Water Sparkplug

[gmeast]

center tap

Hi Top,

Well thanks but Jet has done more variations and iterations of the water spark plug than I can count and same on many other forums and topics and Aaron too, (^2), well this whole forum is his gig anyway (hi Aaron). If you look at the PDF I uploaded you see that this transformer can be configured many ways. One way is as a center tapped, step up transformer. I've seen posts in other forums (like Gotoluc's equiv. forum on the topic at 'overunity.com' & maybe here too) where two step down/step up transformers have been hooked in series to make a CT config. It will probably get you going but I don't think it's the same "inductively" but maybe close.

On the MPG thingy: I had to sell my Bug for $$ ... the economy and all, so I've been out of that part of the loop for about 9 months + now.

Good luck,

Greg

Hi. Gmeast. You are the most experience in this. No doubt about it. Is center tap transformer is a must in this oscillator circuit? What mpg u get now?

[topangler81]

Did you experience any spark plug wear in your test? Is it true the engines runs cooler .

[gmeast]

cooler

Hi top,

I did experience wear with the standard electrode configuration and at higher capacitor values above 5uF. I didn't get any with the marine plugs ever but they never delivered a high volume spark. Once I started using the 'better oscillator' I began using a smaller Cap ... no greater than 4uF. I never really saw any wear on any of the firestorm replicas. Remember though, I didn't have hundreds of hours on these things either.

I began using water vapor created from exhaust heat and in pretty good amounts. I always got >100F drop in exhaust gas temp with the TC right at the port on one of the cylinders.

It would have been interesting to try this new-fangled Nascent plug ... still not quite sure exactly what that is yet ... maybe should've tried the Nexus circuit.

I've asked this before ... what ever happened to Bill Cozzolino (Nexus guy, skyhero ...)?

Good luck,

Greg

Did you experience any spark plug wear in your test? Is it true the engines runs cooler .

[topangler81]

Hi top,

I did experience wear with the standard electrode configuration and at higher capacitor values above 5uF. I didn't get any with the marine plugs ever but they never delivered a high volume spark. Once I started using the 'better oscillator' I began using a smaller Cap ... no greater than 4uF. I never really saw any wear on any of the firestorm replicas. Remember though, I didn't have hundreds of hours on these things either.

I began using water vapor created from exhaust heat and in pretty good amounts. I always got >100F drop in exhaust gas temp with the TC right at the port on one of the cylinders.

It would have been interesting to try this new-fangled Nascent plug ... still not quite sure exactly what that is yet ... maybe should've tried the Nexus circuit.

I've asked this before ... what ever happened to Bill Cozzolino (Nexus guy, skyhero ...)?

Good luck,

Greg

my circuit is now almost complete. im using 20x1N5408 diodes since i couldn't get expensive NTE's diode. i connected all diodes in series and soldered at PCB. i get an old center tap transformer but rated only 1.2amps. is it enough? or i must have larger transformer? how many amps this circuit consume at max load?. in your video, i can see that u using some thing as current limiter. why u shuld have a current limiter

[gmeast]

rating

Hi Top,

Well, the transformer I used was rated at 24VA like in the PDF. Assuming your transformer is 120VAC to 12VAC (most common) that would be 12VAC x 1.2A = 14.4VA and there are some correction factors but all this means is you can't use too big a cap. If you start with 2uF and go from there & just keep track of the heat. The NPN's will get warm (even hot) too but 3055's (in the can) are good for almost 200C which surprised the heck out of me. The PNP's (my MJ2955's) just drive the NPN bases and never even get warm.

All that will happen is the transformer will get hot and you'll have to cool it. It's best if you have a scope so you can see if your oscillator is actually swinging full rail. It should be a recognizable square wave. I'd send you a picture but I forgot how to PM people in this group ... help!

