Ionization & Water Fuel

[stevie1001]

Thanks Aaron!

Born to be wild....Born to make an engine to run on water, in my case...

regards
Steve

[Aaron]

Get your motor running...

YouTube - Steppenwolf - Born to Be Wild

[Aaron]

@Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the access! Your forum is a great compilation of builders it sounds
for the WFC. Hope to see some that want to consider this thread's content.

[stevie1001]

Ionization of HHO creating magnetgas

Hi forummembers,


I haven't seen any pictures of experiments in which somebody tried to make magnetgas out of HHO.
Its a pretty dangerous hobby.
I used 3KV on 100hz and i pulsed the gasflow by holding my finger on the end of the tube.

Pickupcoil is placed around the output hose of my bubler and flashback arrestor.

Goal of the test was to see if i could see any type of reaction.
The signal is pretty messy, but you can see clearly the diff between gasflow and no gasflow.

best regards
Steve

ps.
Aaron, the account creation did fail some weeks ago, but your account has been made..

https://www.ionizationx.com

[Aaron]

Pure Power Inc (www.purepowercorp.com)

Thanks Sucahyo, I vaguely remember seeing that reference in the other
thread or this one. I'm going back through it again. This post is just to
make references of Pure Power, Inc (not corp - only website is corp but
business is actually Pure Power, Inc.)

Pure Power Inc.
Pure Power Inc.
Pure Power Inc.
Pure Power Inc.

"Pure Power Inc. has filed for a provisional patent for the Oxidant generator #61131553. We are working on a prototype generator that synthesizes Nitrous Oxide (N20) and Ozone (O3) from earths atmosphere. The device uses a microwave plasma to ionize input gases, breaking the chemical bonds. Which releases solids such as carbon, and the gases reform as nitrous oxide and ozone. While these are greenhouse gases, they are to be used to increase fuel efficiency and reduce carbon emissions. Exhaust gases are recycled back into the oxidant generator, which releases solids, and reforms the gases into oxidants. Nitrous Oxide has a proven record of increasing fuel efficiency and reducing emissions, but the conventional method of heating ammonium nitrate is not feasible and very explosive, and high compression tanks are too dangerous to be used. "

Where is this patent or application? It won't come up in any searches.
Oxidant generator #61131553
It is referred to as a provisional patent:
Provisional Application for Patent
Is there a provisional patent database searchable by the public?

James Tracy's Page - PickensPlan

YouTube - PurePowercorp's Channel
YouTube - Microwave Induced Plasma
YouTube - Google Project 10 to the 100th: Microwave Induced Plasma Smoke Destruction 1
YouTube - Google Project 10 to the 100th: Microwave Induced Plasma oxygen scrubber smoke clip
YouTube - Microwave Induced Plasma ignition test #1
YouTube - Microwave Induced Plasma radiation Test

This man may be the actual inventor or at least is
putting his name on it. He gives a good recommendation
that is posted on that Pickens Plan site:
Dr. Paul A. Curto, CEO Pure Power Inc.

References:

http://www.hartfordinfo.org/issues/wsd/landfill/EngEnvApp.pdf

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/success/plasmatron-ld-dec01.pdf

Plasmatron with steam as the plasma gas and process for stable operation of the plasmatron - US Patent 5498826 Description
Plasmatron with steam as the plasma gas and process for stable operation of the plasmatron - US Patent 5498826 Description
Ogonek Report on `21st Century Weapons' -- Plasma Shield Able To Protect Entire Planet From Nuclear Threat

[sucahyo]

The reason I think tutanka use Microwave plasma before combustion chamber:

HI Peoples,
I don't see news or nothing of ready to see.. However I attach here our italian news.. new hydrogen engine running without injector and new microwave bi-reactor for create hydrogen/oxygen gas. About your GP.. I have tested in Lab an curious experiment and I have mistake about N2O creation inside GP.. Yes.. isn't created N2O or O3 but only nitrogen atomic and little NO/NO2.. I'm sorry for you H2opower but isn't oxygen that help you to split water into injector but nitrogen atomic. Yes peoples... this is used from Meyer as natural catalyzed for absorb oxygen from H2O2.. in fact inside reaction you obtain H2O2 as result.. is very reactive and when is mixed with nitrogen atomic, created inside GP, you obtain split of H2O2 and NO/NO2 as result.. low amount of oxygen present into air is absorbed every from nitrogen atomic inside GP. Peoples .. first to start any project and spent a lot of moneys I suggest you to ask with an good chemistry.. Regards from Italy

