3 Battery Generating System

[Turion]

If you want to understand what current science has to say about what is going on in a battery, and how to influence the electrolyte, check this out:

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1163&context=physicskatz

Understanding WHAT can be used as an electrolyte and how that will affect what happens in the batteries is why it would be awsome to get a chemist involved with this. (Yeah, I keep harping about that..but I can dream, can't I?)

Dave

[pault]

Brainstorming. Is this related to what you're observing?

Electret - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Electrets

[tachyoncatcher]

Sorta

@pault,
Yes and no. Mostly no. The 3rd battery does build a charge. But, there is magnetic potential built up as well. Wrap a coil of wire around the 3rd battery during a test and the battery will induce power into the coil. LABs are not typically magnetic. The 3rd battery in this system is.

As far as the static potential, as in an electret? My gut says no. Why not you might ask. -- Electrolyte --

Randy

[Turion]

pault,
I'd have to agree with Randy. Electrets receive their charge from high voltage source and then continuously generate their own charge. We are working with low voltage here. Perhaps we have discovered a low voltage electret, but I doubt it. What we have is an influx into the system of power that cannot be explained by the power available to the system in the two primary batteries, especially as in SOME cases, the primaries actually charge up to a higher state of charge than they started with. And it is NOT just a surface charge. I've tested that numerous times. Interesting idea though. From what I have read of John Hutchison's experiments in this area, he pretty much has it down to a science on how to create electret power cells which continually regenerate their voltage and can supply it. Also, from what I understand this voltage is in the millivolt range. (I could be wrong on this, but at the time I was researching John H, that's where he was. Could have been major improvements since.) What we are seeing here is much higher voltage than that. But I never discount anything, so I will definitely keep this in mind as we move forward.

Dave

[wrtner]

A rather pedestrian question but...

I'm having trouble getting a 12, 24v brushed motor. Is there a way
of testing whether a motor out of a 14vdc power drill is brushed or
not? It looks brushless but is there a test?

Paul-R

[Turion]

The simplest test I know is run it in the dark. If it is brushed, you are going to see some sparks as the brushes make and break contact with the commutator segments. A brushless motor will run with no sparks at all. The brushes might be shielded so you CAN'T see sparks, but I doubt it.

Dave

[tachyoncatcher]

Brushed Motor

@wrtner
Raid the scrapyard for an old universal motor. From a old vacuum cleaner, 110 volt ac power tool, etc. While these are rated for 110v ac they will work great for what you want. After all, you will have to rewind the coils anyway. This way you will have a pulse motor that you can load up, should you see the bizarre effect that keeps this thread alive. And when that happens, you will want to put on loads that would burn up a cordless drill in a second. When things get interesting, there is a feed back through the pulse motor. Any DVM near battery3 will become useless. We have had scopes that picked up the crazy spikes on a 4" ungrounded copper ball from 30' away.... oh, and that was with a Faraday cage around the motor. I know, sounds like BS. This you can test yourself with a sorta bad battery in the 3rd position. It doesn't have to be the amazing one, just bad enough to give you under 12v potential to start. The motor will start, the DVMs will jump around and your scope will show that screwy spike.
Randy

[Turion]

This from Imhotep in another thread concerning his charger:

"ive had some batteries that continued charging after they were removed. they would continue charging until they burst their seals. and as long as i wasnt drawing current off of them they would destroy themselves. ive also had a battery that is still giving off power and has not been charged since 2008. if u go all the way back in this thread you will find me mentioning in 2008 a clock that continues to run to this day with no signs of running out of energy. aaron had thought it had become an electret. so yes i have experienced some batteries that continue to produce energy. i dont know under what circumstances or what fan i used at the time so i dont know if i can reproduce those same results"

[Duncan]

[Turion]

I pm'd ibpointless2 to see if he would take a look at what we are doing here, and perhaps we can get him involved.

Perhaps what we are in need of is that cap as the third battery and then pulling the potential difference off of it (as ibpointless has demonstrated is possible) to recharge the primaries, all the while running the motor for free while it is connected to a generator. There is going to be something we put together with this setup that works. It is only a matter of time. And yes indeed she is a tight lipped b*%#&, but we're gonna keep after her until she blurts out all her secrets.

