Water Sparkplug

[gmeast]

Wow!

Hello all
I tried many things to get the reed switch to work fine on the 300v side, I even tried to limit the cap charge to 200v using some zener diodes and a transistor, but that did not help either. So I decided to get a optocoupler with a DIAC on the output that can handle up to 600v. This optocoupler was then used to trigger the SCR and the reedswitch was now on the 12v side. After all this is the circuit I have now:



So I made a video about how this circuit behaves on a gas generator. Here it is:

YouTube - Water spark test on a gas generator

You can hear how the RPM's go up when I power ON my variac and how they go down when the variac is turned OFF. This does not happen instantly, because of the heavy flywheel. The booster cap voltage was about 300-400V, did not measure yet, but I will try go up to 800v, my voltage quadrupler should handle that. The throttle on the generator is fixed down.

Jetijs,

WOW! That's fantastic. Sounds nice and smooth. Al least I know now that a reed switch concept will work to trigger my triac(s) when I get to that stage in my experimentation. Thanks for sharing.

Peace,

Greg

[Aaron]

great test!

Great work Jetijs!

You proved that the plasma absolutely increases what is burning. We found this on the lawnmower and Revizal evidently is seeing this with his bike.

Do you have a preferred waste spark solution in case you run with HHO added to the intake?

[Jetijs]

Do you have a preferred waste spark solution in case you run with HHO added to the intake?

Hi Aaron.
I was thinking about this and I think that the best way would be to use a 2:1 gear or pulley system, but that would not be easy. We could do this using a circuit which allows only every second pulse to do its work, but then again, how would the circuit know on which pulse to start so that it filters out the waste pulses and not the power pulses? Although this would be preferable, I don't think that the waste spark will make much trouble especially if we will be able to go past TDC, then the waste spark would actually help, at least in a 4stroke engine.

Thanks,
Jetijs

[Aaron]

waste spark?

Hi Jetijs,

A 2:1 seems to be the best solution but you told me before between the engine and generator there is no space to get to the shaft. I did read somewhere someone had an extension sticking out the generator or something and they used that as a shaft to turn a 2:1 but I'm not sure how they did that. Most generators I've seen are sealed on 1 end on these generators unless they drilled it out and replaced the shaft. More work that I'd prefer.

Also thought about a counter to do every other one.

Do you know of a vacuum switch that would trigger each time definitely on highest or lowest vacuum?

Even if the waste spark was on or after tdc, it could still spark to the gas input from bubbler, etc... or would it?

[Aaron]

waste spark

Jetijs,

Someone posted a link to this...in this forum I think. I copied the posts..here they are... from Wouter I think??? There were some pics but I don't have those in this...

-----------

Ignition system for small engines running on Hydroxy ONLY

[Aaron]

waste spark 2

Hi Everyone

Find below an important posting that Les asked me to post on his behalf:

Overview & explanation of my complete Engine Control Unit design.

In order to AVOID future misunderstandings, I decided to write this overview/explanation but first, I wish to make some VERY IMPORTANT statements and I ask ALL readers: Please make sure you UNDERSTAND them!

The Engine Control Unit (ECU) design I am presenting to the public, IN ITSELF,
is NO GUARANTEE to produce enough Hydroxy to run any engine!

The VOLUME of Hydroxy will depend almost ENTIRELY on what kind of electrolysis system is used.
And so, here is the BIG question:
Which of the two options (below) do you prefer?

