Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[minoly]

coil shorting

we first saw it a couple of years ago here:
YouTube - Flyback From Generator Coil
just pick up a reed and use the magnets you already have on the rotor to short it.
we did it recently here:
YouTube - reed window motor generator
and over a year ago here:
YouTube - 3 Pole Monopole Back-popping
someone posted a "magneto generator" from 1875 that was suppose to be used "for nervous diseases" they purchased at a flea market.
YouTube - Magneto Electric Machine. W T. Bolton 1875 (former owner?) For nervous diseases
it uses the coil shorting technique.
if you have access to monopople 2 group:

http://tinyurl.com/6879kmg

I knew I should have ordered more MJL's when I first asked the question. will have to wait to do the paralleled MJL's experiment until my order arrives...
Thanks John B. :-)

P'n'S

[John_Bedini]

Bedini 16 GT-3

Hi Gyula,
Thanks for indicating that, but I will stick with the Bi-polar switching as the circuit I'm using completely isolates from the power supply lines.
I suggest that everybody takes that into account with this Motor, Lenz's law has not ever been a problem here with this machine as it does not generate. You must understand my thinking on this as I have encountered that problem before but not on this machine. As I said before you all have your own minds and you do what you think is best for this application.

I have said my piece on this. I will wait to see this working with whatever you all choose. But thanks Gyula for clearing that up as I could not see the devices used as my computer screen had this all fuzzy at work.
Gyula look at the capacitor in line. I can see this working but only to a point to where the coil will not return anything. This is going to work for the application they are using it for, but not me. Thanks

Scratchrobot, Ron's machine worked very well but now is not the time for this, and besides I do not know who i'm talking too here.


John B

[scratchrobot]

I also want to point out that ,Shorting coils circuits was done back in 1984 by Ron Cole as I have one of the pro-types setting right here on my shelf so it is not new.
But I would still like to have The Fets if you could get them for this size machine.
John B

Have you seen Ismael Aviso's video's ? What do you think ?
If it is real then he has taken the coil shorten circuit to a new level.
I supose the pro-types of Ron Cole were no succes because we are 2011 now.

Regards,

[gyula]

no need for P channel FET

Hi John,

Sorry for chiming in but in these schematics no P-channel MOSFETs are needed, both FETs can be N-channel. Their sources are tied together and so are the gates, the drains are open like a normally open switch and when the control voltage appears between the common gate and source points there will be an almost short circuit between the drains: the switch gets closed and will be able to conduct current in both directions. (the body diodes are shorted by the 'on' channel resistances). This is the link I mean, first Figure:

https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/shorting-coils-circuits

IRF640 types are shown but any type with high current and 200-300V breakdown voltage data works. Both the breakdown voltages and the ON-channel resistances add up, input gate-source capacitances are paralleled.

Here is a better type I suggested to Doug Konzen on his EVGRAY forum:

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfs4229pbf.pdf

It is a 250V, 45A device, its ON resistance is .042 Ohm @ 10V
gate-source voltage, PD 330W.

Another type is:

http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/DatasheetsB/FUJI_SEMICONDUCTOR/925-0001.PDF

It is available here Fuji Semiconductor - 2SK3554-01 - Discrete MOSFETs - Semiconductors - Allied Electronics

Could you share that when we short a coil with a switch like this (or any other switch suitable for the task) how much the shorting effect reflects back to the energy source that caused the induction in the coil? I have not yet tried coil shorting in practice (I want to do it) but would like to understand why there is no or only a very little input power increase when doing the coil shorting. Doug Konzen shows the scope shot on his shorting the coil at the peaks of the induced voltage in his above site.

Thanks, Gyula

Penno64,
I have seen this before. This would be the way to go but get the high voltage Fet's in matched pairs is a problem. it would be nice if you could get the P device to match the IRF 260 and I would want it matching. I did find some T0 3's for audio but it's the cost and a minimum order, not for me at this time as I'm still recovering from the cost of the big machine.
John B

[John_Bedini]

edini GT 16-3

Vissie,
I did that to increase current and I think when I measured it, it was more then your calculating for the devices.

