Ionization & Water Fuel

[sucahyo]

I answer your question twice already sebosfato. My main point is exhaust heat is more than enough to ionize nitrogen, oxygen or water.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5247-ionization-water-fuel-7.html#post83374

and just now:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5247-ionization-water-fuel-9.html#post83704

[Aaron]

experiments

Sebosfato,

Do you have a youtube account with some experiments that you have
done?

[sebosfato]

I have checked aron and no one answer my question.

Of course you can use the heat loss when using a combustion engine, Very low efficiency recover but you can, but there are other 5 ways 100 times more efficient.

You all talk too generally to get any result.

You all now discovered that unburned gases and nitrogen would slow down the combustion speed and think that will be the solution and tomorrow you will change idea again...

Stan clearly states that uses the ambient gases to retard the combustion ...
I don't understand how you didn't understood it before.

I talk about energy source and as i made specific question, a general answer wont tell me anything.


Is too easy to say thermodynamic non equilibrium...

I know how it works and i can tell you that its more than thermodynamic non equilibrium. Is all about resonance. Energy multiplication. (perpetual motion is adequate as is possible to make it works also without extra input energy) And particle acceleration.

It don't break any law in physics. It respect every laws. And use them all in its favor.

So if you understand my point you may see that what i want from you is that you don't lose your time talking about non related things when what every one wants here is OU.

You are talking about ionizing nitrogen to make it react bla bla bla

What i'm saying is that you need a net energy gain to do this ionization, otherwise you are not ionizing anything you are just making people waste their times.

H20 theory fails when he say oh lets spend 40w and ionize the oxygen to its 4 ionization potential. Big Bull ****...Why
the energy in joules he describe he can gain is not the energy he can gain, is the energy necessary to ionize the gas. So you ionize the gas and you have the same energy back from its burning. Not accounting that using 40w you can ionize a ridiculous amount of gas the way that has being described...
So don't hold for h20 and not even to tutanka until he prove me wrong. I'm saying this because i doesn't matter if you ionize oxygen or nitrogen or whatever it is because to make any chemical change in a chemical element you need to apply energy!

I know a way to ionize the gas while generating an energy gain the way stan proposed but stan don't even dreamed to explain it well on the patents so without learning real physics you are all out line. He didn't explained it at all. While the reason for so many patents is so evident.

Ou is simple, more simple than you can imagine. Is a closed loop with the right components in the right order in a loop.

Answer to my questions if you can. This can clear up the way to you.

Best Regards

sincerely
sebosfacts

[Oneminde]

water to combustable - Stanley Meyers-Water Fuel-Cell-Technical Brief-FULL

It is the Meyer's tech manual. Not sure how independent it is, but
look at the excerpts I took from it in my last post.

It is not the same as I posted... so be sure to look at that - the nitrogen part in the WFC is on page 27 in the link I provided.

[Oneminde]

NOx production can be directly controled by the combustion temperatur and duration another hint there.
The reason why so "much" NOx is produced in gasolin/diesel engines is becouse of the long burntime and temperatur...
And also remember that Meyer used some of the water to produce steam, similar to the water manipulation engine.. and I think also that we should take that into acount here.

Yes Aaron - "pure voltage pulses going ot the cell" that is what it is about and thank you for that.

[pengrove]

sorry about that I am posting duplicates now? Anyway if you remember right in one of Stans videos where he was very excited jumping around saying praise the Lord. Well remember how he mentioned that the exhaust gases were also reduced on his buggy while he held his hand over the pipe. He had a tall tube set up sitting beside the buggy holding 30psi.

[Aaron]

thermodynamics

Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

I mean we all might have understood that in the world of physics for an action there is a reaction and vice versa. This is called thermodynamics principle.

You have to get rid of the idea that anyone is talking about perpetual
motion or anything and nobody is talking about doing something without
inputting energy.