[michaelpaul]

WOW, thats a lot of very good information. I am glad that it was posted in such a manner that even I can understand, not being an engineer of anything.
Thanks

[gmeast]

Circuit from Signature Trace

Hi all,

The attached diagram is a simple circuit that synchs to the ac line input so the circuit can be rapidly cycled at 60 Hz and was used in my last video. It adheres to the original Gotoluc-Lindemann isolation configuration ... that is to say ... a dedicated Cap charging switch and a dedicated Cap discharging switch ... just like using the DPDT or SPDT electromechanical relay. The signal conditioners are two 10:1 voltage dividers but could also be two 10:1 step down xformers like 120VAC to 12VAC. The discharge SSR gets warm because of the initial current that can be as high as 120 amps but only for about 1 micro second. The Mosfet SSR's are only rated for 12 A so the 10 ohm-50 W inrush current limiter is critical and must be used at the charging end. Any current limiter at the discharge end kills the VA to the coil.

The manufacturers of the SSR's recommend circuit protection diodes across ALL loads ... so that's why there's one on the booster Cap also. According to them "...every load is inductive...". Fine with me!

This is not an ideal circuit, but I wanted to cycle two switches a 60 Hz and this was simplest for me.

Peace,

Greg

[Gibs]

Water lubricant

Thanks Aaron for all these pertinent infos, you know your stuff man.

...It should be obvious that with Hydroxy as the ONLY fuel, the use of 2 stroke engines are ruled out since they require oil to be mixed with their fuel for lubrication...

Les Banki
(electronic design engineer)
Water Fuel & LBE Technologies

With water as fuel, glycerine might be a good solution for lubrication. After been mixed with water, it still mixed even if left alone for a long period of time.

There's no need to put a lot of glycerine in water since it's about as thick as honey.

I've measured the electrical resistance of distilled water and when I add some glycerine to it, it even go higher. In a way, it enhances the dielectric properties of water. Good for us.

Keep up

[Aaron]

emulsified water

Hi Gibs,

I can't take credit for those last couple posts on waste spark, I just pasted it from a word doc.

Emulsified water has been proven in diesel engines already. With this plasma, it might burn well and provide enough lubrication.

[peteroks]

to arron

hi peter here
as a keen follower of all the action here i feel there has been great progress to a point -- many have a plasma setup working and have adapted it to a simple b and s motor .This is important but it seems that there is no direction form this point on in this forum --to move on --, instead there is just constant circuit adjustments to an already proven working plasma plug setup --------- without being able to fire that plug on water,just petrol/vapour----arron u need to review where you are where you need to take a positive direction for running a water fueled engine or do you prefer to just go around in circles--- if so the more enlightened of us will move on

[gmeast]

direction?

hi peter here
as a keen follower of all the action here i feel there has been great progress to a point -- many have a plasma setup working and have adapted it to a simple b and s motor .This is important but it seems that there is no direction form this point on in this forum --to move on --, instead there is just constant circuit adjustments to an already proven working plasma plug setup --------- without being able to fire that plug on water,just petrol/vapour----arron u need to review where you are where you need to take a positive direction for running a water fueled engine or do you prefer to just go around in circles--- if so the more enlightened of us will move on

Hi all,

I for one believe all of the "circuit adjustments" are valuable. I'm working component-wise and configuration-wise toward something that will support 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

CDI's are common these days but many have conveyed that they can not be adapted to produce the "plasma - water burning effect". Getting a plug to fire and produce this effect every 1/25th to 1/30th of a second is significant even if it has only been applied to a B. & S. engine.

If a distributor type approach is pursued then it becomes quite a task because of the the shorter periods involved ... say for an 8-cyl. engine (that's every 1/200th of a second for 3,000 rpm). If a 'one coil per plug' approach is pursued then that's different.

My latest posts indicating some of the characteristics of the "effect" have gone mostly without comment. The latest post I've shared shows a circuit producing the effect at a rate of 60Hz - or 1/60th of a second being equivalent to a single cylinder B. & S. going 7,200 RPM! It does not have long strings of diodes and light bulbs. It is condensed but still produces the effect. It consumes 65 Watts and that's a little high but that will come down.

I think there is plenty of direction in this thread. I think people are learning and building things that otherwise would not be learned or built.

And thank you Aaron for starting this thread in the first place!