Some peoples indicate me privately the new theory of H2OPOWER about N2O creation inside gas processor. As previoulsy written on this thread I tought that Meyer created N2O within the GP but in order to obtain this must create an reaction using much heat, I'm successful to create O3 and N2O using ambient air creating an reactor using Microwave Plasma (thanks to James of PurePowerCorp.COM) .. For these reasons, for me, the Gas Processor of Meyer don't have enough energy inside for obtain as output the N2O gas.

Ok, I think I miss undertand the dual polarity gas processor:

Tutanka, to clarify, the neutral ions in the air processor you mention is
processing both air and water at same time?

Neutral ions (positive/negative) are only based on ambient air and not water treatment (circuit posted isn't the same used, we use high HV field 30+30Kv for increase ionization treatment)

Otherwise, there is still a method of + ionizing air and - water right or
have I misunderstood something?

As written I don't see the instructions of meyer exaclty, these inputs are referred to Gas Processor and water steam used inside meyer process for increase time of reaction ..

My air processor used special circuit double HV output 30+30Kv, the main output is AC, the other (grid) negative DC. With that I obtain positive/negative ions..

For dual polarity purposes, I imagine if we polarize N atom and H atom, we can get them combine easier. I imagine if we do it backward, they will repell each other lol.

In the gas processor I think the molecule will separate as long as there is something that force them to separate (HV electricity).


ASU stands for Air Separation Unit if I am not mistaken. It condense the air and separate it by means of liquid and gas.

Ted Hollinger seems to only use ammonia. He mention problem with critical air - fuel mixture and cold start condition.

[Aaron]

water fuel process

There are a lot of contradictions and confusions in this thread and I
think they are from language barrier. There is some discussion here
based on some of the things Alex posted in the other thread that are
overlapping what he is currently doing and they are obviously a different
process that of course would seem to be aiming towards the same goal
of creating the right mixture.

You say "add plasma to ambient air too". There are multiple plasmas here.
I mentioned in the past about the possibility of a plasma ignition in the
air processor to treat the air, but there was no response. Also, when the
ambient air is ionized, the ionized air IS a plamsa. And when the ignition
is ignited, that is a plasma too. So, different plasmas and that has caused
some confusion.

I've seen you repeat multiple times about using microwaves. But I don't
believe I have seen any confirmation from Alex on this. There are others
that have used a magnetron in water "processing" applications and for
other water arc experiments, etc... but still, did Alex confirm this or not.
You keep mentioning it so do you know that for sure or are you guessing?

Alex said he uses an AC ionization process to create a NEUTRAL PLASMA.
It is similar in concept to the ionizing hair dryer patent with the setting for
both positive and negative at the same time. Is this neutral plasma with
or without water moisture or just ambient air that is processed? Then,
the wfc output is then added to that?

Also, if electrons are stripped and electrons are added, how do we wind up with
any atomic nitrogen as it seems that adding electrons back to it would
simply wind up with N2 again - unless if there are more positive grids
then negative, then maybe most is atomic and only a small bit turns
to N2?

In the other thread, Alex posted diagrams of an air processor and water
processor where it is very specifically showing that electrons are stripped
from the air and electrons are added to the water. That appears to be
an older process and Alex is doing something different now. I think if this
thread was started from scratch and there was no other diagrams in that
other thread, that it would not have been as confusing.

I don't recall what ASU stands for but they're completely wrong.

Nitrogen and hydrogen can combine with very low power. It is in all the
published papers that go back to the beginning of the 1900's and those
reference different understandings that go back to 1807.

With recycling of the exhaust, it seems there is a concentrating effect
of the fuel.

In the conventional ICE that has burned ammonia, the mixture is 95%
ammonia and 5% hydrogen. That seems to be a lot of ammonia per
hydrogen. And evidently shows that the hydrogen is simply a catalyst
to combust the ammonia. They even spell out that the hydrogen is a
catalyst to combust the ammonia. That was just one particular success
and I'm sure others have their own mixtures and ideas but of course
that is starting off with pre-made ammonia and not making it at point of
use.

