3 Battery Generating System

[Duncan]

Wantomake … I'm sorry Its medical Necessity that takes you to Japan instead of pleasure, The Original article On Hutchinson's cell and its development in Japan seems to have disappeared off the net (like so much else) however this copy and paste is from the link below … and as you can see the cell is at least in a museum and so you may actually get to see it!
Unfortunately I can't remember which museum where. Still if you have a bit of spare time before you travel perhaps Japan Tourist information ? or your web search might prove more profitable than mine

@ChristianMuslum According to Marcus Reid of RexResearch, the corrosion stops occurring after some period of time. Also – John Hutchison has a battery in a Japanese museum which has been running for more than a decade now – if corrosion was the cause of the electricity it would be likely that his battery would have run out by now.
Most people agree that the electricity is generated by the piezoelectric effect (pressure onto certain crystals generates electricity).

How to make crystal batteries free energy 1 of 2 | I Love Free Energy
John Hutchison anti-gravity free energy - YouTube

[davesw]

Hi Guys,
Could I ask here for a bit of clarification on the term “Battery” in the precis post above? I seem to remember from way back, this meant lead acid car type batteries? Is this still so? Has anyone tried other types of battery? Do all three need to be the same? Any other potential questions that I don’t know enough to ask?

Many thanks,
Dave

[Duncan]

wot battery?

Hi Guys,
Could I ask here for a bit of clarification on the term “Battery” in the precis post above? I seem to remember from way back, this meant lead acid car type batteries? Is this still so? Has anyone tried other types of battery? Do all three need to be the same? Any other potential questions that I don’t know enough to ask?

Many thanks,
Dave

Hi Davesw … Its fair to say that a good 70% of this thread has been dedicated to that very subject . if what you see referred to as “a bad battery” could be considered a battery at all in any true sense of the word. It being at best a heavily sulphated thing that in the normal circumstances would not hold a charge or take any charge current .
I have only used Lead acid gel cells with any success although others have experimented with all and everything under the sun in order to try and duplicate and stabilise the effect. Here is a (battery?) which worked here you see I am straight across it with a multimeter on Ohms …
The Battery - YouTube
That's the sort of thing your ambition should require … although I suggest the closest that gets to a battery is it looks a bit like one !
The circuit is really ridiculously simple … and still remains basically the same as when David first connected it together years ago




It was noted by Matt that the same type of batteries are required … however in recent experiments with an anti-phase oscillator that I outline here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10610-3-battery-generating-system-68.html#post230621

and have been substantiated by others also using pulse technology. Ergo it starts to seem that holding a very good stable impedance match plays a significant part.
Some Time ago I took a little bit of video which is basically a function generator set to “square wave” directly across the bad battery you’ve just seen .. I was seeking the batteries “parallel resonant point” where of course the square wave would transform into a Sine wave … looking at it now I suspect I would have found it quicker without the help Banyard station Red .
3bs - YouTube

following that shambolic video I built the thing you’ve seen in the Tupperware box … In the way described and found in the “bad battery” series resonant points on the expected overtone's
up to 3.5 MHz which is the limit of my FG.
Have the batteries been dissected ? I think the guys on this thread have done everything conceivable to the “bad battery” to try and keep things stable .. In fact I think David's taken one or two out to dinner …
…I hope that gives you some Idea of the batteries .... alas its not as simple as going to the shop a buying three batterys and a motor .. but its close to an answer !

[Turion]

davesw,
Yes all three batteries need to be the same kind. The original batteries I had were AGM. I have had runs up to four weeks long where the primaries charged and I was able to run loads using flooded lead acid before the batteries repaired themselves. BUT, I have also wondered if there might be something about an AGM battery that (once it gets in the condition we want) prevents it from repairing itself, which was why I had a setup that worked originally.

Duncan,
I have always wondered if the reason my original setup quit working was that when I took it apart to take to the patent lawyer in California, I put it back together with the motor wired in reverse and that was why it no longer worked. Or the battery repaired itself. Who knows.

I also aded a couple more things to the summary above

[davesw]

Many thanks for the useful and prompt response, Duncan and Turian.

I think a bit of explanation from me is needed here. I am indeed a dabbler in your thread as my main interest is Newman Motors. I found you via a (lengthy) digression to UFO and his motors.

I think that the real answers may be found when we start to ‘cross pollinate’ between the various concepts. I think they all have core truths, and where those truths intercept is where we will find the answers we seek.

Part of my early training was the repair and charging of lead acid batteries. (I worked for the EXIDE agents at a time when batteries were actually repaired!!!) So I am trying to understand exactly what is happening here from my point of view. Please forgive my stupid questions, I will try to return with some perhaps useful views.

