Water Sparkplug

[professor]

MOV's

maybe we can somehow use transil diodes like the 1.5KE15A, these are designed to absorb high voltage spikes and can handle very powerful pulses. I use these for my attraction motor instead of a neon bulb and they work very fine. They have a peak pulse power of 1500W. Thanks to lighty for this idea.
Here is a datasheet:
http://www.argus.lv/pub/datasheets/1_5KE_C_CA.pdf
Maybe we can put these diodes in parallel to the 12V input and they will start to conduct only if voltage becomes greater than 15V and discharge that spike to the ground. I am no expert so maybe someone can show us how to use these correctly.

We used MOV's when I was still doing Electronic design and Repairs.
They were basically a back to back Zener and had a fast response and high current capabilities.
Perhaps there are newer devices out there,but I still see MOV's used today.
Varistor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
professor

[professor]

Thanks Chris
In that case the circuit should look like this:


The 12v side diode is rated for 15V and the inverter output size diode is rated for 150V. Of course those who are working with 230V inverters should use diodes with greater breakdown voltages on the AC side. And of course the diodes should better be bidirectional. For example the 1.5KE150A is a unidirectional diode, but 1.5KE150CA is a bidirectional one, so look for those who have a "C" in the name When you have installed them, you should also check their temperatures. If they get too hot, then maybe you need more of them in parallel or just attach a heatsink to the diode. Also to be absolutely sure, you ans put another 1.5KE150CA diode on the other side of the isolation transformer
Thanks,
Jetijs

Can't use a unidirectional on AC use a MOV
professor

[professor]

Thanks Chris
In that case the circuit should look like this:


The 12v side diode is rated for 15V and the inverter output size diode is rated for 150V. Of course those who are working with 230V inverters should use diodes with greater breakdown voltages on the AC side. And of course the diodes should better be bidirectional. For example the 1.5KE150A is a unidirectional diode, but 1.5KE150CA is a bidirectional one, so look for those who have a "C" in the name When you have installed them, you should also check their temperatures. If they get too hot, then maybe you need more of them in parallel or just attach a heatsink to the diode. Also to be absolutely sure, you ans put another 1.5KE150CA diode on the other side of the isolation transformer
Thanks,
Jetijs

Can't use a unidirectional across an AC line puff..... use a MOV
professor

[Gibs]

MOT as an inverter

@Greg and anyone interested,

I've been thinking about the isolation transformer cost, availability and all this. It seems to be the only down side at this time for replicators.

I have an idea ... MOT's are easily available and can be next to free. When you think of it ... it is an isolation transformer!... just at a much higher voltage on the secondary side. I propose we move your VexUs circuit to a new level... HV that is. Use a MOT as isolation transformer and feed the HV directly to the circuit. Obviously you would have to drop you Capacitance value by much and make your FWBR with HV diodes but I think that would be the only thing you may need to change. Also many have been noticing the benefit of Higher Voltages.

So what do you think of this idea? Are you willing to test it? if so I would suggest using a Variac to start at a low voltage and slowly raise it if it works. Maybe the .7uf to 1uf microwave oven capacitors could end up being the correct size for the circuit?

Just an idea. Let me know what you think of this.

Luc

Great idea Luc,

We should be able to use a MOT as an inverter, as is.
The primary can be switched by a Mosfet as the couple of turns winding may serve as an oscillation feedback. Why not???

I this forum!

Gibs

[Gibs]

Modified alternator

Mike,
... It would be possible to utilize a rewired alternator but I would see two problems,

1. You need the room to mount it
2. The voltage increases at the RPM's increase.

I'm not sure if this would be the best solution, but if you would like to know how to do it then I would be glad to explain it to you.

Just my 2 cents but who knows I could be wrong.

What does every one else think?

LapperL

Hi LapperL,

I congratulate you for your patience. I've winded a lot of transformers but never tried an alternator.
I am wondering how much amps you've been able to pull out from this modified one.