[sucahyo]

Most seem to be doing no ionization of air at all. It makes sense that the ionization of air would be a superior way to go. Meyer started with no air ionization.
...
I've been aware of the ionized oxygen part for 10 years when a friend first gave me videos of Meyer back then. It partly made sense but was also seen as an enhancement to the process and not a requirement.

Meyer do mention it as enhancement, maybe because he also use ionizer in the plug too. We may need it if our electric ionizer is not at Meyer level yet. Maybe add plasma to ambient air too. I think this is the reason for why tutanka introduce plasma before combustion chamber too with microwave.

I was very interested in what Alex was hinting to in H2OPower's Meyer thread because he seemed to be hinting at some very specific things in regards to the ionization process that hinted to something other than simply stripping electrons from the oxygen.

I think tutanka do not use simple ionization because he mention the use of +30KV - 0KV - -30KV. I forget which one receive the positive charge. I think we could try it on gasoline or diesel engine. See if negative ionizing the input air and positive ionizing the fuel will increase combustion....

You said the meeting said it wasn't self sustaining? I think that is irrelevant. Why would they care if it is self sustaining or not? What is the context that was used in? Obviously it will take energy but is supposed to be 1/3 more efficient and more simple as super high pressure and heat isn't needed like the Haber-Bosch Process that is the standard way to make ammonia.

I think that is because they think ASU that separate nitrogen from oxygen is needed. And they don't think that car can supply energy to combine nitrogen and hydrogen. They don't seem to combine furnace and HV plasma.

Tutanka and Meyer system is an example of self sustaining unit so I guess the scientist must learn from them .

Everyone that is running ICE's on ammonia are using very high ammonia content like 95% and a small percent of hydrogen and the hydrogen is the catalyst to combust the ammonia. Then the combustion byproduct is simply water and nitrogen.

They use very strict air to fuel ratio controller because ammonia can only burn at very small ratio window. I guess this means we can not make the process produce too many ammonia too...

[Aaron]

reaction

I'm not really up on chemistry myself - but it should be
simple 1 + 1 or 1 - 1.

I'm only guessing about the following, but it seems to fit.

So are there MULTIPLE catalysts here?

Is the ammonia created in the compression chamber when compressed
and heated and in contact with a metal catalyst of tungsten or some other
metal on the plug?

Then once the ammonia is created, the plasma ignition ignites, burning
the HHO, which is a catalyst to combust the ammonia?

I have seen older studies of electricity and ambient air and water and
there are signs of ammonia or "ammonia bands" that are detected and
this is without a catalyst, without pressure and without heat. Some of
the studies show with a catalyst, with pressure and with heat. In any
case, the science already exists that 100% validates creating ammonia
fuel from nothing more than water, air and electricity and the references
go back to 1807 that I know of. That is more than 200 years!

[everwiser]

I knew I should have paid closer attention in Chemistry class. Thanks for the clarification Aaron.

[Aaron]

creation of ammonia

The reaction between nitrogen gas and hydrogen gas to produce ammonia gas is an exothermic equilibrium reaction, releasing 92.4kJ/mol of energy at 298K (25oC).

N2(g) nitrogen + 3H2(g) hydrogen heat, pressure, catalyst 2NH3(g)
ammonia H = -92.4 kJ mol-1

OR

N2(g) nitrogen + 3H2(g) hydrogen heat, pressure, catalyst 2NH3(g)
ammonia + 92.4 kJ mol-1

[Aaron]

ammonia reaction?

Tutanka posted this on Feb 01 in response to sucahyo's post. I mentioned
ammonia earlier than that but no comment.

Catalyst is HHO and ionized air is important to combust ammonia (that
other molecule). There may also be air that is not ionized.

Ammonia is what is created here - this is what Stan Meyer was doing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo

I think catalyst and air mixture is also important if the gas is NH3.

I think NH3 should be the goal, maybe deserve a new thread but let see the result of italian team first.

BTW, I feel like I repeating someone else word, someone that claim to have understood it. Sorry that I forget your name and where you post them.........

TUTANKA: Good illumination.. Regards

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tutanka post on 1/28...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo
Not before it explode. I am talking about the event after the explosion. The endothermic reaction part do not start before reaching very high temperature.

What you describe sound more like implosion after small explosion. I am talking about temperature after the combustion chamber reach plasma temperature.

