  i learned it doesn't work as well as Ufopolitics simple 3-pole asymmetrical design.
                  a coil powered to attract itself towards a magnet and away from the other magnet and then allowed to generate power as it passes the pole of the magnet it was attracted to will not generate as it looks like it should. this appears to be because the collapsing field of the coil directly opposes the current the magnet is trying to induce as the coil passes its pole.

                  what i discovered in my dual asymmetrical design is that i could get electric flow out the generator brushes in iether direction just by moving the magnets slightly advanced or slightly retarded...and if the magnets are aligned perfectly then no current will flow out the generator brushes unless iether direction was blocked with a diode...in that case it would flow in the direction permitted by the diode but never as strongly as in the pure asymmetrical design by Ufopolitics

                  this to me is all fairly significant as it means the collapsing field of a coil no longer powered is as powerfull as that same coil at massive speed passing optimal generating angle past a pure pole (dense magnetic lines).
                  so one can see in the original asymmetrical 3-pole the coils field is only allowed to collapse (generate) after it has passed the magnetic pole that would otherwise oppose the collapse. so therefore the coils collapsing field flows through the generator brushes unhindered by dense magnetic field induced opposite flow.
                  and while the coils magnetic field is collapsing unhindered it does so at the right time to assist the rotation of the armature. effectively a single pulse into the coil gets used to attract it towards a magnet, the pulse is turned off as the coil passes the magnet and then the field is allowed to collapse through the generator brushes and while collapsing it mimics what in a standard design would be another pulse of power from a source....just in this case the source is free as it was generated by the original pulse and stored temporarily in the magnetic field of the coil.

                  there are more tests i will hopefuly be doing to reduce the input/output angles of Ufopolitics design and also to offset brush angles so they are no longer 180 degrees. certain brush input/output/idle manipulations may improve the perforformance of the asymmetrical design (or not) but they may have to be instituted while the machine is already running or the machine may have to be manually started.
                  we will see...more testing once i've figured out how to get the brushes on both sides completely indipendant while also having rotatable magnets.

                  below is a picture of the tested designs...please note the dual asymmetrical design is mine not Ufopolitics and i recommend further testing of his asymmetrical design as i have tested my design and found it to conflict with itself.

                  excuse the wall of noob text

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Turion
                    UFO,


                    EDIT: HAving just read your last few posts, would you recommend I just build a different motor for testing and as a generator? I don't want to continue to buy motors, ( I have six of those razor scooter motors and have given up on them.) So if you will tell me what you think is the absolute BEST for both, I will spend the money to get the right stuff the first time. I would rather spend a bunch of money the first time and get it right than do what I have done with these scooter motors all over again. SO if you have "parts list" for what YOU are building, can you share that with us so we know exactly what parts to buy and then we can EXACTLY replicate what you have so we should get EXACTLY the same results?
                    Dave...

                    You have to "keep reading back" as I have ALREADY GIVEN ALL MACHINES part numbers in details, and links...plus color pictures...

                    No one need "specific part numbers lists" like a Commutator Part number?!
                    Once You've got MAIN Motor-Generator Part/Model/Serial Number... ANYONE in the Parts Dept. could help you locate the part you want through their data base...

                    So there is NO PART LIST here Man!...Just need Motor ID Number...they will know from there...

                    Are you from where Turion?...You know exactly that way works here even for any Vehicle Part you need...just give the serial number...or "ID"#

                    So keep reading...


                    Goodbye Dave
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • Now you want me to be...

                      Originally posted by Turion
                      Oops, you are right. I HAVE ordered that motor. I just checked. But it has NOT arrived yet. I order so much stuff, I can't keep track in my head! But I have it all written down.

                      Dave
                      Helloooo!!

                      And now you want me to be "Your Personal Assistant"?!

                      Reminding you of all the steel you have order?...
                      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                      Comment


                      • Hello Ufo

                        Derekvolt here, my question was in some of reproductions of your motor the rotor has been rewound and the stator is magnets. Will this work with a rotor that is standard but an asymmetric stator ?

                        Comment


                        • Warm Waters Discovery...

                          Originally posted by s e t h View Post
                          i learned something when testing my dual asymmetrical design over the weekend.
                          I learned it doesn't work as well as Ufopolitics simple 3-pole asymmetrical design.


                          excuse the wall of noob text


                          Hey Seth,

                          Good try man!!...and good lesson...