You know, I don't think that #2 is an issue as we need more power with higher RPM.

Keep up trying new experiments guys, this is the only way we will discover the right way to go.



Gibs

[lapperl]

Hi LapperL,

I congratulate you for your patience. I've winded a lot of transformers but never tried an alternator.
I am wondering how much amps you've been able to pull out from this modified one.

You know, I don't think that #2 is an issue as we need more power with higher RPM.

Keep up trying new experiments guys, this is the only way we will discover the right way to go.



Gibs

Thanks Gibs,

I actually received the directions on how to rewind the alternator from Kevin West at Waterforfuel.com. He has been working with LRC circuits using the high voltage alternator to fracture distilled water in his WFC.

The amps are significantly deceased when you rewire the alternators stator for high voltage. In my WFC using distilled water I reached 92 VDC with 4 amps.

When I referred to higher voltages at higher RPM's, I have reached in excess of 500 VDC on my bench top setup using an electric motor to spin the alternator. I achieved this at approximately 6,000 RPM's.

At approximately 2,000 RPM's it is at 120 VDC. The voltage output apears to be load dependent. For when I attach my fuel cell circuit at this speed, the voltage drops to 45 vdc. At 3450 it drops to the 92 VDC that I stated earlier.

If the higher voltages can be regulated in the circuit so that we do not weld the spark plugs, and the voltage drop is not too much, then I guess you would be right and it would be a benefit to us.

@ Everyone,
If anybody has any ideas as to the best way to test this theory, then I am open to suggestions and willing to experiment. I already have the alternator ready to go.

LapperL

[Gibs]

MOT experiment

I hooked up the MOT primary and the bulb in a continuous line from the 460VDC+ through to the discharge cap +. The plasma still functions normally, there is definitly "juice" on the secondary of the MOT, it just pegged out my meter!! Someone please tell me how to exactly hook up the diode and cap to this thing............................................M ike

Hi Mike,

Back from the week-end I've found a lot to read, you guys are fantastic, you never stop and that's the way to go.

I'm a lot busy right now so instead of drawing a schematic I'll try to explaine shortly.

The secondary winding of the MOT have one side connected to the ground and the other side connected to the connector that is alone somewhere on the top or the side.

So it goes like this: One side of a MW capacitor is connected to MOT ground (laminations) and the other side of capacitor is connected to the anode of a MW diode. The cathode side of MW diode goes to the MOT secondary output connector. The voltage is measured between the two leads of the capacitor.

Now BEWARE of high voltage spikes because it might be over a thousand volts (maybe several) if my theory is right.
Also, you might have to reverse the diode to get higher voltage (depending on spike polarity).

You might notice that when a load is connected at that MW capacitor it will change the MOT primary impedance.
IMO, bigger the charge on the MOT secondary, lower will be the impedance of primary. Very interesting if you'd like to recycle some energy.

Also, if there is a couple of thousand volts at secondary, we might be able to use it as a primary discharge piggy-backed by current passing through MOT primary. If the back EMF is in phase with the pulse, we should be able to get more output for less input.
Just thinking out loud...

Thanks for sharing.

Gibs

[gotoluc]

Great idea Luc,

We should be able to use a MOT as an inverter, as is.
The primary can be switched by a Mosfet as the couple of turns winding may serve as an oscillation feedback. Why not???

I this forum!

Gibs

Yes Gibs,

yes I agree!...we don't even need an inverter. Just pulse the MOT primary with 12vdc to the frequency of choice to obtain voltage of choice and you have it all and with isolation. We could also use the AC (pre diodes) of the alternator and would work in perfect sync. with higher frequency demands as the engine revs up.

Seems you're the only one to like this idea though.

Luc

[vzon17]

Alternator Use

Well you don't have to rewire the alternator, if you have a second alternator just remove the diodes in there and you get 3 phase AC coming out of it. Bypass the regulator to max and you should be able to get about 3000 watts out of it at 120 or more volts.
Run it straight to a FWBR and your all set. tons of power. and any back spikes can't hurn it because it has really thick wire in it. Maybe get a small alternator out of some foreign jobby and put a small pully on it so it spins faster and you have a constant source of high voltage that goes up with engine speed.

