Water Sparkplug

[jstadwater]

Question @ Greg.................

Hey Greg,

Quick question, you said your transistor heat sinks have a thermal resistence of 5. Since I am going to mount a small fan for each transistor, a lower resistence would take the heat from the transistor more quickly, correct? Anyway, if I take heat away from the transistor quicker, and then disipate it from the sink with a fan, I may be able to keep them cool enough on the V-8 setup to just use one unit instead of two......that is the question, do you think that will work for me? I was able to find almost all the parts from DigiKey, I will have to get the ceramic resistors and transformer from somewhere else. Let me know what you think..............................Mike

[ashtweth]

Thanks AC, Greg Luc et all for the interesting rants on the air fuel ratio's that's precisely the information that makes your documents stand out, the logic and merit behind it, ill be adding that in later 2night.

Now Jeff (Ozi cell) is making us a custom spark plug to try out shortly, i think he is making a ball tip on it, also got all the Stuff for Luc's test will get a snap of the set up in a few days just need to find the lights, this is using the voltage quad, Schemo and more is updated in your PDF.

Ash

[jstadwater]

I did Navy boot camp in San Diego in '87, it's beautiful out there. When this is all said and done, everyone involved should meet face to face at a central location, won't that be a party! We could discuss everything it took to get where we will soon be...................................Mike

[gmeast]

time

COOL Greg,

I will DEFINITELY tune back in at eleven, would that be Pacific Standard Time?

Mike

Yeah dude ... PST. I'm in Southern California, San Diego county specifically.

Surf's up!

Peace,

Greg

[jstadwater]

COOL Greg,

I will DEFINITELY tune back in at eleven, would that be Pacific Standard Time?

Mike

[jstadwater]

Suburban, plasma functional................

Hey Guys,

As you all know, I fried the inverter I had hooked up to my Suburban. The VexUs circuit itself is already functional, just have to build a reliable voltage scource. SO, for this video the VexUs circuit is plugged into a wall outlet for the 115VAC. The QUAD shielded satallite/cable wire is working out very nice. Easy hookups, no shorts to ground, no RF noise on radio, it looks nice, and no interference with my OBD2 program. It was easy as pie to pop a plugwire off the distributor and unscrew the corresponding cable wire from the cable splitter to add in an external plug for video purposes. That way I did not have to undo the connection at the plug end!

This test was to verify that I was actually getting plasma at the plugs, since my discharge cap and voltage tripler are both mounted in the rear floor-board inside the Suburban. I used the farthest connection from the discharge cap to hook up the test plug. I saw no difference in spark intensity or plasma sound, (vs. on the bench) I thought maybe the cap was too far from the "event", I guess it makes it up there just fine.....as you will see in the vid.

My next test will be to use the ECM re-programmer I have and lean out the fuel mixture, one ratio step at a time, and then test it. My program will allow a max of 24 to 1 air/fuel, it will be interesting to see how far I can go with it.

During the vid, I had my boss to switch off the plasma circuit a couple times, notice how long it takes the spark to return to normal. Of course, I am only at idle speed, but I think it speaks to great abounds of the stability of the VexUs circuit, this is a V-8! The plasma created here is with 450VDC and a discharge capacitence of 2.5uF. Here's the vid link:



Plasma in the Suburban, take 1


Mike

[gmeast]

geet

Hi all,

I've started building a small semi-GEET reactor for the Bug. It will be much along the test unit Luc began except I will have makeup air both from the crankcase into the top of the reactor as well as from ambient because I'm not closing the loop. An exhaust feed from the intake manifold preheat has proven to be a very convenient source for the hot bubbler supply.

News at eleven. Peace,

Greg

[gotoluc]

Way to go Luc!!!

I thought of this for sometime now, unfortunately one thing bugs me, I don't imagine myself building the whole spark plug. Maybe it is easier than I think but I don't know how.

Maybe if one makes a design and ask a manufacturer to build it according to our specs, they might accept but there will be a minimum order quantity.

Maybe by punching a hole trough the center electrode with a laser beam... brainstorming.


Now the question is: How do we sustain plasma long enough without consuming a whole bunch of amps.
Powerful oscillator? Back EMF feedback? Multi-capacitor bank?...

I love this place.


