Future Energy hydroxy cell

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Observations of quality of tone:
The 2" x 6" pipe tone I have is like a full spectrum audible sound with harmonics and rings\chimes for several seconds after tapped.
I assume this pipe is annealed and relieved of stresses properly.

The 1.75" x 7" pipe tone is (blah) although I can hear the tone its subdued and no lengthy ringing. This pipe is stressed and needs annealing for relief.
Its not lively like the previous pipe.

Another item to work on.

[rick123]

Carroll
I think FD is being lvl headed, I share his skepticism. IMO, and I think FD would agree, if we were in Freddy's position and wanting to share everything, we could accomplish it with one 10-minute u-tube video or one PDF that everyone could upload. Very simple: here is everything, here is how I did it, know go for it. Done and done.

FD in your previous post on the HZ, I think Freddy was talking about the PWM not the tones of the tubes. And ya those videos have Zero organization or categorization to them. Is he selling guns or teaching about WFC? LOL

I am about ready to build this, I got everything ready to go in my shop. I just can't afford to get it wrong and build it twice. I got an awesome new cell container and design all planed out. So I am just waiting.....

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Funny why Freddy posted some real old videos.
The CFM in those old videos was really LPM at that time, it was an error.
The frequency seems to be still the same.

I know it gets old when people just beat around the bush and through curves but I have a little faith left that there is really something here.

It will take a while but I will still work on this single pipe set tuning when I get the wave recorder set-up. Then eventually weld the studs and install a coil.

[Farrah Day]

No Carroll, I was initially prepared to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and I've been merely attempting to highlight oddities and inconsistencies. However, just to make it very clear, you do understand don't you, that I no longer have any faith in Fast Freddy.

[citfta]

Give up on the guy?

How can you be ready to give up on the guy since you have made it clear you never believed in him in the first place? Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen anything that convinces me he has anything to offer but you sound like a broken record. You just keep saying the same thing over and over. I think all of us reading this thread are sure you have no faith in FF. We got that message several pages ago. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. Now do you understand that we understand you don't have any faith in FF? How about if you take a break from your posting so we can get a rest. Sorry for the rant but this is really getting old.

Carroll

[Farrah Day]

Well, there are a few new Fast Freddy videos posted, but... there's something very strange about them.

Those of you with a keener eye for detail might just notice that Fast Fred's hair has grown about 8 inches since last weeks video... which begs the question: What the heck is he playing at? It's all getting a little 'Twilight Zone' weirder now, indeed in one of these newly posted videos he does nothing but show you his workshop, the machinery and do a bit of marketing for his guns!

He does however state some things of interest, one being that he uses 2 teaspoons of KOH to a gallon of distilled water and another thing is that his smaller tubes have a resonant frequency of 14.7 Hz... (at least they do now... did then?? ) And, yes, that's Hertz, not kilohertz! And one of the Schumann frequencies I believe. He states that the large central tubes resonate at around 19Hz.

Does anyone actually believe that the natural resonant frequency of any of those ss tubes is anywhere near as low as 19Hz... because I for one don't! In fact I'm no longer inclined to believe anything FF says, as clearly he doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about.

Things are going downhill fast now and I for one have just about given up on this guy and his, next to pointless, videos.

[adam_mizer]

Tone Generator Software - Audio Test Tone Generator Download

Playing with this program you can make adjustments to it, my ear is not perfect pitch but can get close. In order for exactness a microphone and pitch or frequency software program must be used.

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Its hard to look at this tuning but there has to be a positive side responce to it.
The electric circuit for the cell current cares not for some acoustic resonant cavity, so we have our current in any water or electrolyte to a degree or what we chose for amperage on the design.
The tubes are tuned the same but the 2mm gap is now a harmonic of the tubes acoustic base frequency. So the outer tube is now part of the 2mm gap and the inner tube is part of the 2mm gap and also has a fundamental base frequency in its center.
But as it fills and expands with gases the 2mm resonant cavity frequency is rising and falling and the stationary center tube maintains its cavity in water no gas.
So can the pulsed voltage/current create a vibration between the tubes, reminds me of 60 cycle hum in transformers and flourescent light ballasts. I think there is a slight cavity vibration and also the e-coil attached to the bottom stud helps promote the cycle vibration.

Is it possible this creates a desired effect a effect that extends the standard of electrolysis and brings the efficiency up much higher?
2 things to look at: vibrational and the effect of a antenna.

The frequency of those tubes I'm guessing will be beyond 1000hz I started tuning some 12" tubes a few years ago and never finished and their frequency was from 1-3Khz.
The 2mm gaps frequency must be a higher frequency to several Khz, it seems funny that a 15hz pulse can do anything in this so-called acoustic resonant cavity and there is actually a slightly rising and falling frequency change effect on the tubes as the amount of gas verses water space changes.
Its interesting to think that maybe a vibrational sound is traveling at 2 different speeds in the cavity of a pair of tubes and we can get a resonant effect out of it. Or is it picking up and inserting radio wave power into the cell.
I want to believe it, it has possibility and I havn't seen any real achievements in HHO and this has the building blocks of advancements needed.

[lamare]

However, the question - for me at least - then becomes how are we translating an EM signal into an acoustic signal? Where or what is acting as the transducer?

Afterall, it serves little purpose to tune the tubes to an acoustic frequency if an acoustic wave will not be resonating them.

