Ionization & Water Fuel

[Aaron]

ionization

That is something I still confuse too .....

Forget about all the confusing stuff.

Simply, what does it mean to ionize oxygen?

[sucahyo]

I'm hoping you will spell out the sequential steps of what happens to an oxygen molecule as it enters an ionization process and exits.

That is something I still confuse too .....

The N, H and NH3 graph balance I post earlier show relation of atom and NH3 molecule depend on temperature. I imagine if we add oxygen in there, we should see chaos in the graph....

What make it confusing is there can be many atom combination, many balance or one way equation depend on many variable. It is possible that what is combust may not be a stable molecule, just like hidroxy powered engine.

At least we know there can be NOx, water vapor and NH3 at output. There will be more NH3 and less NOx if there is more hydrogen input. Or even H2 at output:
high H2 exhaust emissions

[Aaron]

ionization

and prove that meyer do use every gas contained in ambient air such as nitrogen and oxygen. In this patent the ambient air do not even need to be ionized. In news Meyer also mention that ionized air is optional.

If Meyer talk about molecule, then it consist of Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen. So, a process that only ionize spesific gas is wrong. Selective ionization is wrong. Avoiding nitrogen ionization is wrong.

So Meyer ionizes oxygen.

Selective ionization is wrong, I agree with you. I have never said that
oxygen does not get ionized but I can see that some people think I am
implying that by mentioning ionization of nitrogen - that's fine. Some people
see things as they are other make up stories in their own mind about
what they think they are seeing. I think you're seeing things pretty clear.

Avoiding nitrogen ionization is wrong, I agree with you. Not only is it
wrong, it is naive for some to believe that nitrogen turns into Ninja
molecules that stealthily sneaks through an ionizer without getting
ionized - and some that believe that hydrogen won't bind to the ionized
nitrogen is doubly or actually triply naive.

Sucahyo, you're seeing things pretty clear.

I'm hoping you will spell out the sequential steps of what happens to an
oxygen molecule as it enters an ionization process and exits.

[sucahyo]

Sorry but for me don't have sense.. I suggest you to study pulsed corona discharge.. Regards

The circuit I see for corona ionizing use awesome power (10 amp 10000V). I only want to use my 1.2 watt version of HV generator. The application seems to be either voltage onlyonly, insulated electrode or silent discharge.

What is commonly said to happen specifically to oxygen in Meyer's process? It is something that Meyer fans like to repeat over and over about what happens to oxygen in the ionization process.

According to Meyer Patents CA1227094:
espacenet — Bibliographic data

Summary of the process is:
Water droplet is break into Oxygen and Hydrogen with the help of 40KV DC. The mixed it with part of exhaust air and then with ambient air. This is not water fuel injector process, but it still Meyer. and prove that meyer do use every gas contained in ambient air such as nitrogen and oxygen. In this patent the ambient air do not even need to be ionized. In news Meyer also mention that ionized air is optional.

The system utilizes the hydrogen generator of my co-pending patent application serial no. 420,908, for developing hydrogen gas, and other non-combustible gases such as oxygen and nitrogen. ... The combined hydrogen, non-combustible gases, and the air after intermixing are fed to a combustion chamber where in the mixture is ignited. The exhaust gases of the combustion chamber are returned in a closed loop arrangement to the mixing chamber to provide the non-combustible gases for the mixture. More spesifically, generated hydrogen gas is fed to a gas mixing chamber where it is intermixed with non-combustible gases and such gas mixture is the fed to a carburetor (air-mixture) system
...
The gas mixture combine with the air to form a combustible mixture of hydrogen, non-combustible gas, and oxygen.
...
Further, as understood oxygen is required for combustion, and it is present in ambient air that enters into the gas mixture line through the air intake. Again, the ambient air is understood to contain many and variable gases other than oxygen.

What oxygen do in this particular system depend on the source. From water it will form combustible gases along with hydrogen and non-combustible gases. From ambient air, to help combustion.

Anyway,
1. Meyer also had a process that produce combustible gases from hydrogen, oxygen and some non-combustible gas.

2. Meyer mention that non-combustible gases are oxygen and nitrogen. However, when oxygen already explicitily mentioned, it is wise to assume that the non-combustible gas refer to nitrogen.

3. In this patent Gas processor do not exist.

4. In this patent the fuel is not molecule with only hydrogen as its component. The fuel is not hydrogen.The fuel is combustible gases from mixed of three gas type.


If Meyer talk about molecule, then it consist of Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen. So, in this spesific implementation a process that only ionize spesific gas is wrong , and avoiding nitrogen ionization is wrong.

[vrand]

Hello..
Yes, all depend not from chemical formula that remain the same but from system that produce new combustible. I have just found an solution for don't use nascent plug.. Regards

Hi,
That is interesting. So can we still use our regular sparkplugs? And use our existing ignition system also? Or will need to update ignition system?
Regards, Mike R.

[tutanka]

Hi,
Does your Water system come in different sizes, for small engines to large? Will the Nascent Plugs (plasma plugs) be standard for using in different size engines?
Regards, Mike R.

Hello..
Yes, all depend not from chemical formula that remain the same but from system that produce new combustible. I have just found an solution for don't use nascent plug.. Regards

[vrand]

Tim..
I have decided to mount Water system directy on LPG generator made in greenpower.cn. Model used is CC5000-LPG. Engine is an 4 stroke 398cc.. now Im working on that and I aspect to finish for the end of this month.. Next prototype an chevrolet matiz 1000cc..
Only for curiosity.. how proceed the work of h2opower? In all cases I respect him.

Hi,
Does your Water system come in different sizes, for small engines to large? Will the Nascent Plugs (plasma plugs) be standard for using in different size engines?
Regards, Mike R.

