Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[david.brown]

Ed Leedskalnin Perpetual Motion Holder

Hi All,

YouTube - magnetic cancelling

[bill_timmerman]

Measuring current output with a shunt

It sounds like everyone is using an analog ammeter to measure a pulsing current. I don't see how this can give you an accurate reading. We use a calibrated current shunt connected between the output and the charging battery. Measured across the shunt; Ten mV=1 amp. We connect our scope probe across the shunt and you can see the current level each time it pulses. On the 10 coiler, we are currently getting 9 amp pulses with a 12v primary and 15 amp pulses with a 24 amp primary. This is with the coils connected directly to the battery under charge without any output switching. We're working on the output switching now.
This is a joint effort between TurboDan and me. He did a great job in fabricating the machine and I'm working with him on modifications that will let us get some usable power out of it. Videos to follow soon.

[Les_K]

Hi Les,

My thoughts are that the duty cycle should be just long enough to saturate the core/s of the coils. I don't know or can't remember if John B ever posted what it was for his setup. It will be different for every setup as we all have different coils.

My experience with the Monopole SSG is to tune it for the least amount of draw current to best rate of charging. But that may not necessarily apply to the GT16-3 in some way.

The timing of the hall, duty cycle, placement of the coils, iron flap angle, coil gap, etc. are all variables that you'll have to experiment with. Kind of like tuning up a car I think.


John K.

Thanks John,

I couldn't adjust the dwell any better so I have gone to smaller magnets. that seems to have helped.
But here is what's interesting. As I adjust the timing Advance or retard it just like in a car. One transistor will be cold and the other quite warm. then as I change the timing it will get to where they will both be cold and then as I continue the other tranny will start getting warm. I don't have as much control over the dwell as I had hoped but I think this is pretty close.

I agree with what you are saying about the differences, in all our builds and that's why I am looking for patterns. certainly after playing with this machine.... it is no SSG, or G-field, or window motor. I have made them all, and this is exactly as John bedini said; very different. Very complex!
Not for the light of heart! However it is the greatest learning I have had on any of my builds.
watching how John's amp meter moves in the videos and seeing mine do the same thing, it looks like the pulse is not so much a spike as we are used to. It really is starting appear more like a pump to me.

Anyway, I really appreciate your time and answers John K, I know you guys are really involved in things for the convention.

Les

[John_K]

Thanks John, I sorta figured that out. the pdf file I posted showed my hall was on almost through the whole duty cycle of the coil.
In this one there is 156ms duty cycle with roughly a 100ms period and 56 ms period.
Given a 156ms duty cycle what would I like to see as an ideal pulse width?


Thanks
Les

Hi Les,

My thoughts are that the duty cycle should be just long enough to saturate the core/s of the coils. I don't know or can't remember if John B ever posted what it was for his setup. It will be different for every setup as we all have different coils.

My experience with the Monopole SSG is to tune it for the least amount of draw current to best rate of charging. But that may not necessarily apply to the GT16-3 in some way.

The timing of the hall, duty cycle, placement of the coils, iron flap angle, coil gap, etc. are all variables that you'll have to experiment with. Kind of like tuning up a car I think.


John K.

[Les_K]

Hi Les,

That's looking better, thanks!

So can you see that the duty cycle is fairly high.


John K.

Thanks John, I sorta figured that out. the pdf file I posted showed my hall was on almost through the whole duty cycle of the coil.
In this one there is 156ms duty cycle with roughly a 100ms period and 56 ms period.
Given a 156ms duty cycle what would I like to see as an ideal pulse width?


Thanks
Les

[John_K]

Here you go. I have marked the X and Y axis and if the resolution is clear enough you should be able to see freq voltage etc. in the bottom of the screen.

Les

Hi Les,

That's looking better, thanks!

So can you see that the duty cycle is fairly high.


John K.

[Les_K]

Hi Les,

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Can you please post a scope shot of the scope ground on the MJL21194 collector and the scope probe on the MJL21193 collector?


John K.

Here you go. I have marked the X and Y axis and if the resolution is clear enough you should be able to see freq voltage etc. in the bottom of the screen.

Les

[John_K]

John K,
Here is the scope shot of both collectors.
MJL21194 is the green Channel B. And the yellow is the MJL21193 Channel A.
It kicks and almost starts on its own when I turn the power on so I must be close, I think it will do great as soon as I get the other coils on.