Loudspeakers and microphones convert EM signals to acoustic and vice-versa, but there would appear to be no obvious transducer in any of these WFCs. We still have the question as to why FF has deleted his tube tuning videos... and yes, the sceptic in me is starting to take a hold!

You either drive a current trough your fluid, which is being carried by the charged ions in the current, or you induce currents inside your fluid using an electric field. In both cases you push/pull the existing ions in the fluid back and forth with a frequency that matches the acoustic resonance frequency of some kind of acoustic resonator in the fluid (your tubes).

To me that sounds like a transducer.... It's just not a separate component, but part of the design.

[Farrah Day]

Farrah
I, like you and many many others am sitting and awaiting the answers to the questions that were asked of Freddy with no reply.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the tuning and found tid bits that pointed to tuning over several years and it somewhat starts making some sense. Meyer Lawton Ravi etc..

Adam, the only real explanation with regards to the frequency of the tube tuning would simply be that they all need to be the same, or in the case of the new centre tubes an appropriate multiple of.

However, the question - for me at least - then becomes how are we translating an EM signal into an acoustic signal? Where or what is acting as the transducer?

Afterall, it serves little purpose to tune the tubes to an acoustic frequency if an acoustic wave will not be resonating them.

Loudspeakers and microphones convert EM signals to acoustic and vice-versa, but there would appear to be no obvious transducer in any of these WFCs. We still have the question as to why FF has deleted his tube tuning videos... and yes, the sceptic in me is starting to take a hold!

[lamare]

Rick, I have no idea what he's talking about when he speaks of the inner tube having to be 180 degrees out of phase with the outer. I would have thought, if anything, they would need to be in phase to resonate. Surely 180 deg. out of phase would cause a cancelling action!

Somethings sure starting to smell a bit off tho' is it?

I sense the 'nobody-believes-me-so-I'm-going-to-have-a-tantrum-and-say-no-more' card is close to being played.

No, this is not "off", it's balancing. Yes, you get cancelling out, but not inside the tubes! You basically create a sitiuation that the wave is being contained in a certain area around your tubes, so the energy says there and does not fly away....

In other words: you create a loop for your waves to run in circles.

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Farrah
I, like you and many many others am sitting and awaiting the answers to the questions that were asked of Freddy with no reply.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the tuning and found tid bits that pointed to tuning over several years and it somewhat starts making some sense. Meyer Lawton Ravi etc..

My garage shop is full of cells built over the years that produce gas but not at the rate of anything I would write about but many are useable as boosters on any motor. There are many feet of left over tubes and plates here and none are small than 1" OD. I am contemplating cutting a 1.75" or 2" OD pipe and checking what the frequency is of that pipe and see if it relates to the 4th octive lower of the small pipes.

The information I presented was found when this all started. I had copied what I could at the beginning and now see that posts were removed and pictures changed thats why he has 2 of the same pictures in that 9 picture group.

Seeing the posts here the primary Freddy information was starting to get messed up and had missing parts, so I decided to write about what I know.

Top this off with Freddy now doing Proto-type 7 which has larger tubes in it than Proto-6 and I wanted answers of Proto-6. Tuning and coils and specific connections to the automotive system (valves used etc..) Seeing that paper on how he started his idea also led me to believe he was using exhaust gas recirculation somewhere but there is no mention of it at all.

Over the passed months I have been contemplating building another cell and I found this Freddy info, it intrigued me, took a couple days to sink in and then I started acquiring all the info I could on it.

There you have it. Time to take it to the next step or await an e-book.

[Farrah Day]

Adam

What frequency exactly are the tubes tuned to... and why?

[Farrah Day]

I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies. At least he hasn't talked about the fabled 'implosion' myth... or water making the pistons go rusty.

Rick, I have no idea what he's talking about when he speaks of the inner tube having to be 180 degrees out of phase with the outer. I would have thought, if anything, they would need to be in phase to resonate. Surely 180 deg. out of phase would cause a cancelling action!

Somethings sure starting to smell a bit off tho' is it?

I sense the 'nobody-believes-me-so-I'm-going-to-have-a-tantrum-and-say-no-more' card is close to being played.

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Much of the work of this proto-type 6 is spelled out.
There are 10 tube pairs annealed 316L SS.
9 pairs inner are: 3/4" x 7" x 16ga or .065 thickness
outer are 1" x 6" x .035"
These tubes are tuned and the gap is 2mm.
center tube is 4 octives lower than these outer tubes and the center tube has a 1mm gap.
Tube set is 1.75" x .065 x 7" and 2" x .065" x 6"
These are virtually tuned at this dimension it may be that they need some minor trimming to tune in closer.
First cut both 6 and 7 inch tubes, ping or ting them seperately to test their pitch and frequency. It should be the same.
The large tube set is 4 octives lower, again do them individually.
Basically this proto 6 tune work is already figured out for you.

Some annealing approaches can be found on the i-net just search.
One of the methods was heat to a certain temp in the hundred-teens with a certain amount of time, then cool at a slow rate of certain amount of time after that cool slow cool rate of few hours to equal several hundred degree's less, after they could be cooled quickly. I'm pretty sure Boyce used a annealing method or the plates were preordered annealed. I think we are speaking of a softening process to certain degree.
Use a small oven like a jewelers oven well maybe the next size or 2 bigger.

For the 180degree's out of phase may very well have to do with the present gap.