Greg

my circuit is now almost complete. im using 20x1N5408 diodes since i couldn't get expensive NTE's diode. i connected all diodes in series and soldered at PCB. i get an old center tap transformer but rated only 1.2amps. is it enough? or i must have larger transformer? how many amps this circuit consume at max load?. in your video, i can see that u using some thing as current limiter. why u shuld have a current limiter

[topangler81]

hi. today i finished completing my circuit, but it didn't work well. something wrong with my circuit maybe bad soldering. when i switch on the power, my transformer making shorting sound. i used a step down transformer backward so i can get a step up transformer. my voltmeter only registering 10v only at the output. ill try to fix it tomorrow. try to email me or just attach the picture...

[gmeast]

caps and resistors

Hi Top,

You will not be able to use the same combination of capacitors and resistors as I did in my circuit or as Jet did in his because our transformers are different than yours. Someone else might chime in here on this too. In my version of the same circuit I use 50ohm current limiters on the NPN bases. But I think the most important components are the 12K resistors and the 1uF caps as shown in the schematic better3.jpg. You will have to experiment to find the right combination. This oscillator will work over a wide range and it gets critical ONLY if you are trying for a specific frequency and power ... but you want efficiency. There are two possibilities 1) your inverter is either going way too fast and is just in a high frequency 'float' or 2) just 'stuck' on one of the rails and not oscillating at all.

It's possible to mathematically characterize the circuit, transformer and transistors and then arrive at the perfect selection and combination of capacitors and resistors but where's the fun in that?

You might try to change the cap to 2uF or more. Do you have a bridge rectifier (or equiv) on the oscillator's output because it does need to be turned into DC. Was your meter on AC or DC. If the meter was on DC you would get a meaningless reading even if the oscillator was working right. If it was on AC you would most likely get a bad reading too unless it was oscillating at 50Hz or 60Hz.

If you could see the oscillator's scope trace you would know immediately.

Does anything get warm? Can you feel or hear it 'buzzing'? And could you further elaborate on what you mean by "shorting sound"?

Hope it helps,

Greg

hi. today i finished completing my circuit, but it didn't work well. something wrong with my circuit maybe bad soldering. when i switch on the power, my transformer making shorting sound. i used a step down transformer backward so i can get a step up transformer. my voltmeter only registering 10v only at the output. ill try to fix it tomorrow. try to email me or just attach the picture...

[topangler81]

hi Greg. thanks. my circuit still not working. i changed the 50 0hm 5 watt resistor to 6.8k ohm 10 watt ad i'm using 0.47uF cap. and i change it to 1uF cap and still not get result i wanted. i don't have any scope . today is quite busy day changing all parts and i do not have parts i needed. yes i also think that the output frequencies is too high. my 2n3055 gets warm when i switch on and transformer also making very little buzzing sound. i did attach the output to bridge rectifier, and i'm using DC voltmeter. i also switching to AC and still not get any result. but i did notice when i switch off the circuit the voltmeter will show 24+ volt for a second and then go back to 0v. . i will tries using bigger cap but still need to buy it because i dont have any with me.
hope it will works....

[gmeast]

other resistor

Hi Top,

I would leave the 50 Ohm resistors alone and work with the 12 K-ohm resistors/caps combination. It is possible now that you many not have enough current on the 3055s' bases. And check to make sure you have the transistors hooked correctly.

Greg

hi Greg. thanks. my circuit still not working. i changed the 50 0hm 5 watt resistor to 6.8k ohm 10 watt ad i'm using 0.47uF cap. and i change it to 1uF cap and still not get result i wanted. i don't have any scope . today is quite busy day changing all parts and i do not have parts i needed. yes i also think that the output frequencies is too high. my 2n3055 gets warm when i switch on and transformer also making very little buzzing sound. i did attach the output to bridge rectifier, and i'm using DC voltmeter. i also switching to AC and still not get any result. but i did notice when i switch off the circuit the voltmeter will show 24+ volt for a second and then go back to 0v. . i will tries using bigger cap but still need to buy it because i dont have any with me.
hope it will works....

