3 Battery Generating System

[Michael John Nunnerley]

No not missed it, found it

Duncan, different batteries maybe, but the chemistry is the same, all I was doing was proving a point that I had in my mind that chemistry and using electrons twice is what could be giving the results.

All the effects were the same as stated, just on a small scale. If you require to charge your feed battery with some power from the circuit it is powering, then that circuit would have to be pulsed, it would have to have an OFF PERIOD for the charge to go back. But now if part of the chemistry in the battery changes, as I have shown, then the tables change, the charge can take place while you have a straight DC current, the reversed battery is in charge mode and accepts electrons to charge, even though they have passed through a motor and other load they have not been given up and lost in a normal circuit from positive to negative.

Electrons are not lost until they have completed the circuit, and in this case the completed circuit is after the battery which is in charge mode "can be batt3 or some of the cells in the run battery, the later will depend on the condition of batt:3 and possibly the type of battery, but all types should work, just some better than others.

The good thing is you have gained energy by using those electrons twice rather than once. As Dr. Stiffler has once said, you can only use electrons twice to give a gain and only in IONIC CONDUCTION, this is what happens in batteries.

Mike

P.S. you need the battery 3 in charge recieving mode and have a potencial difference in the circuit for this to work, I do it all the time in electrolysis, but my battery 3 is a supercap of 10F

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Forgot to say

Forgot to say, the maximum gain would theoreticly be 200% but there are always losses, so lets say 185%, a gain YES, but is explained as I have and breaks no laws, it is chemistry and physics used in a special way.

Mike

[Turion]

Michael John Nunnerley,

So even if the gain is only 185% you get the motor to run for free, and if that motor can be connected to a lenz free generator......

That should still make this a viable system, don't you think?

Dave

[Duncan]

bout this drum ... I like the tempo

Forgot to say, the maximum gain would theoreticly be 200% but there are always losses, so lets say 185%, a gain YES, but is explained as I have and breaks no laws, it is chemistry and physics used in a special way.

Mike

I think there's much more to come Mike, but I'm sure no ones going to bite the hand that feeds. If there's a demonstrable theory that gives us a gain we'll grab that with both hands!

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Michael John Nunnerley,

So even if the gain is only 185% you get the motor to run for free, and if that motor can be connected to a lenz free generator......

That should still make this a viable system, don't you think?

Dave

Straight answer is yes, but there are tech: problems as you have found and I do not know how the batteries will stand up to time. It is like charge discharge all the time and rapid "can be seen by the iratic rise and fall of voltage I saw on one of your videos, also seen here when things are setup.

I am drawing out a slightly different approach so as you can see very easly what is happening and theoreticly should work, just trying to get rid of the bad battery which is one of the tech: problems, there has to be an ionic bridge there

Mike

[Duncan]

Battery ... cap

I seem to remember that south African system (which now seems to have dropped out of sight)
reported battery troubles.
Final Update on South African Fuel-Free Generator Before...
However mike although not available In Europe (as far as I know) they do make a hybrid battery/capacitor in the USA
BatCap by Xstatic Home Page

[Michael John Nunnerley]

[Michael John Nunnerley]

I seem to remember that south African system (which now seems to have dropped out of sight)
reported battery troubles.
Final Update on South African Fuel-Free Generator Before...
However mike although not available In Europe (as far as I know) they do make a hybrid battery/capacitor in the USA
BatCap by Xstatic Home Page

Five "5" 10F supercaps @2.7v from Maxwell @ around 5 euros should give a battery of 2F @ 12v+ 20 pounds +-

Mike

[Turion]

The only two things I want to be clear on here is that I have seen this setup continuously run (for 7 days on end, both day and night) loads off the inverter that far, far, far exceed the 180% output of two 18 amp hour batteries. Second, I put 18 discharged batteries in parallel with battery three, and it charged them up in less than an hour. So it is capable of large amounts of power in a short period of time, provided it is batteries you are trying to charge. And I know that two 18 amp hour batteries ....even at 180% of capacity...did not contain near what is necessary to charge up 18 (actually 18 pairs of six volt batteries) that were over 100 amp hours each. Just those two incidents that I was a personal witness to indicate to me that there is something more to this.

HOWEVER, I will be happy just to get the free use of an electric motor out of the setup that can hook to a generator, as I believe most people would.

