Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[iankoglin]

Wire Insulation For 3Gt Coils

G'Day Mr John Bedini
I am intending to purchase the Magnet wire to match your specs for my S1GT including the wire for the side coils.
I have inquired here in Aus for this wire but they do not have the exact AWG guages required to match the specs and also they only want to sell it to me in 25kg spools I do not have the facilities to measure the distance or weight to match these coils so I have inquired Overseas.

To day I received an email from The Director of Marketing for WSWire .com regarding the quotation I was seeking for this magnet wire He asked me

"please identify the build and insulation type of these various size
wires and we will attempt to quote them for you."

I read through all the information on thier web site regarding this subject and I replied to him.

"The insulation I require is for a generator coils so I imagine to use Formvar (RD) with a single build"

I really want this machine to be built correctly so it does not fail in this regard and as I really do not know whether a single build would be OK or should I request a heavy build?

Mr John Bedini could you please tell me if the single build is OK for this Bedini 3GT I am attempting to replicate?

Kindest regards Kogs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[iankoglin]

Update after repaired circuit on Kogs S1GT

Hi Kog's,

It sounds like your SCR was not triggering properly before your BBQ made sure it was dead.

You might also want to get one (get a few) of those super bright LEDs to put in series with the zener on the SCR. That way you can see that the cap bank is charging and discharging.

I hope this helps...


John K.

G'Day John
Everything is the same as before including 24volt batteries except

I disconnected one of the caps then I replaced the SCR with a TYN825 as that is the only one I have, also I put an LED in series with the Zener on the SCR, and I put an LED in series with the output of the Hall,
NOW I connected the Coil and the Hall then when I connected the Charging battery the LED in series with the SCR immediatly lit up and the caps were loading. I had not as yet connected the Primary battery.
Here is the updated circuit
REpairedCircuit.jpg picture by Kogs1 - Photobucket

Here is the circuit before I repaired it
SCRBlewitsTop.jpg picture by Kogs1 - Photobucket
I think I followed your circuit pretty close could you please scrutinise it for me I would appreciate it.


Regards Kogs

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT16-3

Brent,
Make a jig to hold the rods they must be glued in I just used super glue like I always have done.Make a block to set the coil on with the extending rods so they can be glued make them tight as you can.
I used the thin build- it from tower hobbies.
John

[iankoglin]

G'day Kogs - watts-up,
that is one cool looking SCR

I like the clean layout of your ckt. I can see exactly how you have everything connected.

I think the shorting of the cap sent a huge transient directly through your scr. there is one way to find out - I'd love to see a youtube of that in slow motion. I might have to try that one out myself.

P'n'S

G'Day Patrick n Bolt
When I shorted the cap I not only saw the awsomepark but heard something flew past my head and hit the roof and settled down near me I could not find what it was that went flying itwasnt until I had a closer inspection of my circuit that I noticed it was the SCR. I havn't been able to figure what it was that caused it perhaps I will just replace it and try again.

Regards Kogs

[genessc]

I c. I use a scope as well to determine my on/off time. I note that when it turns off, the stepped sawtooth starts its chunky run up to a peak volts in the cap. When it turns on its got the sharp straight line to Zero on the scope and the line stays flat while the transistor is conducting, then when it turns off the stepped sawtooth starts its charging run.

Gotcha on the spec sheet, but sorta doubt that has to do with whats going on in the circuit. Sounds like the spec sheet is just saying to use it from peak volts to zero... which in a sine is 1/4 of the period.

The waveform on the scope is just the volts... Presumably there is a current waveform that starts also at that peak and is lagging somewhat behind or jumping ahead of the discharge of the voltage. Usually from a cap the current leads the volts. While from an inductor the volts leads the current.

I can completely control the On to Off time on my discharge controller, so I know what the signal is thats filling it or discharging it. I suppose this is whats nice about using an SCR tho... since it will shutoff once the CURRENT stops flowing and has reached a balance. In the BJT the removal of the signal can cutoff the discharge at any point in the discharge pulse. The SCR keeps it flowing once triggered till the discharge cap is level with the battery, then it locks off and the charge cycle starts again.

