My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Grreat!!!

HEllo Ufo,

I bought today 3 motors 0,5hp 90v 5 amps

They have 2 brushes aparently with many poles... I will post some pics when i succeed taking the rotor apart.

Hello Sebosfato!


Great those should do an excellent work!!

Please do share some pic's and keep Us posted.
Thanks and regards


Ufopolitics

[Farmhand]

OK then, whatever I disagree. As I said I am not a naysayer, all I did was
comment that to determine efficiency you need to determine power, efficiency
cannot be determined by voltage alone. Then you distract to an argument over
a magnetic field.

So simple answer please yes or no. Does the magnetic field change polarity by a
current flowing through the inductor the opposite way ?

Cheers

[Ufopolitics]

Great Analysis Netica...

Hi Ufo.

As best as I can see, when looking at the 5 pole motor, it seems that one of the 5 poles segments is energized both north and south at the same time, when the brushes are touching 2 segments of the commutator at the same time. The more worn in the brushes are, the longer it will last. Its at the time the pole passes the middle of the magnet.

|o|N|N|S|S|
|N|N|S|S|o|
...... /\.......

Will this effect the way the energy is passed on to the output brushes through the coasting stage.

Thanks netica

Hello Netica,


Good way to look at it...and you are right, we have to analyze this in a more detail level of study...unfortunately I can't help you right as of now...My Pentium is kind of "overheated"...

But I will cool it off then we can talk about this interesting approach...


Thanks


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Trust Me I Will Do It Farmhand...

OK then, whatever I disagree. As I said I am not a naysayer, all I did was
comment that to determine efficiency you need to determine power, efficiency
cannot be determined by voltage alone. Then you distract to an argument over
a magnetic field.

So simple answer please yes or no. Does the magnetic field change polarity by a
current flowing through the inductor the opposite way ?

Cheers

Hello Farmhand,


Yes I WILL do it ...I will show you ALL, such a DYNO...that would be beyond expectations here (well not expected from me)...just to prove I AM RIGHT...

And I am NOT going to test little cheap toys ...and I will not use LiPo's...

Promise...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Les_K]

Hi Les, How Ya doing old buddy? Can't you see I'm way to busy arguing to get started on the project!
Actually I'm starting the winding when I close the top to the notebook.
Take care.
John H

I know... everybody is talking and few building

Just remember I'm wanting to see one hour flight times on the quadcopter...

Les

[JohnStone]

Measurements

I'd like to suggest the following thoughs for evaluation. I am not after any theory but like to have a look to facts in order to know what to do next.
I feel it to be essential to devise some measurements - not for proving anything but in order get an overview on where to optimize next.

1. Reviewing the vid from P. Lindeman confirms that he made a shortcut in his calculation at around minute 40:43. In a standard motor the current in an individual active winding is absolute identical for both: forward voltage effects and and opposing effect. So he cancelled the current out and calculated the ratio of voltages only. At these conditions it is permittable and exact.
In case of assymmetric motors with different windings the condition above can't be applied.

2. As far I understood the matter the witch has two residences:

• [1]Counter generator effect in a coil moving relative to a megnetic field (see Lindemann vid)
  [2]Wasting stored energy (in the magnetic field) after it performed the torque/movement (mentioned by UFO)

I am not shure what residence we attacked up to now.
If (1) then the motors would be driven at about 20% of the rated voltage only .
If (2) then we should get out energy (current times voltage) somehow via the free winding path.
None of both was done up to now so we obviously have shifted the witch into an area where she can rage herself out without harm to anybody (wild oscillations). Maybe these oscillations trigger scalar events - vague speculation?????
That is no critics but the vision of a chance to get even more effitiency. I do not doubt the increased effitiencies reported already.

3. I expect that for a given input energy we can get out a certain recovered energy on the second winding path. This current should support the movement of the armature.
What will happen if we draw more energy out? Will it support the movement as well or will it do what usual generator windings do - counter motor effect in a generator?

4. Unfortunately we can not devise scientific power measurements. In such a case we need to move to comparing measurements. Apart that we do not want to prove a COP of 1.000001 only along scientific error calculation. We want to get hefty COP and then moderate losses of our measurement setup is tolerable.

5. So I suggest to use a motor as generator and devise measuremts under identical conditions.

Use two motors from stock and use one as drive motor and the other as generator. Use different input voltges and apply different loads at the generator side. i.e.


A) Reference measurements:
Measure free spinning current at differnt voltages: 6V / 9V / 12V

Uin = 6V later on 9V / 12V

• apply load: 0mA/50mA/100mA/200mA/500mA/ 1A (see LM317 as current regulator)
• measure for every condition: input / output voltage
• calculate power in Watts for every measurement.