I think the exothermic reaction(NH3/ammonia creation) will happen along with the first fire and help catalyst the burning. After the temperature reach the endothermic reaction requirement (HNO3 creation) it will made a bigger bang and sudden temperature drop because of big energy requirement, along with greener gas output. Only theory though.

Tutanka: Hello,
This is my consideration after test, thermal explosive energy is reached ONLY using an catalist because you forget that you use only water that not burn usually. In fact new fuel mixture must be unstable, water is stable so it does not react. Object of that project is create unstable mixture for reach an fastly exothermic reaction because you want use that into an engine that run at some rpm. We have called that "micronic fuel mixture" that react only with nascent plug and plasma. About Meyer.. I'm sure that inside injector of meyer is created low amount of catalist, not all water droplets are transformed inside..

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The creation of ammonia is an exothermic reaction. And normally happens
in the presence of a catalyst.

So are there MULTIPLE catalysts here?

Is the ammonia created in the compression chamber when compressed
and heated and in contact with a metal catalyst of tungsten or some other
metal on the plug?

Then once the ammonia is created, the plasma ignition ignites, burning
the HHO, which is a catalyst to combust the ammonia?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In either case, the "nitrogen hydroxide" is an ammonia fuel.

[everwiser]

I thought of this too. Look at the plasma ignition in open air, it is exploding
some moisture.

BUT... Rosco mentioned water from the air and then Tutanka said that there
is water and someday might be able to do it with just moisture in air.
Therefore, doesn't this mean that it is not about water in the air?

I evidently missed that statement from tutanka about "someday" and/or misunderstood due to the language barrier that exists. However, in more than one instance, it appears his group is steering us away from the need to produce very much HHO to support their method. This is what led me to believe it was happening at combustion. Not necessarily using the vapor in the air but rather lighting off a conditioned/ionized mist/steam along with the conditioned/ionized air entering the combustion chamber with the plasma plug. Being that they're not going to divulge anymore details, we're really just dancing around various ideas at this point. I'm just throwing mine "out there".

[Aaron]

nitrogen interest

My personal interest in nitrogen has nothing to do with diluting oxygen.

It has been clearly stated that the nitrogen acts as an EEC in the combustion
chamber during/after combustion to absorb electrons so that oxygen and
hydrogen won't bond together. I'm talking about atomic nitrogen that has
been stripped of electrons in an air processor.

The other purpose to me is for nitrogen to bond to the electrolyzed
hydrogen so that the nitrogen acts as a carrier for high densities of
hydrogen into the combustion chamber. More dense than even pure
liquid hydrogen.

If the exhaust is wholly or partially delivered back to a wfc, then there is
atomic nitrogen there that is positively charged that seems that it would
most easily bind to the hydrogen.

[tutanka]

I see - well, as you know we spent months and moths together debating things, we even understod things that h2opower didn't and togetehr advanced in many fields. I shared information with you and you shared information with me as you did with this group and in h2opower's tread. And now that I understod on my own what it was all about you are trying to drive the group to a position where they now all of a sudden should piss on me becouse you demand them to. I know you have used some of my words in this tread and also, don't forgett that for a long time you did not believe in the process you have now developed.

You changed your mind, not me and that is fine by me, I also told you that I respected your desition to not talk with me anymore and now you behave like h2opower when we posted an alternative method to a certain process in his tread etc...

Same old same old - but not a problem - the next thing you shoudl do now is to behave as a mature man and complaine to Aaron that I "stole" your idea that you posted here and band me.. why not.

Yes Tutanka, there is only ONE side of the coin, how could I forgett - I am a basterd...

How about all the stuff you resieved from others during the R&D process, things you did not construct yourself, help from experts that you brought into your team.. how about that. I did all of my research on my own - I am one, not many...
So sitt on your high horse and become your enemy!!!

So now, go to the other groups and say the same thing you did here in your last post....

"The truth is what you make of it"

AND I AM TOO MUCH INTELLIGENT IN ORDER I MAKE ME TO ABSORB FROM YOUR VORTEX. YOU HAVE SUPPLIED ME HERE PRESENT INFORMATION? THEN YOU WRITE CHEMICAL REACTION. .SE INDEED THE MIND YOU ARE. IT DEMONSTRATES IT AND NOT TO SAY I CANNOT. .OF AN THING YOU HAVE REASON YOU ARE OWN A BASTARD!!