What was the instant current noted on the ammeter per pulse? does it register?

Good stuff... thanks for the reply.
Gene

I am not sure. It is not easy to determine on a scope @ 2Hz.
The specsheet says 1/4 duty cycle
Pulse rate 2.4Hz

http://www.mantech.co.za/Datasheets/Products/BB-BD1171-C.pdf

Looking at the flashing it could just as well be 50% duty cycle.
Anyway the cap discharge very fast into a good low impedance battery. I measured before on the scope what looked like about 75msec before the pulse started to taper out after the initial sharp discharge. I measured the current pulse over the ammeter that has a internal resistance of 0.001 Ohm I think. So you can see the curent pulse on a scope
Vissie

[nvisser]

Hi Vissie,

In the discharge pulse, is the duty 50% still? 50% on and 50% off ? Or are you asymetrical in the discharge ON time? having the ON be like 5% and the off be 95% of the period?

Regards,
Gene

I am not sure. It is not easy to determine on a scope @ 2Hz.
The specsheet says 1/4 duty cycle
Pulse rate 2.4Hz

http://www.mantech.co.za/Datasheets/Products/BB-BD1171-C.pdf

Looking at the flashing it could just as well be 50% duty cycle.
Anyway the cap discharge very fast into a good low impedance battery. I measured before on the scope what looked like about 75msec before the pulse started to taper out after the initial sharp discharge. I measured the current pulse over the ammeter that has a internal resistance of 0.001 Ohm I think. So you can see the curent pulse on a scope
Vissie

[minoly]

I am in the process of getting quotes on the wire for my coils, so while I am waiting I decided to put the circuit together still using the Coil mentioned above I am using 24v primary and charging batteries and after connecting the batteries it seemed to be working OK, after about 5 min I stopped it to connect a meter to the cap. I thought I should discharge the cap first so I put a screwdriver across the cap terminals and the SCR blew its top I have a shot of my circuit here
SCRBlewitsTop.jpg picture by Kogs1 - Photobucket
I do not know if it blew its top because I shorted it, or perhaps the caps were too large for the SCR.
The SCR was TYN840 and the zena fitted is 1n5363 30v, there are 3 caps 4700uf 63v in series.

Please if someone here might look at my circuit and see if perhaps I have something not connected right I appreciate any input.

Kindest regards Kogs

G'day Kogs - watts-up,
that is one cool looking SCR

I like the clean layout of your ckt. I can see exactly how you have everything connected.

I think the shorting of the cap sent a huge transient directly through your scr. there is one way to find out - I'd love to see a youtube of that in slow motion. I might have to try that one out myself.

P'n'S

[genessc]

Hi Vissie,

In the discharge pulse, is the duty 50% still? 50% on and 50% off ? Or are you asymetrical in the discharge ON time? having the ON be like 5% and the off be 95% of the period?

I'm going a slightly different route since I haven't the wheel. I've setup an SS SG that is controlled by a custom 556 controller that is made to flipflop, so one half drives the SS SG to charge up a cap, and the other half of it discharges that cap to another cap... this is currently running about 14hz... with the SS SG running ~1khz when its powered. Then I have another seperate (non-syncronous) 555 controller that discharges this second cap to the batteries at a rate of 1.4hz. The SS SG charges a 330uF collector cap to about 80v, then that is dumped to the discharger cap of 2400uF and that is what is fired into the battery after ~10 or so filling pulses from the 330uF cap. I tried a 14,000uF cap in the place of the 2400uF cap, and it worked but reached lower peak volts and didn't seem to make any real difference to the batteries being charged... Holding a neo to the line running to the charge battery lets me feel the discharge events and the noise within the discharge ON time.

Thinking it might be better to go to smaller capacities all the way thru... to get the frequency up... and have a higher peak voltage...