You will find out if there is any sweet spot in this setup
Output: Measure currents: 50MA/ 1

B) Measure modified motor ( no generator part attached) but load at the free winding:
Same measurements like reference measurements.
I have no forcast what you will detect but you will have clear reference and decision later on

C) Measure modified motor (with generator part attached) load at generator:
Same measurements like reference measurements.

[sebosfato]

Leeson 0,5hp

This are the photos of the motor...

There are 18 slots at the brushes and 18 poles?

There are two big magnets inside too.


Ufo I have a question, is possible to short some sections of the brushes just for first trials?

How should i wind it? with the v shape like?


I noticed that i could instal a second brush set perpendiculary to the one here if i used less poles, would it be any good? Would i still need the two brushes on the separate parts?

PLEASE HeLP!!



Regards

[sebosfato]

Sorry there are 4 magnets two at each side... But one of each of the sides is smaller...

[barbosi]

The Dopeler Effect: the tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.

The same winding contest was in Lockridge thread which ended with pictures of "look, mine is bigger". Although the second commutator gives the clever illusion that the missing piece of the puzzle was found, at core it is the same principle.

Because everyone loves Tesla while hardly understand his work, I'll give you his approach on your problem. TESLA PATENT 568,177 APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING OZONE. While most of the people were sniffing the ozone section, they missed Tesla's simplest method of achieving what you are aiming at.
It is the controller mounted on the motor's shaft.

circuit-controller H, consisting in general of a conducting disk or cylinder with insulating-sections in its periphery

No motor modifications and with timings easier to adjust. And I know, you simply ignored this jewellery you understand and love so much Tesla's work.

The same thing with better control and using electronic components was demonstrated by Bedini. Maybe that was the reason erfinder mentioned him...

At the end of the winding contest, when most of the followers have achieved replicating your idea, I can see the last line from "Finding Nemo" (the cartoon).

Now... what?

And again, maybe, erfinder was suggesting there is an exit from the endless loops of stating the "problem" and finding another "solution" as many others before.

But while we're all concerned to save humanity, it sure feels so good to flame a fellow researcher which happens not to agree with our views.
The witch is dead for a long time, is time to realise that and move on the next challenge.

[adelsal]

Ufo,

This is my first post

Thank you for your time and sharing your knowledge.

[sebosfato]

Any idea?

Please?

[john_g]

The Dopeler Effect: the tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.

The same winding contest was in Lockridge thread which ended with pictures of "look, mine is bigger". Although the second commutator gives the clever illusion that the missing piece of the puzzle was found, at core it is the same principle.

Because everyone loves Tesla while hardly understand his work, I'll give you his approach on your problem. TESLA PATENT 568,177 APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING OZONE. While most of the people were sniffing the ozone section, they missed Tesla's simplest method of achieving what you are aiming at.
It is the controller mounted on the motor's shaft.




No motor modifications and with timings easier to adjust. And I know, you simply ignored this jewellery you understand and love so much Tesla's work.

The same thing with better control and using electronic components was demonstrated by Bedini. Maybe that was the reason erfinder mentioned him...

At the end of the winding contest, when most of the followers have achieved replicating your idea, I can see the last line from "Finding Nemo" (the cartoon).


And again, maybe, erfinder was suggesting there is an exit from the endless loops of stating the "problem" and finding another "solution" as many others before.

But while we're all concerned to save humanity, it sure feels so good to flame a fellow researcher which happens not to agree with our views.
The witch is dead for a long time, is time to realise that and move on the next challenge.

barbosi

I suggest you re-read ufo's post :

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post201803

Out of interest an extra mechanical commutator was used by Tesla in his high frequency lighting circuit also. The point is ufo has stated that we should move away from that method and use the electronics now available to us which open up greater possibilities of control - which I believe he is now showing.


Regards

John

[John_K]

Perhaps you've missed my previous posts on the matter. That statement refers to the SSG. Or what else do you mean by your question
using my name in that manor...

No Patrick, I saw your previous post as well. It was just a simple question. If JB's way is not producing usable power/torque, then what is it producing?

Do you have an issue with me using your name?


John K.

[zapzap]

Resolving the Blog Witch?

What really is going on here? I’ll take a semi-high road and take a shot to remediate what ails these pages.

I suspect after a great deal of work and sacrifices, UP wished to disclose the fruits of his labors as a gradual unfolding process - envision a flower opening. For starters he chose a motor that in the usa is almost universally available. To what end? Perhaps nothing more than an understanding of the dynamics of his windings and such. From there perhaps there were another several fill-in steps prior to the release his final work product.