[Aaron]

Smokey's Hot Engines

Check this out: Smokey's Hot Engines

Read the Plasma related stuff in that article. He had the
"plasma jet ignition" system back then, which is exactly
what this plasma concept is with the 2 sources of power
mixing.

Look at that, 30 amps at 2500 volts.

Anyway, just for historical note and makes me wonder
what ignition system Krupa really tested with the firestorms.
Was it just some Crane system or was it this exact plasma
ignition concept.

[gmeast]

Smokey

Check this out: Smokey's Hot Engines

Read the Plasma related stuff in that article. He had the
"plasma jet ignition" system back then, which is exactly
what this plasma concept is with the 2 sources of power
mixing.

Look at that, 30 amps at 2500 volts.

Anyway, just for historical note and makes me wonder
what ignition system Krupa really tested with the firestorms.
Was it just some Crane system or was it this exact plasma
ignition concept.

Hi Aaron,

Boy do I remember that! There were often articles about 'Smokey' in P.S. as I recall and I also remember reading that very article. This article struck a chord because at that time I was working in the research department of a gas turbine manufacturing firm. One research project I was working on involved silicon nitride and silicon carbide materials as applied to an adiabatic turbine engine ... very challenging. We also messed with these materials re: an adiabatic diesel.

On Krupa ... I personally don't recall any mention of a 'special' ignition system in the resources. As you recall, near the end I had done some tests with the firestorms and they fired very luminously (white-blue) both on and off of a plasma circuit, but only when under the pressure of compression.

The mechanism of Smokey's plasma as well as that of the Nexus/Vexus/Aquapulsar/etc. seems to be the same: ie. A high voltage potential creates an ionization path for a high current to travel on. The high current is ever-present.

Greg

[topangler81]

Hi all. My oscillator circuit still not working. Make me wondering why this simple circuit become so hard for me. Not lucky i guess.

[gmeast]

not working???

Hi all. My oscillator circuit still not working. Make me wondering why this simple circuit become so hard for me. Not lucky i guess.

Hi Top,

It is a simple circuit. There are a couple of possibilities. One possibility is you have one (some) bad transistors. What PNP's are you using?

I will stress how much easier it is if you have a scope (infinitely easier).

Are you sure you are using the right transistors in the right place?

Again, are you sure you have the transistors hooked up correctly?

Can you take a good picture(s) and post them?

Greg

[Aaron]

Popular Science and Smokey Yunick

Hi Greg,

I looked at other Popular Science issues online during that time and it seems
that Smokey had a regular column where people can write in with questions
and he answered it. Like a Dear Abby for car topics.

This method of the "water sparkplug ignition" has an official name in the
industry and it is Plasma Jet Ignition or PJI. And their modified plugs for
using this ignition are simply Plasma Igniters.

I found a lot of different ignition system patents with this concept, but
if you search for PJI or Plasma Jet Ignition, you will find even MORE!

One of their primary purposes was to burn lean mixtures and according to
the SAE abstracts and other resources, it worked better than any other
ignition. Better than CDI, better than peaking caps, etc...

[gmeast]

lean burn

Hi Greg,

I looked at other Popular Science issues online during that time and it seems
that Smokey had a regular column where people can write in with questions
and he answered it. Like a Dear Abby for car topics.----------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of their primary purposes was to burn lean mixtures and according to
the SAE abstracts and other resources, it worked better than any other
ignition. Better than CDI, better than peaking caps, etc...

Hi Aaron,

It sure Worked. When I used the next-to-the-smallest fuel jet for my carb./engine combination in the Bug, it would hardly run without my Vexus circuit, and as expected, I did get a rise in temperature (even in that cold-blooded beast) hence my use of lots of steam vapor toward the end. One thing allot of people can't detect is the smell of super-clean combustion (if there's such a thing)... if you've ever been around high performance race cars or aircraft you will know the smell I'm talking about. That's what the Bug's exhaust smelled like ... clean and efficient.

Greg