I also want to point out that ,Shorting coils circuits was done back in 1984 by Ron Cole as I have one of the pro-types setting right here on my shelf so it is not new.
But I would still like to have The Fets if you could get them for this size machine.
John B

[scratchrobot]

Penno64,
I have seen this before. This would be the way to go but get the high voltage Fet's in matched pairs is a problem. it would be nice if you could get the P device to match the IRF 260 and I would want it matching. I did find some T0 3's for audio but it's the cost and a minimum order, not for me at this time as I'm still recovering from the cost of the big machine.
John B

If this is the way to go then we should go this way
@Penno thanks for the link, I was thinking about adding a second coil?

[nvisser]

John K,
Some tips.....
Think I might say again the big coils are far different in what they can do as far as recovery energy output to the batteries. The bigger the coils the more you will collect. I'm hoping Brent gets his machine running. I might point out that the Bedini Cole switch was changed by me for that machine. This is not the same machine everybody is use to. You all have the basics to get this device working and working good. If you do a simple experiment with a coil that large you will discover the energy returned is something to be dealt with.

The reason I used a capacitor that big (16.000 uf 75 v) is because it is a constant device that really does not change impedance, in other words it stays the same as it charges up so the circuit could be adjusted for the best charge, and it had to do with the timing. I walked away from that machine many times before I got it right.

"Everybody is searching for my impedance of my coils Brent has the correct impedance".
Tip #2

Make the bipolar switch single transistors use a 2 amp light in place of the coils ( use 12 volts to do this) Then start to add parallel transistors until it is as bright as you can get it, just like in the window motor vid, you can see in the box. Heat sink them down. it takes about 4 of each device to do this. Then hook to the coil without running the machine and switch it on by hand watch the capacitor on the output, you will see it when you get it just right.

I know you all have your own opinion that's fine but change it after it is working.

John K Hope you can come to the next one if the world does not blow up.
John, Thanks for fixing CH , analog is the answer John the new one is a killer ask Rick I'm not kidding either.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT16-3

Penno64,
I have seen this before. This would be the way to go but get the high voltage Fet's in matched pairs is a problem. it would be nice if you could get the P device to match the IRF 260 and I would want it matching. I did find some T0 3's for audio but it's the cost and a minimum order, not for me at this time as I'm still recovering from the cost of the big machine.
John B

[penno64]

Hi All,

You guys should seriously have a look at this -

https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/shorting-coils-circuits

Harti posted at OU -

FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR


Regards, Penno

[John_K]

Hi John B,

Thanks for the tips, mucho appreciato!

I think I know what you're getting at with the big coils vs. the small ones. 4 ohms on a big coil with thick wire is going to behave very differently to 4 ohms on a small coil with thinner wire.

Dan has shipped my order of wire, halls, SCRs and transistors so it should be here any day now. I couldn't help trying a solid state digital version because I had an itch I had to scratch while I'm waiting for the parts. I wanted to see the waveform I was looking for and I got what I wanted out of it. I will do the 2A lamp experiment with the parallel transistors, I think I know what you want us to learn from that but will wait until I've done it before "spilling the beans".

I see what you mean about the size of the cap also, the impedance in the cap will change once you get past 67% of the rated voltage which is why you see the amps decrease on one of the first videos I did. You did mention that in a post.

I'll be at the next one so long as the world doesn't blow up. No probs about fixing CH, it's a great one! Rick and the other person tells me the new one is like "WOW!" I've done some testing with what I think is similar - battery cold boils in minutes and I had to tame it down because I was using digital switching. Pegged out the meter and scared the pants off me! I agree, analog is the way to go here - much easier way to switch, set it right and walk away.

See ya in July!


John K.

John K,
Some tips.....
Think I might say again the big coils are far different in what they can do as far as recovery energy output to the batteries. The bigger the coils the more you will collect. I'm hoping Brent gets his machine running. I might point out that the Bedini Cole switch was changed by me for that machine. This is not the same machine everybody is use to. You all have the basics to get this device working and working good. If you do a simple experiment with a coil that large you will discover the energy returned is something to be dealt with.

The reason I used a capacitor that big (16.000 uf 75 v) is because it is a constant device that really does not change impedance, in other words it stays the same as it charges up so the circuit could be adjusted for the best charge, and it had to do with the timing. I walked away from that machine many times before I got it right.