However, I must clarify right here up front, that I am not 2000+ posts of red herrings, side tracks and waffle interested. Post one is very good and sets most things out quite clearly, and I am happy with other answers which point me to relevant posts. So please don’t feel that I think you should rewrite the whole thing for my benefit because I am too lazy to look myself!

Turian,
In post one you say -
“But MORE than that. My original device ran loads off battery three that could not POSSIBLY have been run by the energy produced by the motor if it is only EQUAL to that provided to the motor by batteries one and two. “

Please, a brief clarification here – are you referring to an actual physical load on the motor shaft, or to the bulbs across bat 3. What is your thinking here and could you give some specifics about it so I can understand better exactly what I am looking at?
Many thanks,
Dave

[citfta]

Mechanical Load

Hi davesw, I am not sure how much load Turion actually had on his motor but I am sure it was a mechanical load. If you read post one carefully he explains that you have to keep the load on the motor balanced against the load on batt #3. In other words as you increase the electrical load on batt #3 you have to increase the mechanical load on the motor so that the current through the motor increases also to be able to maintain the electrical load on batt #3. I personally at one time had an inverter connected to batt #3 and had a load on the inverter of a 60 watt 120 volt bulb. I measured the voltage on the bulb and it was 120 volts just as it should have been coming from the inverter. I had a 24 volt scooter motor connected as my motor. Of course it was not running at full speed because of the reduced voltage to it. However I had the scooter motor connected to a 90 volt DC motor which I was using as a generator. Since the speed of the scooter motor is normally twice the speed of the DC motor it worked fine turning the DC motor as a generator. I was able to use the DC motor as a generator to light a 6 watt 120 volt night light to almost full brightness. The voltage on it was about 95 volts because I was turning the generator at only a little above its normal speed.

By varying the size of the bulb on my inverter and the size of the bulb on the generator I was able to get my system into balance. You have to be vary careful if you use an inverter on batt #3 as the system has a habit of destroying inverters so most of us have stopped using them on batt #3. However by getting my system balanced I was able to run this system for almost a week by running it for an hour or so and then letting my batteries rest for several hours. They would come back to full voltage by themselves and then I could run it again for an hour or so. Since I could run them like this for a week I really don't believe the batteries were just restoring their surface charge like some have theorized. My system only stopped working when the bad battery started getting repaired and taking a normal charge.

As Turion has said several times and I can verify, this system only does the magic or whatever you want to call it with certain "dead" batteries. I have gone through probably 30 or more "dead" batteries and only found 1 that really worked well as batt #3. A lot of people have tried this and not seen anything special because they didn't find the right "dead" battery.

Well anyway hope this info is some help to you and I am looking forward to any info you can give us about "dead" batteries.

Respectfully, Carroll

[Turion]

Carroll is right, this thing can be hell on inverters. I have burnt up some expensive ones! Having said that, my original setup did use an inverter. I was brand new to this stuff, so I took no real measurements whatsoever. I balanced the loads on the inverter by torquing down on a pulley arrangement I had connected to the motor which made it harder for the motor to turn. This was hard on the rubber belt. I ran a shop vac, a lamp and an electric drill all at the same time, but how many watts or amps that pulled, I could't tell you. I ran these devices and several others (there were only three plugs on the inverter) for most of a day and for several days in a row and the primaries went up so high in voltage(one of those days...17 or 18 volts) that we got scared and ran out of the room.

On another occasion I also connected the thing to my dad's bank of 6 volt (wired in pairs for 12 volts, and then wired in series) battery bank which was dead and charged the entire bank in less than a half hour.

Those are examples of the power this thing puts out.

That was then, and this is now. Here at the house I have a light board with a row of bulbs that are AC, and a row of bulbs that are DC all connected to switches. I have run a motor attached to the shaft of the Razor Scooter motor as generator through a full wave bridge to the DC bulbs, and connected an inverter to battery 3 to run the AC bulbs. AT times I have had 65 watts on the AC side balanced with 150 watts on the DC side for quite a while. There HAVE been times when the AC side was up over 300 watts, but that was hard to balance and it would not run long before the inverter shut it off. That still really doesn't give you any direct measurement of what the setup was putting out, but on these occasions the primary batteries either went up in voltage slightly, or went down slightly but regained their original charge (or higher) after resting.

Dave

[davesw]

AAGH!!!
I can’t believe that you guys have actually managed to suck me into this! I swore I wouldn’t get involved in another of these things. Do you realize that perpetual motion has been discovered? We just have not recognized it yet!