But I am quite sure you are right about the pulse width. I am going to adjust it.
I probably should have used smaller magnets.


Les

Hi Les,

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Can you please post a scope shot of the scope ground on the MJL21194 collector and the scope probe on the MJL21193 collector?


John K.

[Les_K]

Les,
super nice work
Have you tried paralleling more transistors yet?

Patrick

Thanks minoly,

Not yet. I am still working out the timing. It runs very nice at about 8 volts.
Self starts and all. I have a 75 volt 12,000 uf cap with some small lights attached so I can see the operation. I'll see if I can get a vid of it.

Here is a vid I put up. But I can't get the sound to work
YouTube - HPIM2124

Les


P.S. Funny; that last post happened twice..mmm

[Les_K]

John K,
Here is the scope shot of both collectors.
MJL21194 is the green Channel B. And the yellow is the MJL21193 Channel A.
It kicks and almost starts on its own when I turn the power on so I must be close, I think it will do great as soon as I get the other coils on.

But I am quite sure you are right about the pulse width. I am going to adjust it.
I probably should have used smaller magnets.


Les

[minoly]

John K,
Here is the scope shot of both collectors.
MJL21194 is the green Channel B. And the yellow is the MJL21193 Channel A.
It kicks and almost starts on its own when I turn the power on so I must be close, I think it will do great as soon as I get the other coils on.

But I am quite sure you are right about the pulse width. I am going to adjust it.
I probably should have used smaller magnets.


Les

Les,
super nice work
Have you tried paralleling more transistors yet?

Patrick

[Les_K]

John K,
Here is the scope shot of both collectors.
MJL21194 is the green Channel B. And the yellow is the MJL21193 Channel A.
It kicks and almost starts on its own when I turn the power on so I must be close, I think it will do great as soon as I get the other coils on.

But I am quite sure you are right about the pulse width. I am going to adjust it.
I probably should have used smaller magnets.


Les

[Web000x]

Hi All,
Apologies if this question should not be raised in this thread but I can't think of another place. My question refer to something JB said during his presentation. So here it goes:
I was at the november conference and had a terrific time, came back home inspired and energized and now my garage is my lab ( thanks John). I took a lot of notes and slowly digested what JB and other speakers presented.
So that's all good but there's one thing that JB said that I still can't wrap my head around. And I haven't find any referance to or have I heard it before nor after.
John was talking about radiant energy, G field and watson machine and how batteries charged that way "...after while you can use them to play maracas"
What does that mean?
My guess is that john was saying that the batteries will dry out after being charged with radiant energy....or is it to much radiant pulses will dry the batteries?....I am sure I am not getting this right and I would hate hate misquoting JB as it is not my intention. I would appreciate some insight or your understanding to shed some light on this question.
Tim

I believe that he was talking about the Watson Machine. This device only used one battery. When you try to run a load and charge the battery, it crystallizes the battery.

John said that he now uses the primary and charging batteries separately for this reason.

Dave

[John_K]

Just my machine running. runs at 22.5 RPM I can only run to 10 volts though and then it just stays on. the transistors both get quite warm. I only have the one set running right now.

the picture is a scope shot on the collector of the MJL21193 I need to work on the timing a bit but Way Way cool!

Les

Hi Les,

Great looking setup. Yay on getting it running

What do you mean by "it just stays on"? If the transistors are getting too warm you might need to reduce the arc on the hall to drop the duty cycle a bit. Can you post a scope shot of the coil, from both the collectors?


John K.

[John_K]

What about moving the side coils "1 magnet" out to each side? Then you will Get much better space. And you could still tune it right.
Just a thought.

Magnets has arrived, electronic components too! Just waiting for the magnetwire now. Think i'm going for a very heavy (lot of inertia)(concrete) 4 feet wheel and try the moving coil out trick.
But if someone tries it first or have any reason for it not to work, please let me know!
Best regards
Erik
Norway

Hi Erik,

The way I understand it is that you won't get the effect with the iron flaps if the coils are spaced 2 magnets apart.

I would also rethink the concrete wheel because I presume it would have iron reinforcing which may affect the magnetic streams. I would go for something non-magnetic like aluminium, wood, perspex etc.

My 4' rotor is an old timber table top. It's a bit wonky and not balanced perfectly, but at 25RPM it works fine for a first build.


John K.