                          Now please try this test below...will you?...so you know "a bit more"...


                          [IMG][/IMG]


                          Netica, Gints, Bob French,MachineAlive as others...have done it...

                          It will clear the Phenomena that there IS ANOTHER OPPOSED FLOW to the already existing Opposed flow after Coil goes in "Collapse"...so this Flow is NOW SAME DIRECTION as Your Input, BUT at Output...?

                          WTF?...

                          Regards


                          Ufopolitics
                          Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2012, 07:46 PM.
                          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                          Comment


                          • Hey DerekVolt!!

                            Originally posted by Electric_kiwi View Post
                            Derekvolt here, my question was in some of reproductions of your motor the rotor has been rewound and the stator is magnets. Will this work with a rotor that is standard but an asymmetric stator ?

                            Hello My You Tuber Friend!!

                            Yes it will work.... A "Hybrid"...meaning, a Symmetrical Rotor (just one commutator/two brushes (+/-)) and the Asymmetrical Stator (like Timeless Machine and Fiberglass Stator right?)

                            Yes definitively it will work...linear or pulsed...

                            Now, IF You really want to try something "very" different...do the following, BUT IT MUST BE PULSING STATOR!!:

                            From Stator terminals add ultrafast diodes at each end, blocking your Hot Input /So, Feed Stator Normally...and "after diodes" connect those (+/-) to Your Symmetrical Rotor Brushes..and watch it not sparking at all...and running super smooth...no witch there!

                            Simple Diagram:

                            (Batt + To Stator)---l<---[- Brush]
                            (Drain - To Stator)--->l---[+Brush]

                            ************************************************** ***

                            That is another "Symbiosis" of both Worlds that could've been done a long time ago...

                            Now watch the other Symbiosis that we will be doing here soon...but in bigger toys...An Asymmetric Motor as Prime Mover...and a Symmetric Generator Head...


                            We win...


                            Regards Derek, nice to see you finally found our place here!!


                            Ufopolitics
                            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2012, 07:44 PM.
                            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                            Comment


                            • hehe

                              Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                              Hey Seth,

                              Good try man!!...and good lesson...

                              Now please try this test below...will you?...so you know "a bit more"...


                              [IMG][/IMG]


                              Netica, Gints, Bob French...have done it...

                              It will clear the Phenomena that there IS ANOTHER OPPOSED FLOW to the already existing Opposed flow after Coil goes in "Collapse"...so this Flow is NOW SAME DIRECTION as Your Input, BUT at Output...?


                              Regards


                              Ufopolitics
                              i thoughts you'd like to know i put my muscle where my mouth was and tested my design
                              it did teach me a lot...one of the other things i learned was that amp draw appears to be heavily influenced by the exact input angles and the optimisation therof....that and a coils field trying to collapse is hindered/cancelled by trying to collapse too early.
                              maybe this is why some say the assymetrical designs only really take off at certain voltage and also why some say it draws more amps.

                              and this is why i think reducing (if possible) both the input and output quadrant to smaller degrees may improve the efficiency of your design while also bringing amps draw down....as i said optimal efficiency may mean the machines have to be manually spun to start them or even using a starter motor to get them going...once going though i can hope for a day when they actually put out more than they consume individually.
                              some ideas to achieve this would be to reduce input angle to 60 degrees like a symmetrical motor, only allow collapse after the coil has completely passed the magnet that opposes its collapse and potentially widening the second idle angle and allowing it to generate in the same direction as the collapse does.
                              theoretically a completely unhidered collapse added to a decent angle of induced generation could be more powerfull than the input pulse.

                              these are some of the things i would like to try and test if they are physically possible to design.

                              it takes me a long time to develop and draw the theories and building the test platforms aren't a picnic iether but i'm all for testing.
                              and once i have some decent test equipment i can start playing with the nice pulsed stuff

                              Comment


                              • Yes Dave...

                                Originally posted by Turion
                                LOL. I ordered the P56MD003. Was that the correct motor? 56 frame....there are a lot of different ones, but that is the 5hp one.

                                Also ordered NorthStar Generator Head 6500 Surge Watts 6000 Rated Watts J609B Engine Adaption
                                Dave
                                Yes Dave,

                                That IS the Motor...

                                Is the Generator Head Brush-Less or with slip ring-brushes...

                                Let me guess...You don't know...Want me to ask your "Personal Assistant"?




                                Regards


                                Ufopolitics
                                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                                Comment

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