I already spelled out for you that there is non-equilibrium thermodynamics
that you have not studied and if you did, you would see that this system
or anything like it simply conforms to these principles and not to the
thermodynamics that you mention.

Also, it is a MYTH that a reaction has to be in the opposite direction.

[Aaron]

tech manual

Hello, where do I find this report?:
International Independent Test Evaluation Report

water to combustable - Stanley Meyers-Water Fuel-Cell-Technical Brief-FULL

It is the Meyer's tech manual. Not sure how independent it is, but
look at the excerpts I took from it in my last post.

[Oneminde]

Here you go;

http://www.waterfuelcell.org/ForumPDFs/International%20Independent%20Test%20Evaluation%20Report.pdf

[Aaron]

Nitrogen Is The Gas Combustion Stabilization Process!

Thank you for the "Quantum Key" I enoyed that book.

Now, This question is only for you: Is it possible to use the Grey conversion tube as the HV source for the Voltrolysis? A simple answer will do as I do not want to sidetrack this tread to much.

Glad you like the book! Thank you

About 5 years ago, I stated that I think the Gray tube technology would
be the holy grail of water gas production once it is fully understood.
But related, in the nitrogen hydroxide 3 page doc I posted, the end has
a link to the Gray tube thread and I think active nitrogen may just be
the key there.

Thanks for the reference to the tech manual. I found more nitrogen
references...

ATTN ALL: LOOKS BELOW AT THE REFERENCES FROM THE
WFC TECHNICAL MANUAL OF STAN MEYERS
THE NITROGEN ABSOLUTELY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SLOWING
DOWN THE BURN OF THE GAS FROM 325 CM/SEC TO 42 CM/SEC
THAT IS HOW THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY IS RELEASED
INSTEAD OF HAVING QUICK HHO BURSTS
HE EVEN STRAIGHT OUT SAYS THAT THE NITROGEN IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING TO PREVENT OXYGEN FROM JOINING
WITH HYDROGEN!!!

I HAD NO DOUBTS AND THE PATENT EXCERPTS I POSTED
CLEARLY SPELL IT OUT BUT THE BELOW FROM THE TECH
MANUAL ACTUALLY SPELLS IT OUT IN FULL DETAIL.

ANYONE CLAIMING THAT NITROGEN IS NOT PART OF
MEYERS' PROCESS IS SPREADING DISINFORMATION
NON-INTENTIONALLY OR INTENTIONALLY
EITHER WAY, IT IS 100% FALSE!

THIS IS NOT A JOKE AND I DON'T APPRECIATE PEOPLE
BEING ABUSED BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING
FORWARD TO AND COUNTING ON THE FACT THAT
THIS WATER TECHNOLOGY IS REAL AND STEERING THEM
AWAY FROM THE MOST OVERWHELMINGLY OBVIOUS KEY
TO GETTING A SLOW CONTROLLED THERMAL RELEASE BURN
FROM WATER IS - ABUSING PEOPLE.

IF THERE ARE OTHER WEBSITES ONLINE THAT BEGIN TO
DISCOUNT THE IMPORTANCE OF NITROGEN - I AM WARNING
YOU THAT THOSE ARE THE EXACT PEOPLE WHO WILL ALSO
BE GUILTY OF SPREADING DISINFORMATION.

BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR IT BECAUSE IT IS BOUND TO
HAPPEN AS SOME PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF CHANGE AND
DESTROYING A PRE-CONCEIVED PARADIGM ABOUT
ANYTHING IS USUALLY A DIFFICULT THING TO GO ALONG WITH.

AS THE SAYING GOES - "DOING THE SAME THING OVER
AND OVER AGAIN EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS" = INSANITY

HOW ARE THE RESULTS SPEAKING IN THE HHO WORLD
THAT HAS OBVIOUSLY DISCOUNTED THE IMPORTANCE OF
NITROGEN? NOT VERY WELL...