Gibs

Hi Gibs,

I think it would not be all that difficult to make our own plugs. We can start by breaking a plug just to use the thread body. Since we are going to have water in the center of the plug it should stay much cooler than standard so maybe we can use high temperature Epoxy as filler between the tubes? we only want proof of concept to start so it maybe good enough. I'm sure if it works we would have a mass interest and could get it manufactured then.

For a longer duration plasma event at low energy input (if needed) I think it could be done with resonance. I have been playing around with resonance for the past 3 weeks and think it could be used to make the circuit very energy efficient and maybe make the plasma event last as long as we want. I'm no expert at this stuff but it looks interesting. When I have a better understanding of the effect I will share a video on what I have found and we can see if it can be adapted to what we have.

Luc

[gmeast]

electro hydraulic forming

Interesting vid.

YouTube - water test

Hi,

What's shown in the video has its basis in a principle used in manufacturing called 'electro hydraulic forming' - EHF It was developed in the 1950's for aerospace. It is one of many processes that falls into the category of high energy forming.

Electro hydraulic forming usually confines a mold cavity, and a metallic piece of material to be formed, in either a water or oil fluid containment. When an arc is discharged in the fluid the resulting shock wave pushes the metal into the mold, forming the part.

But ... it uses far less energy to form the same part in a press using a matched die, but EHF requires only the 'cavity' part of the die and simpler, less expensive tooling overall.

You can Wiki the topic for more details.

Peace,

Greg

[jstadwater]

Hey Greg,

When you have time, could you shoot me back a PM on the one I sent you with the transformer part # question and about which 2N3055 had the right specs? I,m holding the boss's credit card and am anxious to order the components you are using to continue testing. The fact that you got the watts usage down that low is definitely great news. Can't wait to install a pair of them on this V-8 here. Thanks again, later..............................Mike

[carbideTip]

Interesting vid.

YouTube - water test

[gmeast]

thanks

Hi Turbotrana,

Greg is right in regards to my having issues with cross talk after duration testing. I attribute the problem to my trying to save space. I diverted from Bill's circuit slightly by not utilizing the 60 diode bank and just increased the the cross talk bank. I am not sure is this contributed to the issue or not but I don't think is does. As you have see, Greg's circuit performs flawlessly with just a 15kv HV diode on each plug. I believe my issue derived from trying to skimp and save money by using a 15 diode string on each cylinder. I tried to save space by zig-zagging the diodes back and forth to make a small package. The problem is that you need to insulate the heck out of them or they will take a short cut and bypass a bunch of the diodes. A straight line is the best if you have the space. I also believe that my routing of wires was an issue. I am in the process changing out my stock plug wires with some custom wires I made using HV neon tubing wire (GTO) it has a very low resistance an will allow me to tie into the wires at the distributor rather than at the plug. The only problem is that I still have not received my HV diodes that I ordered last Saturday. USPS miss-routed the package, so I am still waiting. Once I have received them I can complete my alterations and go back to testing. I have not been able to use an entire tank of fuel to do MPG comparisons, only 100 to 150 miles per pop.

Although I can say the only issue I have had with the inverter was the need for an isolation transformer. The inverter that I use does not completely isolate the secondary voltage from the primary, so an iso tranny was required. I believe that Bill's inverter is a higher end inverter and is completely isolated internally. If you are going to replicate his circuit, then I would highly recommend that you check your inverter first and also make sure that it is isolated from any vehicle ground i.e. vehicle chassis. But other than that, the inverter has run without any issues. It draws roughly 4 amps at idle and 7 at higher RPM's. I also ordered a clamp on DC amp meter, so I will be able to provide more accurate info on that.

Hope this helps,



LapperL

Hi lapperl,

Thanks for jumping in and helping with the Q?.

Greg

[lapperl]

I have just read the Panceauniversity.org document on the water sparkplug to get more of an understanding of this circuit..

From your last post Gregory (Gmeast) you indicated that the frying of the inverter is the major issue that is trying to be overcome with the newer circuits being created.

I understand that Bill Cozzolino's Nexus circuit was test driven with a few thousand miles with no inverter failure.

My questions are
- is "frying inverters" still an issue with Bills Cozzolino's circuit.
- what improvements are the newer circuit trying to make over Bills circuit.