Anywho... sorry if thats offtopic, but figured I'd share as I'm looking at the pulse discharges from a cap to a charge battery that is just being filled via a different front end. Input to this is 24v at 1amp, max.

Anyways curious what the duty is for the discharge pulses from these large uF caps... Also given the spacing of the magnets on the rotor it seems like the space allows or rather makes sure that no other pulses are coming thru during the discharge pulse to the charge batteries... while on my little solid state setup this is not the case... the initial discharge pulse fires but then it passes thru the 6-8 pulses from the 556 controller during the 555's ON time... so its more like it gets a solid hit from the 2400uF cap then it passes thru 6-8 pulses directly from the 330uF cap... before shutting off.

Only way to get this up in freq is to take the cap down in uF or increase the input source power. (or make the discharger pulse asymetrical so that its ON time is less than a single half ON time of the 14hz controller.)

Regards,
Gene

Here is the diagram of a very simple fet cap pulsar that I have tested over the last few days.

I still need to work out a way to cut the input off with a fet while the cap discharge.
This could work well with a radiant input by adjusting the capacitance to reach double the battery voltage before the next pulse occurs.
Vissie

[BrentA929]

Caps

Hey Kogs,

Thanks for the link and it looks like your build is coming together nicely.

Not sure if that was a typo, but we mentioned a 17,000 uF (not a 1,700 uF) in a previous post to try and match more closely to what JB has with his 16,000 uF cap.

I guess you could parallel 10 together...that would be a bit costly!


Best Regards, Brent

G'Day Brent
I purchased 2 1700uf 75v caps here
New 1 Pcs. of 1700uF 75V Computer Grade Capacitors (eBay item 140472943302 end time 02-Mar-11 01:14:39 AEDST) : Business Industrial

I just received them today
Regards Kogs

[John_K]

Kog's

I am in the process of getting quotes on the wire for my coils, so while I am waiting I decided to put the circuit together still using the Coil mentioned above I am using 24v primary and charging batteries and after connecting the batteries it seemed to be working OK, after about 5 min I stopped it to connect a meter to the cap. I thought I should discharge the cap first so I put a screwdriver across the cap terminals and the SCR blew its top I have a shot of my circuit here
SCRBlewitsTop.jpg picture by Kogs1 - Photobucket
I do not know if it blew its top because I shorted it, or perhaps the caps were too large for the SCR.
The SCR was TYN840 and the zena fitted is 1n5363 30v, there are 3 caps 4700uf 63v in series.

Please if someone here might look at my circuit and see if perhaps I have something not connected right I appreciate any input.

Kindest regards Kogs

Hi Kog's,

It sounds like your SCR was not triggering properly before your BBQ made sure it was dead.

This could have been caused because the cap bank is too big. I would start off with just one of those 4700uF 63V caps and keep a meter (preferably analog) on the cap so you can monitor the voltage. I had some problems getting the SCR to trigger when running at 24V, I had to play around with it to get it to work reliably. Start at 12V until you get it switching, then you can up scale.

I would also replace the 30V zener on the gate with a 4.7V as this will not stress the SCR as much. The way you have it the SCR cannot trigger until the cap is around 55V. 4700uF x 3 is probably a bit too much to ask of the SCR. If you do manage to get it to switch, it would probably latch on anyway.

If the voltage over the cap gets too high, shut it off and discharge the cap either into a battery (for a light show) or a high resistance load (like a small 240V incandescent bulb), to bleed it off slower. Try not to short out the bank with a screwdriver - I'm guessing that there was a lot more energy in those caps than what the labels say they can take.

You might also want to get one (get a few) of those super bright LEDs to put in series with the zener on the SCR. That way you can see that the cap bank is charging and discharging.

I hope this helps...


John K.

[iankoglin]

John B,

Thanks for your help!

We have been to the local surplus house and have purchased a few different values. Can't remember which ones we got. Can we put them in parallel to get close or is it best to have only one capacitor?