It is US searching for answers in these threads LOL!

There is one high level truth in all these things, and that is the fact that for every answer we find there are 5 more questions created. Every answer opens the gate that pulls questions out of the vacuum.

Anyway, many thanks for the answers they do help and I am digging deeper (Yes I know! You win!) Once I have clarified a few things in my mind I will come back with how I see it.

Dave

[Duncan]

AAGH!!!
I can’t believe that you guys have actually managed to suck me into this! I swore I wouldn’t get involved in another of these things. Do you realize that perpetual motion has been discovered? We just have not recognized it yet!

It is US searching for answers in these threads LOL!

There is one high level truth in all these things, and that is the fact that for every answer we find there are 5 more questions created. Every answer opens the gate that pulls questions out of the vacuum.

Anyway, many thanks for the answers they do help and I am digging deeper (Yes I know! You win!) Once I have clarified a few things in my mind I will come back with how I see it.

Dave

Hi Davesw … suckered? Never! if your lucky enough to get the right side of this thing performing its phenomenally exhilarating .. there are no ifs or buts with this thing … catch it in a fighting mood. It’ll batter you all around the ring and then be looking for the next opponent .. Rocky Marciano on steroids .
The trouble is once you’ve experienced it ….

[Turion]

Dave,
The one good thing about this setup is that it isn't that expensive to play with. Most people doing any kind of FE research have a couple batteries lying around and bad ones you can pick up for free. I have a deal with three different stores in my area where I trade bad battery for bad battery. Auto parts places, Batteries + and other stores can help you out. Even auto salvage yards. Lots of places have stacks of bad batteries just crying out to be tested.

Like Carroll, I have gone through a LOT of bad batteries to find a few that would work. Duncan was lucky and got one first shot, but that doesn't happen often. So good luck. Finding a battery that will work in the third position is frustration number one. But what is even MORE frustrating is when this setup repairs it and restores it to like new. I should go into the battery sales business since I have all these bad batteries I have restored, but I just convert them over to alum and will add them to my battery bank for the off the grid system I am building up at my new place. For right now, I have a vented room full of restored, charged batteries stacked on shelves if the power ever goes out here in California from an earthquake or whatever.

But please understand, this is not JUST about the battery anymore. The motor design for a pulse motor Matt disclosed here puts out more power than it takes in. (Not a lot, but a couple volts!) If you pulse that motor on a high voltage (36 volts or higher) you have adequate torque to do some serious work. If that motor is connected in the 3BGS setup with 48 volts on one side and 12 on the other, and you pulse it by interrupting the connection between the primaries and battery 3, you get incredibly long run times without discharging the primaries, even with a NOT SO GREAT bad battery...running off the potential difference. Now you can do work. What work you ask. Now we're working on a lenz free generator to be run by Matt's motor as the prime mover. So this thing is moving forward step by step, and we WILL figure it out. Little bits of info are coming to light every single day, and I can't wait for each day to start. Some day SOON!!!

Dave

[erfinder]

Dave,
But please understand, this is not JUST about the battery anymore. The motor design for a pulse motor Matt disclosed here puts out more power than it takes in. (Not a lot, but a couple volts!) If you pulse that motor on a high voltage (36 volts or higher) you have adequate torque to do some serious work. If that motor is connected in the 3BGS setup with 48 volts on one side and 12 on the other, and you pulse it by interrupting the connection between the primaries and battery 3, you get incredibly long run times without discharging the primaries, even with a NOT SO GREAT bad battery...running off the potential difference. Now you can do work. What work you ask. Now we're working on a lenz free generator to be run by Matt's motor as the prime mover. So this thing is moving forward step by step, and we WILL figure it out. Little bits of info are coming to light every single day, and I can't wait for each day to start. Some day SOON!!!

Dave

Now this is what I have been waiting to hear. Matt is in my opinion spot on with it being a motor thing....I have gotten similar results......I have a "prime mover" (I'm not justified in calling it a motor....yet...), which leaves the input at higher voltage than what you started with.

Like Matt's motor mine generates a (forgive the term...) transient like phenomena which like in the 3BGS goes off the scope in both directions, regardless of zoom....(this is not the collapsing field transient....I have that transient suppressed, doing measurable work!!!) when this wave manifests, everything electronic in the working area of the device and beyond if sensitive enough stops working....LOL....

Operating this device is likened to operating a powerful Tesla coil wanna be, every electronic device in the house has a powerful interference superimposed into it! If that device has an amplifier in it....the amplifier amplifies the interference!!! Unlike the 3BGS, my machine has no commutator...so there is no sparking of any kind....the device is electronically commuted...simple PWM, and yet, I get behavior similar to spark gap or commutated devices...