I was thinking as some point to rebulid an alternaor and replace the rotor winding with two large neo ring magnets. then it does need current to make power. it will generate without any input then.

[poii]

MOTly Circuit Again

Here's my post from page 43.

LapperLL, et all

Here is the inverterless circuit I described a few pages back only with an automotive coil and the primaries in parallel. C1 charges to ~300v when the points close and discharges when the plug fires. It has the db and uv we all have come to know and love.


On the subject of EMI:
My O'scope went blank every time the plug fired so I did some research today and found that ngk makes 5&10k ohm resistor connector caps for spark plugs.
You could connect the 300v to the plug after the resistor using shielded audio or RG6 tv cable. With the MOT, c1 and the diodes in a metal box, the plug would be the only part unshielded. RG6 solid core might have vibration fatigue problems if not well secured.

Thanks to Everyone

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/1315d1223627256-water-sparkplug-motly.bmp

[gotoluc]

Here's my post from page 43.



http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...plug-motly.bmp

Hi poii,

thanks for re-posting your circuit. I do remember seeing it but I wasn't understanding what the direction of your idea was at the time. So from the sounds of it you have built this and tested this circuit with a MOT?

Do you mind if I post your suggested circuit at the Overunity Forum so others can see it.

Thanks for re-sharing

Luc

[lapperl]

Well you don't have to rewire the alternator, if you have a second alternator just remove the diodes in there and you get 3 phase AC coming out of it. Bypass the regulator to max and you should be able to get about 3000 watts out of it at 120 or more volts.
Run it straight to a FWBR and your all set. tons of power. and any back spikes can't hurn it because it has really thick wire in it. Maybe get a small alternator out of some foreign jobby and put a small pully on it so it spins faster and you have a constant source of high voltage that goes up with engine speed.

I was thinking as some point to rebulid an alternaor and replace the rotor winding with two large neo ring magnets. then it does need current to make power. it will generate without any input then.

@Vzon17,
I can't say for sure because I never tested it before the diode bridge, but I do not believe that a standard stator will be able to supply the voltage that we are looking for. From what I can see from all of the voltage doublers, triplers and quadruplers people are using they are looking for around 400 VDC and up. I've experimented with Ford alternators (which use external voltage regulators) and have only been able to achieve 22 to 24 VDC attached to my WFC. Lots of amps, but not very much voltage. With the rewired stator I am able to achieve 120 VDC at 2,000 RPM's and 500 VDC at aproximetly 6,000 RPM's. As you know the crank shaft pulley of the engine is several times larger than the alternator pulley (around 4 times) and 6,000 RPM's at the alternator is not that hard to achieve.

Just so everyone knows, rewinding an alternator stator is not very difficult at all and not very expensive, around $50.00 US.

I will perform some tests on a factory stator to see what types of voltage I can get out of it at different speeds. Who knows, it maybe enough. I am just going by my past experiences with WFC experiments.

LapperL

[Tishatang]

High voltage alternator

Hi All

Denso makes a bifiler stator coil alternator. By rewiring the coils in series you can double the voltage. No need to rewind the alternator. See here:

Alternate Power

tishatang

[Gibs]

AC out from alternator

And what if we connect a MOT directly at the output windings of the alternator? As we all know, AC is coming out of it.

We might be able to obtain several hundred volts with a bunch of amps.

Gibs

[gotoluc]

And what if we connect a MOT directly at the output windings of the alternator? As we all know, AC is coming out of it.

We might be able to obtain several hundred volts with a bunch of amps.

Gibs

That is my exact though but I don't know too much about the bunch of amps. High voltage is more appealing to me as I have found and also user Unclefester that the effect is better with HV.

What we need is the VexUs-HV powered only by a MOT fed by the AC of the alternator.

Luc