Thanks, Brent

G'Day Brent
I purchased 2 1700uf 75v caps here
New 1 Pcs. of 1700uF 75V Computer Grade Capacitors (eBay item 140472943302 end time 02-Mar-11 01:14:39 AEDST) : Business Industrial

I just received them today
Regards Kogs

[iankoglin]

Update on Kogs S1GT

D'Day All

Here are the pics of my KogsS1GT
Pictures by Kogs1 - Photobucket

I now have received the electronic components for my BediniS1GT and now have assembled the circuit I tried it. The coil I built was all the wire I had left over from previous builds 600 feet of 5 x .8mm litz. ( I know we are told not to use twisted wire but this is all I had and I need to experiment first as I have still to decide what wire I need to purchase before I order any) The coil former is 135mm high 120mm diam with a core size of 55mm the core R60 rods protruding 50mm above the former and the Iron plate mounted at the bottom of the coil bent to form at 45deg on the 2 sides.

my coil is made of 2 strands 1200 feet long and 1 strand 600 feet long I left the 1 strand loose and connected the other 2 strands now 1200 feet each in parallel and connected them to the circuit.

Now I was able to adjust the coil and the hall so the 1 transistor did not get hot I ran it all day and it still did not get hot. The revs were constant at 5.6 The amps fluctuated from .02 to 0.8 The battery a 12 volt remained constant 12.42 for 6 hours then dropped to 12.39 after another 2 hours.
I measured 5 strands 600 feet 5 x .8mm litz parallel was 1.296 ohms
The 2 strands 1200 feet parallel was 3.8 ohms

The next thing I have to do is now build the charging circuit

I am in the process of getting quotes on the wire for my coils, so while I am waiting I decided to put the circuit together still using the Coil mentioned above I am using 24v primary and charging batteries and after connecting the batteries it seemed to be working OK, after about 5 min I stopped it to connect a meter to the cap. I thought I should discharge the cap first so I put a screwdriver across the cap terminals and the SCR blew its top I have a shot of my circuit here
SCRBlewitsTop.jpg picture by Kogs1 - Photobucket
I do not know if it blew its top because I shorted it, or perhaps the caps were too large for the SCR.
The SCR was TYN840 and the zena fitted is 1n5363 30v, there are 3 caps 4700uf 63v in series.

Please if someone here might look at my circuit and see if perhaps I have something not connected right I appreciate any input.

Kindest regards Kogs

[BrentA929]

Iron flaps

John B,

Not sure what to do...

If we bond the iron flap to the core of the center coil, do we just attach the JB weld to the surface of the rods on JUST the outer perimeter of the core to the iron? Not real sure how it would bond to all the rods if they are extended through the iron flap by 3".

Please advise!


Thanks, Brent

Brent,
The iron flap sits under the coil and is bent to meet the coil half way on both sides. Just like in the pictures in the beginning of the thread. You can bond it if you want using JB weld as it contains iron and is magnetic. I just used mid size car batteries.
John B

[RS_]

batterys

I just used mid size car batteries.
John B

Hi JB,

I see that you recommend, medium size car battery's....

I had wandered what size battery's this BFW will effectively charge. Car battery's are ok for testing things, but are about worthless for running a inverter with a useful load for very long. Like more than 1 100 watt light bulb, as an example........not that i would run 100W bulbs vs 5-6 CFL's or a bunch of LED's......

Golf Cart batterys 220Ah are the better choice for running larger practical loads, L16's 375Ah are the next size up Battery, and about the smallest they use for solar installations.

Shouldn't this size or bigger, be the size battery's that we want to charge, as anything less than this, is not practical for running a reasonable load off an inverter for very long.....?

RS

[nvisser]

Simle FET pulsar

Here is the diagram of a very simple fet cap pulsar that I have tested over the last few days.

I still need to work out a way to cut the input off with a fet while the cap discharge.
This could work well with a radiant input by adjusting the capacitance to reach double the battery voltage before the next pulse occurs.
Vissie