[Aaron]

oxygen

I am using conventional science. "when ionize N is exposed with ionized H," in an ionizer of whatever form, the balance between resulting N2, H2 and NH3 will be predicted by graph bellow

What is commonly said to happen specifically to oxygen in Meyer's
process? It is something that Meyer fans like to repeat over and over
about what happens to oxygen in the ionization process.

[Aaron]

nh3

So you might as well include yourself in with us as to what "His" process is.

There is more than one way to skin a cat and they all deal with NH3
production.

[tutanka]

ionizer is heat, plasma, spark, HV, microwave, LED, Laser, etc. And the graph suggest that temperature should not be too high. WIki also confirm this mentioning similar heat limit.

By theory if the middle tube H is all combined with N then there is more O left. This O if combined with NH3 can form HNO3, nitric acid. Nitric acid is said to disassociate at room temperature, maybe tube temperature should be cold?

Sorry for not getting it clear enough. Yes, that diagram is Meyer's mixer. I don't know tutanka method and I also seek other non Meyer's ionizer.

I propose to make it a tube inside a tube inside a tube, a deviation from Meyer design. The middle is wire that being charged with pulsed high voltage positive and first outer tube charged with pulsed high voltage negative.

Because H2O will break into 2H+ and O- when excited with electricity, the most inner one will produce H+ and O-. Since the middle wire is positive, the middle is O- because O will be attracted to "positive electrical voltage potential", and the outer is H+ because H will be attracted to "negative electrical voltage potential".

See page 1-16 (23) of Meyer Technical Brief if you still confuse about this O- and H+.

Second layer is Ambient air which I assume will contain ionized N- and O- because I am not sure which one more positive, maybe N, and to give indication that N maybe more likely to combine with H+ instead of O-, because unlike pole attract more. Last layer is exhaust gas which I assume will contain ionized N-, O- and H+.

Sorry but for me don't have sense.. I suggest you to study pulsed corona discharge.. Regards

[sucahyo]

If you elaborate just a bit more on the underlined part of your sentence, you may wind up explaining one of the keys.

I am using conventional science. "when ionize N is exposed with ionized H," in an ionizer of whatever form, the balance between resulting N2, H2 and NH3 will be predicted by graph bellow:


ionizer is heat, plasma, spark, HV, microwave, LED, Laser, etc. And the graph suggest that temperature should not be too high. WIki also confirm this mentioning similar heat limit.

By theory if the middle tube H is all combined with N then there is more O left. This O if combined with NH3 can form HNO3, nitric acid. Nitric acid is said to disassociate at room temperature, maybe tube temperature should be cold?


BTW, since spark seems damaging my monitor, I found that I can safely use insulated electrode type of ionizer. I don't have coated tube so I just use insulated wire. Configured in a spark distance I can smell ozone:

Sorry but that diagram don't have any sense.. O-, O+, H+, H-... for me you are more confused.. I don't understand what is your project.. I suppose that your idea is use an NTP reactor but image that you have posted don't have sense.. that in fact is mix part of STEAM RESONATOR.. regards

Sorry for not getting it clear enough. Yes, that diagram is Meyer's mixer. I don't know tutanka method and I also seek other non Meyer's ionizer.

I propose to make it a tube inside a tube inside a tube, a deviation from Meyer design. The middle is wire that being charged with pulsed high voltage positive and first outer tube charged with pulsed high voltage negative.

Because H2O will break into 2H+ and O- when excited with electricity, the most inner one will produce H+ and O-. Since the middle wire is positive, the middle is O- because O will be attracted to "positive electrical voltage potential", and the outer is H+ because H will be attracted to "negative electrical voltage potential".

See page 1-16 (23) of Meyer Technical Brief if you still confuse about this O- and H+.

Second layer is Ambient air which I assume will contain ionized N- and O- because I am not sure which one more positive, maybe N, and to give indication that N maybe more likely to combine with H+ instead of O-, because unlike pole attract more. Last layer is exhaust gas which I assume will contain ionized N-, O- and H+.

[chasson321]

last edit...

[tutanka]

Aaron,

on this page alone there are at least three people who have no idea what Tutanka's process is, hence "We".

Even tutanka states it is more than just NH3. So you might as well include yourself in with us as to what "His" process is.

Again, I hope Tutanka does have something that works. However, if he is being truthful, what he has on his mind and possibly on the table is not what you or anyone else here has brought up.


Still, just a man with questions.

Tim

Tim..
I have decided to mount Water system directy on LPG generator made in greenpower.cn. Model used is CC5000-LPG. Engine is an 4 stroke 398cc.. now Im working on that and I aspect to finish for the end of this month.. Next prototype an chevrolet matiz 1000cc..
Only for curiosity.. how proceed the work of h2opower? In all cases I respect him.

[chasson321]

last edit...

[tutanka]

Yes, pulsed DC will make the atom ionize longer. However, spark or silent discharge (although mine is loud now lol) produce ion at the same place and not separating it like what separate electrode do.

I can't think of a way to produce only positive ion. It seems the efficient one is bipolar. Just like electrolysis in a water. If we only introduce only one pole in the water, the whole water become that polarity without any electrolysis going on.


The picture I post before can be a pulsed DC HV polarized copper tube:


O- at the center is where positive wire located, etc.

In theory, when ionize N is exposed with ionized H, there should be more NH3 upon exitting the tube.

If honda can claim to collect NH3 with such fast movement of gas in the exhaust without spark and only diesel exhaust temperature. With spark or HV it should be possible too.

Sorry but that diagram don't have any sense.. O-, O+, H+, H-... for me you are more confused.. I don't understand what is your project.. I suppose that your idea is use an NTP reactor but image that you have posted don't have sense.. that in fact is mix part of STEAM RESONATOR.. regards