Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[Web000x]

John B,

Found several items today that will help Scott and I complete the bottom coils of our build. Found some great reels that are 10.5" wide with 3" holes for cores and found a magnet wire distributor here in Dallas, TX that has the larger (75-80 lb.) spools of wire. Cheaper per pound than the normal 11 lb. spools that everybody carries.

All we lack is to get over that last little hurdle of confidence to pull the trigger on a potential $1500 purchase. We both have different interpretations of all the information that has been presented by you and others here. I think that there are only 2 wires (2 - #15) on the center coil and he thinks that there are 4 wires (2 - #15 and 2 - #18). Then of course there is the whole thing about half the impedance.

Any interest in proving one of us wrong?

Thanks again for your help last night!


Brent

PS Eager to see our 6' wheel begin to spin!!! "Junior" as we like to call it!

Brent,

You should find your answer to how the main coil is wound in this post:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post118557


Dave

[BrentA929]

Go John

@all,
Yes the inductance does change when the magnets pass the pole. The one thing that you can not do in the machine is twist the wires. Now each wire in the main coil has it's own resistance so this is offset a little when it turns on sort of like a mag amp but pulsed DC or more like PWM because of the switching so I had to sit and tune it for maximum power low RPM.

This is a very tedious to do as if I did not get just right I could not self start the machine. No one posted a Video of me showing it at the convention yet but someone out there has it. When I would start it from a dead stop it would accelerate backwards and slam agents three magnetic fields and dead stop then leap forward right up to 16RPM's that is how I knew I had the timing right. You all have done excellent work on this group. But now I'm going to do something I always wanted to do with a new machine just like this we must make it run with no input. Great group glad I could be here.
John B

Oh and BTW...

You go John! Running with no input? That's what I'm talking about!

I think I speak for everyone when I say, "THAT IS AWESOME!!!"


Brent

[John_K]

Hey John K

Where was that post from Jerdee at I've never seen it before.

Mark,

Post# 198 in this thread...


John K.

[BrentA929]

Almost there!

John B,

Found several items today that will help Scott and I complete the bottom coils of our build. Found some great reels that are 10.5" wide with 3" holes for cores and found a magnet wire distributor here in Dallas, TX that has the larger (75-80 lb.) spools of wire. Cheaper per pound than the normal 11 lb. spools that everybody carries.

All we lack is to get over that last little hurdle of confidence to pull the trigger on a potential $1500 purchase. We both have different interpretations of all the information that has been presented by you and others here. I think that there are only 2 wires (2 - #15) on the center coil and he thinks that there are 4 wires (2 - #15 and 2 - #18). Then of course there is the whole thing about half the impedance.

Any interest in proving one of us wrong?

Thanks again for your help last night!


Brent

PS Eager to see our 6' wheel begin to spin!!! "Junior" as we like to call it!

[Mark]

Hey John K

Where was that post from Jerdee at I've never seen it before.

[John_K]

Mag Amp

Hi Jeremy,

I've been studying and testing the Mag Amp, trying to figure it out.

A couple of questions:

1. Until now I thought the slave coils were in parallel with the 2 power windings on the main coil. Your schematic shows the slave coils in parallel with the 2 thinner windings on the main coil. Are the slave coils purely used to bias the main coil? (As a Mag Amp)

2. In the Mag Amp material I have studied it is advisable to set the DC bias of one of the windings to the "ideal operating point", where a small change in power in the control winding reflects a large change in inductance in the power windings. Is an LC meter the only practical way to measure the inductance of the power winding whilst adjusting the amount of DC bias?

Any other related information will also be helpful.


John K.

I want to discuss the principle of rotational magnetic amplifiers. I had to experiment with this principle, so I tried this....