"Everybody is searching for my impedance of my coils Brent has the correct impedance".
Tip #2

Make the bipolar switch single transistors use a 2 amp light in place of the coils ( use 12 volts to do this) Then start to add parallel transistors until it is as bright as you can get it, just like in the window motor vid, you can see in the box. Heat sink them down. it takes about 4 of each device to do this. Then hook to the coil without running the machine and switch it on by hand watch the capacitor on the output, you will see it when you get it just right.

I know you all have your own opinion that's fine but change it after it is working.

John K Hope you can come to the next one if the world does not blow up.
John, Thanks for fixing CH , analog is the answer John the new one is a killer ask Rick I'm not kidding either.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Tips

John K,
Some tips.....
Think I might say again the big coils are far different in what they can do as far as recovery energy output to the batteries. The bigger the coils the more you will collect. I'm hoping Brent gets his machine running. I might point out that the Bedini Cole switch was changed by me for that machine. This is not the same machine everybody is use to. You all have the basics to get this device working and working good. If you do a simple experiment with a coil that large you will discover the energy returned is something to be dealt with.

The reason I used a capacitor that big (16.000 uf 75 v) is because it is a constant device that really does not change impedance, in other words it stays the same as it charges up so the circuit could be adjusted for the best charge, and it had to do with the timing. I walked away from that machine many times before I got it right.

"Everybody is searching for my impedance of my coils Brent has the correct impedance".
Tip #2

Make the bipolar switch single transistors use a 2 amp light in place of the coils ( use 12 volts to do this) Then start to add parallel transistors until it is as bright as you can get it, just like in the window motor vid, you can see in the box. Heat sink them down. it takes about 4 of each device to do this. Then hook to the coil without running the machine and switch it on by hand watch the capacitor on the output, you will see it when you get it just right.

I know you all have your own opinion that's fine but change it after it is working.

John K Hope you can come to the next one if the world does not blow up.
John, Thanks for fixing CH , analog is the answer John the new one is a killer ask Rick I'm not kidding either.
John B

[iankoglin]

Kogs S1GT update

G'Day John K
I am going to have to get more wire to continue with my build I still do not know what size wire I need to make the coils for the size machine I have made it is 1/9 the size of JB's machine. and I am sure I do not need to make the coils strands each 445 odd feet long, the 4 strands on his big coil measured in parallel 4.2 ohms.

So now are you ""suggesting ""that I make 1 coil of 4 strands 1200? feet all strands paralled to give me 1.9 ohms?


Why did you say JB's ballpark 1.9 ohms Did I miss something when I was reading the posts?

I will see what I can work out. Thanks again.

Kindest regards Kogs

[david.brown]

[minoly]

although I'm batting zero today with some of my thoughts:

Can't all that still happen with each coil still having it's own ckt?

they became live/parallel when active just like the multi-filer multi-coil SG - that is: when the hall switches them on, they each become in parallel for the time they are being switched, right?

would this negate the ability for the Magamp to have any effect? we think it would actually amplify the effect much like the magneto switches toward the end of the magnet pass to amplify the spike in a magneto type generator.
P'n'S

[wrench76]

Hello everyone, I just thought I would share a few thoughts since I cant build this machine at the moment. I believe John B. chose these two sizes of wire (18ga &15ga) because ones resistance is half that of the other. 18ga wire has a resistance of about 6.386 ohms per 1000ft, 15ga wire has about 3.181 ohms per 1000ft. So on the main coil, if you had 4 wires (two 18ga & two 15ga)each 4000ft long,you would get two 18ga wires at 25.544ohms each and two 15ga wires at 12.724ohms each. Now if you look at just the 18ga wires, when they are connected in parallel the resistance is divided in half (12.772ohms) The slave coils have half the length of wire used in the main coil (2000ft)so their resistance is 12.772ohms each, the same as the two 18ga wires in Parrnell on the main coil. I believe it is this relationship that causes the magamp affect on the two 15ga wires when they are all hooked together in parallel. Johns' wheel is setup so the magnets pass over each slave coil just before the center magnet passes over the main coil. If you have the slave coils positioned right they would be pumping "or ringing" twice before the main coil was triggered.This is the timing that I believe is critical. Slave coil positions, hall position and dwell. I did not look at my notes before I posted this, so Im not 100% sure about the wire lengths so this is just an example. Well I hope that at least stirs up some ideas for you guys building. Great build BTW @iankoglin


Brian