SO MAYBE IT IS TIME TO FOCUS ON SLOWING DOWN THE
WATER FLAME BY MIXING IT WITH NITROGEN
INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON THE MISDIRECTION OF THE
"ORTHO-PARA HYDROGEN" PROPAGANDA.
THERE MAY BE SOMETHING TO THAT, BUT...
MEYER IS CLEARLY SPELLING OUT NITROGEN PREVENTS
THE OXYGEN FROM COMBINING WITH HYDROGEN!

-----------------------------------------

Gas Mixing Regulator
Inherently, the Water Fuel Cell allows the "Burn-Rate" of Hydrogen to be "Changed" or
"adjusted" from 325 cm/sec. to 42 cm/sec. (Co-equalling Natural Gas Burning levels) since Non-
Combustible Gases (such as Nitrogen, Argon, and other non-burnable gases) derived from Ambient
Air dissolved in natural water performs the Gas Retarding ProcessFlame Temperature Adjustment
By capturing and recycling the expelled non-combustible gas (D) (derived from and
supplied by the water bath) back into the sustained hydrogen gas-flame or Fuel-Cell causes the gasflame
temperature to be "changed" or "altered" by way of the Gas Retarding Process, as illustrated
in Figure (2-4) as to Figure (2-3). The recycling gases (D) controlled by an

Gas Flow Regulator
allows the gas flame-temperature to be "adjusted" or "calibrated" to any gas burning level (S), as so
illustrated in Figure (2-2).
The "newly" formed and established gas flame-temperature remains constant regardless of
the gas flow-rate of the Fuel-Cell. Continual feedback of non-combustible gases (D) is, hereinafter,
called "The Gas Combustion Stabilization Process".
Automatically, the Gas Combustion Stabilization Process changes the "Burn-Rate" of the
Fuel Cell gases (B/D) when obtaining the desired gas-flame temperature.

----------------
Gas Modulator Process
Dissolved air gases (97) of Figure (3-39) being uniformly released from water bath (85) via
the Electrical Polarization Process (160) of Figure (3-26) is automatically intermixed with released
hydrogen (86) and oxygen (87) gas atoms (also derived from water bath 85) to form Fuel-Gas
mixture (88) of Figure (3-24) having a hydrogen gas burn-rate of approximately 47 centimetres per
seconds (cm/see) in ambient air, as illustrated in (330) of Figure (3-37). Volatility of hydrogen fuelmixture
or Fuel-Gas (88) is reduced from 325 cm/sec. to approximately 47 cm/sec. since ambient
air gases (97) (dissolved air gases in water) is primarily composed of non-combustible gases (74)
(such as nitrogen, argon, and other non-burnable gases) of Figure (3-39) which acts and performs as
a "Gas Modulator" during thermal gas ignition (98), as illustrated in (320) of Figure (3-36). The
non-combustible gases (74) physically retards and slows down the speed by which oxygen atom
(87) unites with (covalent link up) hydrogen atoms ( 86a / 86b) to bring on and support gas ignition
process (gas combustion process) (98), as further illustrated in (340) of Figure (3-38).

WELL THERE WE GO!



------------------
Meyer obviously sees high value in reclaiming exhaust to get the NO
pulled apart and put back in the WFC.


WFC Exhaust Air Reclaimer

[pengrove]

Hello, where do I find this report?:
International Independent Test Evaluation Report

[sucahyo]

Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

With preheating. And since exhaust heat is sufficient, LED and HV is a bonus power up.

I mean for example if you need at least 55 amps to electrolyze 1 mole of wATER, you would need to extract 55 amps of electrons to ionize 1 mole of any gas, lets say to take of 2 electrons per atom.

GEET device do not use any electricity and yet the GEET device transform water and oil mix into something else. Heat and vortex and magnetic field is sufficient.

The ionization potential of a gas is the energy required to take apart electrons of its orbits. And = the energy it will release if the electrons recombine into the atom.