Now because of his foreign and personally sophisticated, proud nature, he perhaps expected the process to be something like: information release, attempted replications, questions, problems resolved, next step replication, etc. Because of the considerable personal sacrifices it took for him to reach his erudite stage of understanding, he expected to be treated with a modicum of respect, certainly he expected that the questions or denunciations would come AFTER a person attempted to walk the "cheap" mile (stage 1) in his moccasins so to speak. Also, it is reasonable to believe he thought a mutually warm, thoughtful camaraderie would grow. And for most of us, this happened and is happening.

In the spirit of problem solving, I’m going to suggest some of you coldly look at what’s really been accomplished out there? Not to pick on anyone in particular but how about that flashing diode and some useless spinning coil in purdy Plexiglas? Oh, the Neumann monstrosity with two tons of copper in it? Try that replication! How about the Hyiq attempted replications of the meg? Not much hope for scale-up, is there? Ask him, he’ll tell you! How about that what, $30,000 (I think) ferris wheel. Does it drive anything commensurate to its size and expense? Wait, does it charge batteries? If so Rome burns but with well charged batteries – and sound systems… The list goes on and on and we know it. I have a suggestion, why don’t you handful of chiming-in “experts” give the process a chance to unfold to its destination and show your supposed good faith? Or replicate first after asking what the goal is in that particular replication. Get it through your skulls that it is a work in process (like the three batteries long term development?). For some of you out there, he (and the rest of us) have figured you out, please consider crawling back under the rock you came from, okay? Finally, please understand that American men are well known throughout the world for having physical "premature" issues (without a pill of course). Why don’t you guys cool off a bit and not confirm it is also a major mental issue also? Thanks.

[Ufopolitics]

Nikola Tesla's Main Claims Patent #390 414

[IMG][/IMG]


DESCRIPTION OF PATENT

1-INDEPENDENT ENERGIZING COILS...
2-IT IS OBVIOUSLY ONLY NECESSARY TO UTILIZE THEM IN PAIRS OR SETS TO OPERATE ONE OF MY CONVERTERS BY EXTENDING THE SEGMENTS OF THE COMMUTATORS BELONGING TO EACH PAIRS OF COILS AND CAUSING A COLLECTING BRUSH TO BEAR ON THE CONTINUOUS PORTION OF EACH SEGMENT.
3-IN THIS WAY TWO OR MORE CIRCUITS COULD BE TAKEN OFF FROM THE GENERATOR EACH INCLUDING ONE OR MORE PAIRS OR SETS OF COILS


CLAIMS

1-THE COMBINATION WITH A CONVERTER HAVING INDEPENDENT ENERGIZING COILS, OF A CONTINUOUS OR DIRECT CURRENT DYNAMO OR MAGNETO MACHINE AND INTERMEDIATE CIRCUITS PERMANENTLY CONNECTED AT SUITABLE POINTS TO THE INDUCED OR GENERATING COILS OF THE GENERATOR, AS HEREIN SET FORTH.

THE COMBINATION WITH A CONVERTER HAVING INDEPENDENT ENERGIZING CIRCUITS, OF A CONTINUOUS OR DIRECT CURRENT GENERATOR PROVIDED WITH CONTINUOUS COLLECTING-RINGS CONNECTED IN DERIVATION TO THE ARMATURE COILS TO FORM THE TERMINALS OF CIRCUITS CORRESPONDING TO THOSE OF THE CONVERTER, AS HEREIN SET FORTH.

Must of Tesla's Art related to Electrodynamic Machines, prevails the Asymmetry of Coils Disposition in a Non Series Arrangement, where He clearly States in All of them,

INDEPENDENT COILS AS IN MY PREVIOUS DEVICES (Line 34-35 of above Doc-Patent, highlighted in yellow)

the Independent Connections and Independently Energized Circuits-Coils as established in this Claims-Description of Main Embodiments.

Unfortunately Nikola Tesla's great Art was all Mutilated from all Engineering Schools in our Planet..that is a fact that no one could disagree here.

Therefore, all is left for Us...is to perform our own Privately Financed Study, Research and Development of what is left of Old Copies that date more than a Century ago...encrypted in a Non Easy Understandable Material that could NEVER be utilized as Teaching Material , but as Excessively Generally Explained Methods meeting the Legal Forms of Expression required by all Patent Offices around this Planet...now all "united" as one Organization through the PCT (Patent Commonwealth Treaty)

Tesla's Asymmetry not only is related to His Electrodynamics, but it extends to Transformers and Capacitors also shown on His Art.
None of them offers a Decay Oscillation Wave like Symmetry does but on the contrary, all of them are based on Gaining and Multiplication of Amplitude Delayed Waves.

Excellent researchers and Developers as MR. Tom Bearden, and MR. Vladimir Utkin back up all my statements cited above.

Refer to my previous Thread: Symmetric versus Asymmetric Electromagnetic Systems for direct links posted at the end of my Article.


Many regards


Ufopolitics