Again:

YouTube - sgnature trace

Peace,

Greg

[Jetijs]

Aaron, thank you for the valuable info. That means that we indeed need to solve the waste spark issue. My favorite solution so far is a 2:1 gear system. We can not use a belt driven pulley system, because if the smaller pulley wont be exatcly 2 times smaller in diameter than the bigger one, then there will be a small delay in timing on each revolution and in about 1000 revolutions the timing will be way off. So we need to use a gear system with 2:1 tooth ratio. I found that there is a perfect 2:1 gearing in a lawnmover engine. This is what controls the valve opening/closing time. Here is a photo:



So maybe we can figure out a clever way to use these. But maybe I will cnc machine my own gears, will see. But I found a perfect place in my generator where to attach this gear system.



This is the generator side end part with the protective cover taken off. There is a long bolt in the middle of the bearing that is used to press the generator shaft on the cone shaped engine shaft. We could do some lathe work on this bolt and make a thread in it so we can bolt a small shaft on it. Also we can use those two mounting holes on the sides to attach the whole gear system to the generator side. This will be a big advantage, because we no longer would need to use the magneto side and a reedswitch, now we will be able to use some optoswitches and modify the timing on the fly. This is hard to do on the magneto side. Also to be able to attach the reed switch on the magneto side, I had to cut away some pieces of the protective metal cover that also does some cooling functions in directing the air flow from the magneto fan to the engine, this is why now I can not run the system for long times, because it would overheat. With the timing on the generator side I can weld those protective plates back on and eliminate the cooling problem

[poii]

Bigger Engines

Hi all,

I for one believe all of the "circuit adjustments" are valuable. I'm working component-wise and configuration-wise toward something that will support 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

CDI's are common these days but many have conveyed that they can not be adapted to produce the "plasma - water burning effect". Getting a plug to fire and produce this effect every 1/25th to 1/30th of a second is significant even if it has only been applied to a B. & S. engine.

If a distributor type approach is pursued then it becomes quite a task because of the the shorter periods involved ... say for an 8-cyl. engine (that's every 1/200th of a second for 3,000 rpm). If a 'one coil per plug' approach is pursued then that's different.

My latest posts indicating some of the characteristics of the "effect" have gone mostly without comment. The latest post I've shared shows a circuit producing the effect at a rate of 60Hz - or 1/60th of a second being equivalent to a single cylinder B. & S. going 7,200 RPM! It does not have long strings of diodes and light bulbs. It is condensed but still produces the effect. It consumes 65 Watts and that's a little high but that will come down.

I think there is plenty of direction in this thread. I think people are learning and building things that otherwise would not be learned or built.

And thank you Aaron for starting this thread in the first place!

Again:

YouTube - sgnature trace

Peace,

Greg

Greg et al

It's been a few years, but the last time I looked under the hood of a
Subaru I remember noticing no distributor and a coil per plug. That could solve variable/dual timing spark and, cap charge-time problems.

On another note:

I have a small MOT, microswitched 12v on the pri, sec charging a 15mf cap to 307v through a 1n4007. With a 2n6054 darlington switch on pri, charge is 288v.

Thanks to all for a most interesting and civil forum.

[gmeast]

charge time

Greg et al

It's been a few years, but the last time I looked under the hood of a
Subaru I remember noticing no distributor and a coil per plug. That could solve variable/dual timing spark and, cap charge-time problems.

On another note:

I have a small MOT, microswitched 12v on the pri, sec charging a 15mf cap to 307v through a 1n4007. With a 2n6054 darlington switch on pri, charge is 288v.

Thanks to all for a most interesting and civil forum.

Hi Poii,

Thanks for replying. Yes you are right. It may be asking too much to use a distributor-type ignition concept for the plasma application. A dedicated Signal-Circuit-Coil-Plug approach is looking better and better.

The 4007 handles the 15uf cap inrush?...WOW?!

Thanks Poii. Peace,

Greg