Not sure if you guys are experiencing these kinds of effects yet...if so do tell...if not...interesting....as we are generating a similar waveform...

Regards

Regards

[Matthew Jones]

.
Like Matt's motor mine generates a (forgive the term...) transient like phenomena which like in the 3BGS goes off the scope in both directions, regardless of zoom....(this is not the collapsing field transient....I have that transient suppressed, doing measurable work!!!) when this wave manifests, everything electronic in the working area of the device and beyond if sensitive enough stops working....LOL....

Its a Scalar. Put it in an old microwave, the spike will come through.

Matt

[Duncan]

Its a Scalar. Put it in an old microwave, the spike will come through.

Matt

Great Matt ... straight to the point .... I was /am busy writing tests and looking for that clip of the guy in canada putting the Radio in a dustbin .
bang "job done" still I'll keep scribbling .. keeps me out of trouble!

[erfinder]

Its a Scalar. Put it in an old microwave, the spike will come through.

Matt

Right...I am making no claims...I have no idea what the wave is....all I can say is nothing stops it...it doesn't appear that you can shield it.... I had the the device in something akin to a Faraday cage, and it didn't stop the waves coming out of the device from interfering with everything electronic in the room!

Your response leads me to believe that you too have experienced this kind of destructive behavior from your device?

Regards


Note...
My previous statement regarding it (the scalar?) not being stoppable isn't entirely accurate....if you touch the coils which isn't possible in many cases like with the 3BGS you can dampen the broadcast ability, not eliminate it but dampen it...also, if you place a bifilar wound pancake in close proximity to the device with the bifilar pancake shorted on itself, it has a similar dampening effect....for what its worth....

[Duncan]

Right...I am making no claims...I have no idea what the wave is....all I can say is nothing stops it...it doesn't appear that you can shield it.... I had the the device in something akin to a Faraday cage, and it didn't stop the waves coming out of the device from interfering with everything electronic in the room!

Your response leads me to believe that you too have experienced this kind of destructive behavior from your device?

Regards


Note...
My previous statement regarding it (the scalar?) not being stoppable isn't entirely accurate....if you touch the coils which isn't possible in many cases like with the 3BGS you can dampen the broadcast ability, not eliminate it but dampen it...also, if you place a bifilar wound pancake in close proximity to the device with the bifilar pancake shorted on itself, it has a similar dampening effect....for what its worth....

Hi erfinder … Do you not notice the thread goes quite for a little while only to flare up again ? I'm sure its when we decide to explain to confer a little. Sometimes I must confess I stop and think of the implications of what's inescapably happening in front of us and find it more than a little frightening … Its just overwhelmingly huge … isn’t it?
That in due course that the motor could be done away with .. and the batteries too , why I can believe that .. whatever s happening no doubt at some point it can be duplicated electronically.. still right now as David says … many people are getting actively involved and for a “pocket money”
Investment.
Now David has told me after his many years of wrestling with the system that perhaps one in thirty batteries might “do the business” I start to realise how fortunate I was to “hit a honey” first time.
But all that aside information such as you have just posted floods in both on and off forum.
I have used a push pull circuit as described earlier … obviously with the transformer in circuit, I then added more Inductance, It returned the spikes pretty much as you describe .. I think we all are aware that spike is key … the question you seem to ask is what might the wave form inside that spike that we see as Instantaneous look like?
Well I also must clutch at straws and make a guess .. so view this as a “grim fairy” tale if'n you want
The fact that you are interfering with …. everything … Immediately says “linear wave” ( that’s the one that doesn't exist by the way) to test that put a radio in a tin … or dustbin .. just like this
20110324185908 (1).mpg - YouTube
There are six short video's the third rather explains the wave you are considering … the dustbin arrives!
But please to keep in mind its only a linear wave because of what its directed at …and of course what's reflected back. So in the case of this circuit there is no way to isolate any one part. like all RF touch it .. add a coil change anything ... everything else will change! Officially the linear wave doesn't exist .. OAPs all across Europe are eating dog food and standing in food queues whilst a multi million Euro farce built into a mountain might announce … “one day” perhaps .. that it does .. send them a video of 3BS in a dustbin and see if they will throw a weeks wages in the form of a couple of million bangers at research such as we are doing here. ( I think you know the result that will have) unless we are prepaired to bury it of course … And I take it we do and will not! Oh and the wave form inside I think (depending on scale) it could well be the shape of a lash