Dave

[wantomake]

would like to see

Hey Duncan,

You always get my attention. I know you don't know me, most here don't. That's ok. But if I could I'd like to see those Hutchinson cells in Japan. I will stay there this summer, someone in my family needs some medical things done. But it kills me to leave when you post all these interesting experiments to try. I did watch the video you posted the link to. Tried not laugh, but want to start on this after my return. Iron pyrite, sounds like will need to study A LOT while while have much down time there in Japan.

As I posted on the Imhotep's threaded, I will leave a battery charging on the radiant fan charger for a week or longer(if he suggest) to see what will be the results. I do have someone to watch/report the findings to me. Don't worry I'm sure it will be safely watched.

Hey RF we are coming for you. And yes "she" is still keeping us all interested.

wantomake

[wrtner]

I pm'd ibpointless2 to see if he would take a look at what we are doing here

Is he going to be asked to read over 2,000 messages?

Maybe this is a moment to make a precis of the 70 pages for
new people.

[Turion]

I gave him my phone number and e-mail so we would communicate directly. I'm not hiding from anyone and have no problem talking to folks who are interested in this. But your point is well taken. The only problem is, there are things others have learned that haven't been mentioned here, and they would have to jump in on that. I'm not at all sure I could accurately summarize all we have learned, but I will try and sit down sometime today and give it a shot.

Dave

[Turion]

OK, as to a precis for new folks.

The setup is exactly what it has always been. Connect two good batteries in series and then reverse the third "bad" battery and connect it. Depending on which end of the series batteries you connect the bad third battery to, you either have two positives left to connect your motor to, or two negatives. My original motor was connected between the two positives, but I have had lots of success connecting a brushed dc motor between the two negatives. We're not sure it makes a difference. But it DOES make a difference which direction your motor rotates. Switch the wires on the motor and you will see it runs faster one way over the other.

Things we do know.
1. Increasing the resistance between the poles of the bad battery lengthens the run times before the primaries began to discharge.
A. Connecting large resistors between the poles of the primaries seems to help accomplish this.
B. Changes in the electrolyte can accomplish this.
C. Drying out the battery somewhat can accomplish this
2. A battery that WON'T hold a charge is the very best battery you can use in the 3rd position.Most batteries will accept a charge, but some, for whatever reason, won't hold it. These work the best.

3. You can get many of the same effects we get with a bad battery by using a capacitor in the third position, but you will almost always lose voltage in your primaries.

4. If you do short runs and pulse the motor, the primaries can completely recover and in some cases gain voltage.

5. With some setups the primaries gain voltage.

6. With some setups the batteries ice up or turn cold.

7. A dc motor or a pulse motor output more voltage than is input in the 3BGS configuration.

8. All three batteries should be the same kind, i.e. flooded lead acid or AGM.

9. The more you can figure out ways to PULSE the system the longer you can go without primaries discharging.

10. When you use a standard motor and you get the system in the zone ( balanced loads---see post #1) the more torque it has.

If you want tech aspects of what people have seen on their scopes and meters, you will have to read the posts. I'm not going back through all these pages to spoon feed anybody either. It is posted. It is here. If you care enough you will find it. You will read LOTS of examples of folks who have seen successes with this. And some folks who have seen nothing because they didn't have the right bad battery, which I have always said is the "key."

David

[Duncan]

perhaps.....?

Thats great there were bits of that I either didn't Know David or had forgotten .. I dont know if you took rotor speeds with the motor connected in the two positions,(where the speed varied) but I would be very interested in the speed difference between one connection and the other ..I did notice it myself but the significance didn't dawn on me, ( It may have now I have see it written down) I ponder ... If it relate to and is directly proportional to the difference in velocity between the transverse and the linear wave it would confirm and fill in a huge gap.
transverse wave = speed of light = 186,000 miles/sec

Linear wave = pi/2 x 186,000 miles/sec so David if that speed difference
is approx 291/186 = 1.5 ish it would.. whilst not proving the harmonic and overtone relationship put a great deal of weight behind it