• Take four wires, any size, but keep them same length and size for now. Keep this simple.
• Wind three wires as a trifilar coil and the fourth one by itself. The trifilar will be the Mag Amp. While the separate coil will be CONTROL. MAKE SURE TO NOT LITZ THE WIRES OR THIS EXPERIMENT WILL NOT WORK!!!
• On the Mag Amp coil, connect one power strand end to the top of the next power strand. This will be two power strands in series!! This will create high inductance on the windings!!! Measure the inductance of these windings and keep the LC meter connected.
• Now short the third available winding on the trifilar and measure the series inductance. It drops!!
• Now take the third winding ( control strand ), place it across a 9 volt battery and measure inductance.
• Flip the polarity on the 9 volt. What do you get? A gigantic inductance rise or lowering of the series power wires depending on 9 volt polarity. You can swing the inductance either way dramatically with very little input.
• Now connect the 4th single strand coil left to the third control winding instead of the 9 volt battery. This extra coil should be in PARALLEL to the control winding of the trifilar mag amp. Think of this as the impedance matched slave coils on the sides.
• Take a large Neo and slam it on top of the slave control winding! Guess what, you control the inductance to the Mag amp coil very easily!!! Both up and down!!! This all requires an A/C wave to control the inductance!!

[genessc]

You bet Ren.

I put a 330uF cap on the DC bias side to see if that would let me get the DC ON time below the 98% but it only reduced the heating of the transistor slightly. I'm not sure if using a larger capacity would make much difference.

Next is to put a cap on the output and see how that works as the load.

Take care,
Gene

Hi Gene,

Thanks for the Spark,Bang,Buzz link, for those who are interested in some basic mag amp stuff its well worth a look

Homemade Magnetic Amplifiers.

Regards

[ren]

Howdy John K,

I built me a magnetic amplifier to learn and study from. Its here in this youtube vid I put up last friday.

YouTube - 1000 Watt Magnetic Amplifier running 500 watts of lamps.

A basic Mag amp needs one AC winding and one Control winding which is controlled with DC power. (or so the mag-amp book says.) However theres a homemade mag-amp site on the sparkbangbuzz site that is what I made use of to build my mag-amp using 3 of the same model 1000va transformers.

In effect only one of the transformers is the load transformer. The other two transformers are used to create an asymetry on ONE side of the output load transformer. The other side of the output from the load transformer goes directly to the load. The two transformers are wired up on the other end of the load winding in series and finally out to the load. The DC bias of those two trafos (short for transformers) is then wired in "BFCEC" which means bifilar common end connected, which nulls the inductance of the two windings put in such relation or would if they shared a common axis and core, however in this instance it just seems to make it so the bias winding can't be shorted to cause the AC load to be powered. If you short the bias winding and the load gets power, then the DC bias windings are connected wrongly.

The interesting thing about a magnetic amp is that it "switches current". The voltage sine wave is always present on the load trafos output winding so that if you put a resistive lamp load over the winding, the sine will go flat as there is no CURRENT there to keep the sine from sagging. What happens if you use a cap as the load? I don't yet know, but will soon.

The idea is that the cap won't act as a short to the load so the full sine should still be let thru but the rate of charge would be based on the amount of current needed to bring up the rated farad capacity of the cap to the volts being output from the load trafo.

This then brought me to think about chopping the DC pulse bias. So I did that. I found that I need an ON duty of about 98% to get full output from the trafos load winding. (this without the cap on the DC bias to hold the charge, which I think might change the DUTY a little ... hopefully.) I need to add a cap there and see if it doesn't allow me to reduce the ON duty further while still being able to retain the output from the mag-amps load winding at full voltage. (albeit chopped).

So Chopping the DC bias on this mag-amp made little improvement over the power needed to turn it on or off. I am almost just as well able to use the DC bias in constant on as theres not much savings in pulsing/chopping the DC bias pulses if I still want the full rated volts output in the sine.

Thats my study of the magnetic amp I built on my bench so far. Thoughts/comments? how does this apply to the ferris wheel setup?