It only equal if the reaction work in two direction. There are also many reaction that is only one way.

[sebosfato]

Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

I mean we all might have understood that in the world of physics for an action there is a reaction and vice versa. This is called thermodynamics principle.

Basically what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you use 30kv or 100kv the amount of ions generated will depend on the current. Faradays law.

ionization is quite the same thing of electrolysis, high voltage is needed to overcome the minimum potential to allow the current to flow.

Have you heard about ionization current or ion current on ionizers man?

I mean for example if you need at least 55 amps to electrolyze 1 mole of wATER, you would need to extract 55 amps of electrons to ionize 1 mole of any gas, lets say to take of 2 electrons per atom.

So again how do you explain this? I can understand if it is only a kind of acceleration of the gas in the fields but ionization i think not.

Thats also why i disagree with h20power on ionization.

Conceptually if you check what i'm saying is what theory says.

The ionization potential of a gas is the energy required to take apart electrons of its orbits. And = the energy it will release if the electrons recombine into the atom.

Accelerating the gas would just need the fields magnetic or electric and would seem to be more related with what are you saying....

Sorry if i don't drink that explanation that easy...

Best Regards my friend

#I didn't got any answer to this questions from any of you so i want to ask them again!


Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

I mean we all might have understood that in the world of physics for an action there is a reaction and vice versa. This is called thermodynamics principle.

Basically what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you use 30kv or 100kv the amount of ions generated will depend on the current. Faradays law.

ionization is quite the same thing of electrolysis, high voltage is needed to overcome the minimum potential to allow the current to flow.

Have you heard about ionization current or ion current on ionizers man?

I mean for example if you need at least 55 amps to electrolyze 1 mole of wATER, you would need to extract 55 amps of electrons to ionize 1 mole of any gas, lets say to take of 2 electrons per atom.

So again how do you explain this? I can understand if it is only a kind of acceleration of the gas in the fields but ionization i think not.

Thats also why i disagree with h20power on ionization.

Conceptually if you check what i'm saying is what all theory says.

The ionization potential of a gas is the energy required to take apart electrons of its orbits. And = the energy it will release if the electrons recombine into the atom.

Accelerating the gas would just need the fields magnetic or electric and would seem to be more related with what are you saying....

Sorry if i don't drink that explanation that easy...

Best Regards my friend

[sucahyo]

Copper screen treating air BEFORE it is combusted I think has nothing to do with a catalytic converter. And, the dioxin molecule has a LOT of CARBON, which isn't present here to begin with. There is no dioxin formed.

Ok. Before exhaust gas being mixed in too?

I do NOT think gasoline is required for combustion. The Australian website claim of a car running on Nitrogen Hydroxide mentions or someone else mentions that it needed some gasoline. Tutanka brought it up that the "Australian inventor" needed gas. That is what those websites say. I have never said that I believe that.

If this refer to my question, I rephrase it:
Why you refer N(OH)2 and not N2O or NH3 or HNO3 or something else made of hydrogen/oxygen/nitrogen mix?

There are definitely a few methods of production with either a biopolar unit or a pos/air neg/water one it seems.

It would probably be easier to have one single processor that does water
and air at the same time. I've been thinking about this but wonder why
if there is negative also that it doesn't reunite N into N2. How can it be
selective or does everything just happen to work out?

Kinda like alkaline and acid water separator but only on gas?



According to Meyer patent 5,293,857, Tutanka method definitely different. Meyer only ionize air, while Tutanka ionize the water too. See my post at:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5313-my-proposed-theory-how-stanley-meyer-made-use-water-source-fuel.html#post83680

[Oneminde]

@ Aaron!

Thank you for the "Quantum Key" I enoyed that book.

Now, This question is only for you: Is it possible to use the Grey conversion tube as the HV source for the Voltrolysis? A simple answer will do as I do not want to sidetrack this tread to much.