From my perspective Bills circuit has adequate plasma for my testing (thinking that that there is a point of diminishing returns with plasma spark on an ICE) and Bills circuit is a good starting point for my fuel economy testing with lean burn.

But just concerned as to the Bills circuits reliabiliy. Any comments.

Hi Turbotrana,

Greg is right in regards to my having issues with cross talk after duration testing. I attribute the problem to my trying to save space. I diverted from Bill's circuit slightly by not utilizing the 60 diode bank and just increased the the cross talk bank. I am not sure is this contributed to the issue or not but I don't think is does. As you have see, Greg's circuit performs flawlessly with just a 15kv HV diode on each plug. I believe my issue derived from trying to skimp and save money by using a 15 diode string on each cylinder. I tried to save space by zig-zagging the diodes back and forth to make a small package. The problem is that you need to insulate the heck out of them or they will take a short cut and bypass a bunch of the diodes. A straight line is the best if you have the space. I also believe that my routing of wires was an issue. I am in the process changing out my stock plug wires with some custom wires I made using HV neon tubing wire (GTO) it has a very low resistance an will allow me to tie into the wires at the distributor rather than at the plug. The only problem is that I still have not received my HV diodes that I ordered last Saturday. USPS miss-routed the package, so I am still waiting. Once I have received them I can complete my alterations and go back to testing. I have not been able to use an entire tank of fuel to do MPG comparisons, only 100 to 150 miles per pop.

Although I can say the only issue I have had with the inverter was the need for an isolation transformer. The inverter that I use does not completely isolate the secondary voltage from the primary, so an iso tranny was required. I believe that Bill's inverter is a higher end inverter and is completely isolated internally. If you are going to replicate his circuit, then I would highly recommend that you check your inverter first and also make sure that it is isolated from any vehicle ground i.e. vehicle chassis. But other than that, the inverter has run without any issues. It draws roughly 4 amps at idle and 7 at higher RPM's. I also ordered a clamp on DC amp meter, so I will be able to provide more accurate info on that.

Hope this helps,



LapperL

[gmeast]

circuit

I have just read the Panceauniversity.org document on the water sparkplug to get more of an understanding of this circuit..

From your last post Gregory (Gmeast) you indicated that the frying of the inverter is the major issue that is trying to be overcome with the newer circuits being created.

I understand that Bill Cozzolino's Nexus circuit was test driven with a few thousand miles with no inverter failure.

My questions are
- is "frying inverters" still an issue with Bills Cozzolino's circuit.
- what improvements are the newer circuit trying to make over Bills circuit.

From my perspective Bills circuit has adequate plasma for my testing (thinking that that there is a point of diminishing returns with plasma spark on an ICE) and Bills circuit is a good starting point for my fuel economy testing with lean burn.

But just concerned as to the Bills circuits reliabiliy. Any comments.

Hi turbotrana,

I'm not familiar with Bill's circuit. The VexUs circuit (the one I'm developing) seems to be the one plagued with the inverter issue and no one knows why. I fixed it by getting rid of the inverter in mine.

The last word I heard about the Nexus circuit from lapperLL in overunity.com (and here) was that there developed a cross-talk and misfire problems with the diode strings in the long term testing.

What's been noticed is that inverters carry a whole lot of overhead with them and are not at all efficient for the amount of power being diverted to the plasma spark. It is in the hundreds of Watts. I'm presently using only 65 - 85 Watts with my VexUs circuit. If you saw my last pressure test video, there's plenty of plasma clout at only 0.080 Joules of energy per pulse.

If you can find current info' about the Nexus circuit would you please share it back here?

Thanks,

Greg

[turbotrana]

I have just read the Panceauniversity.org document on the water sparkplug to get more of an understanding of this circuit..

From your last post Gregory (Gmeast) you indicated that the frying of the inverter is the major issue that is trying to be overcome with the newer circuits being created.

I understand that Bill Cozzolino's Nexus circuit was test driven with a few thousand miles with no inverter failure.

My questions are
- is "frying inverters" still an issue with Bills Cozzolino's circuit.
- what improvements are the newer circuit trying to make over Bills circuit.

From my perspective Bills circuit has adequate plasma for my testing (thinking that that there is a point of diminishing returns with plasma spark on an ICE) and Bills circuit is a good starting point for my fuel economy testing with lean burn.

But just concerned as to the Bills circuits reliabiliy. Any comments.