Seeing as the SG is a rotary magnetic amplifier that switches on a single polarity, perhaps the field shaping of the rotor is getting the waveform to trigger the drive circuit just right so that its better able to work with the now biased sine waveform that appears to be emitting a single polarity ramped over time versus the sudden drop to zero perceived as the field reguaging function on the typical SG perhaps? The balanced sine wave has the same time to drop to zero as it took to get from zero to the peak. The biased waveform presented in Nvissers vid shows that the neo has altered this sine into more of a sawtooth wave.

Good stuff... Hope I'm not off-topic sharing the mag-amp I mocked up.

Take care all,
Gene

Hi Gene,

Thanks for the Spark,Bang,Buzz link, for those who are interested in some basic mag amp stuff its well worth a look

Homemade Magnetic Amplifiers.

Regards

[Web000x]

Brent,
No the slave coils are 1/2 the impedance with single windings this all makes up a parallel transformer with different impedances This is very hard to explain but it's almost like having a time delay between coils as you can see this in the recharge output power. Three very YouNeak pulses of over 500 amps peak in one second.

John,

Were the slave coil wires unifilar wound with 18 AWG?

Thanks,

Dave

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Brent,
No diodes used.

John B,

Thanks!

Were there any diodes used with the windings for paralleling the the coils?


Brent

[John_K]

Thanks John,

I think I get what you mean. If the coil is biased reverse then the coil will take longer to charge as it will fight the bias, but then when the coil discharges, it discharges faster and with a bigger "whallop" which means a bigger spike to the cap.

I will use a large rheostat or potentiometer to find the right resistance for the bias winding. The 2nd thinner #18 winding I will experiment with using in series with the bias winding and use the passing rotor magnet to generate current to influence the DC bias.

I agree with Chuck H that it is hard to tune, which is why I want to go with a PIC as a PWM and use the hall as the PIC input to be able to adjust the switching and timing digitally. I'm also thinking of Sziklai pairs switched by optos off the PIC in place of the MJL21194 & MJL21193 to do the power winding switching. Minimal loss and faster switching.

Gotta test these ideas on the bench though.


John K.

John K,
Just use a little DC bias on one winding but reverse, you must choose the resistor, may also require a capacitor in series. I have been watching Chuck H at work with his machine I have not seen him charge the batteries yet but he can also tell you that it's not easy to tune. Just ask him he is on this group. Do not give up I did not learn this overnight.
John

[BrentA929]

Base coils

John B,

Thanks!

Were there any diodes used with the windings for paralleling the the coils?


Brent

Brent,
No the slave coils are 1/2 the impedance with single windings this all makes up a parallel transformer with different impedances This is very hard to explain but it's almost like having a time delay between coils as you can see this in the recharge output power. Three very YouNeak pulses of over 500 amps peak in one second.

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Brent,
No the slave coils are 1/2 the impedance with single windings this all makes up a parallel transformer with different impedances This is very hard to explain but it's almost like having a time delay between coils as you can see this in the recharge output power. Three very YouNeak pulses of over 500 amps peak in one second.

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

John K,
Just use a little DC bias on one winding but reverse, you must choose the resistor, may also require a capacitor in series. I have been watching Chuck H at work with his machine I have not seen him charge the batteries yet but he can also tell you that it's not easy to tune. Just ask him he is on this group. Do not give up I did not learn this overnight.
John

[BrentA929]

Base coils

John B,

You have said very little about the (slave) outer coils except for the impedance being half that of the center coil. Are the slave coils made up of the same number of windings as the center coil? Is the length of the (4) windings in the center coil all the same length (4000 turns)?

Also, question in regards to the size of the cores. Would you suggest that the cores be bigger than the width of the magnets? We have 6"x2" magnets...should we make them at least 2" diameter or bigger?

Thanks for your continued guidance!!!


Brent

John K,
How can I help you. did you get it running? I would study my coils as I said the coils are two different impedances and that the coil must be big in the center double the outside coils I could measure them if you want.
John