I can also say from personal experience that when you get a setup that is causing your primaries to go up, it seems to raise the voltage limits on the primary batteries

I would conclude with this...

Until we replicate what I saw with my original setup, we have what we have. We should develop what we know works to its fullest potential no matter what path it takes us down, and if you are traveling that road I will be right beside you. But that doesn't mean I won't take weekends off to research the original circuit until I replicate the results I saw with my first setup. I saw what I saw, and nothing will ever convince me that I did not. I realize that until someone else, or possibly MANY someone else's see it too, I am to be considered full of hot air, and I can live with that. This is too important to let feelings get in the way of results.

Dave

[shylo]

capacitor connections

It all has to do with how you connect the capacitors.
I've tried multiple connections,two connections in two different locations....
Make a difference...Same connection but at a different location.....different result...
Need to look at it like a ball ,not a piece of paper
When its' a dead battery, it's a capacitor, it will take charge ,but not hold it
When it's a dead battery ,that accumulates charge, it's not a capacitor
Still trying to find the right balance
shylo

[Duncan]

Balls!

It all has to do with how you connect the capacitors.
I've tried multiple connections,two connections in two different locations....
Make a difference...Same connection but at a different location.....different result...
Need to look at it like a ball ,not a piece of paper
When its' a dead battery, it's a capacitor, it will take charge ,but not hold it
When it's a dead battery ,that accumulates charge, it's not a capacitor
Still trying to find the right balance
shylo

[Turion]

shylo,
I woud definitely be interested in ANY success with caps. I've never had a successful run with a cap in the third position, so I'm very curious. I am ALSO curious as to what you meant by "same connection but at a different location" .

Can you give us a schematic of how you are including the caps in the system?

Dave

[Michael John Nunnerley]

The only two things I want to be clear on here is that I have seen this setup continuously run (for 7 days on end, both day and night) loads off the inverter that far, far, far exceed the 180% output of two 18 amp hour batteries. Second, I put 18 discharged batteries in parallel with battery three, and it charged them up in less than an hour. So it is capable of large amounts of power in a short period of time, provided it is batteries you are trying to charge. And I know that two 18 amp hour batteries ....even at 180% of capacity...did not contain near what is necessary to charge up 18 (actually 18 pairs of six volt batteries) that were over 100 amp hours each. Just those two incidents that I was a personal witness to indicate to me that there is something more to this.

HOWEVER, I will be happy just to get the free use of an electric motor out of the setup that can hook to a generator, as I believe most people would.

I can also say from personal experience that when you get a setup that is causing your primaries to go up, it seems to raise the voltage limits on the primary batteries

I would conclude with this...

Until we replicate what I saw with my original setup, we have what we have. We should develop what we know works to its fullest potential no matter what path it takes us down, and if you are traveling that road I will be right beside you. But that doesn't mean I won't take weekends off to research the original circuit until I replicate the results I saw with my first setup. I saw what I saw, and nothing will ever convince me that I did not. I realize that until someone else, or possibly MANY someone else's see it too, I am to be considered full of hot air, and I can live with that. This is too important to let feelings get in the way of results.

Dave

Hi Dave, you maybe right, I can only say what I have seen and can confirm from tests "only done by me on my setup".

Battery chemistry is both simple and rather mistifying at times, I also did not take ANY consideration for the motor as a possible source of charge. I did scope it to see any spikes on the motor and as expected there were, but even this can change depending on the motor used and if it was pulsed. Pulsing gives a bigger spike as there is the off period well defined, and my motor is small but powerful as it is a capstan drive for a VCR, has good torque.

I wish I had your exact setup that I could do the same here, but I don't, and I am not going out to buy all I need to do that as I have a budget for my work only I'm affraid.

The problem is if there is such a narrow area to make this work, we could have big problems to keep a working system running without problems, that is why I am looking to see what it is that is causing this. My tests are one of the things that are happening, which is good, but as you say there seems to be something else as well, it is finding that something else.

This is basicly a DC circuit "apart from spikes" and a scope will only show these and current/voltage. At a DC setting the scope did show this eratic voltage but also the DVM, also as current draw goes down the voltage goes up, or in reverse is better said, but this is normal as there is a charge going on and current WILL fall.

I really do not know more to say at the moment, but I am throwing this around in my head and if and when I have something I will post it. One thing does come to mind and that is coils ( motor windings in a PM field ), maybe the motor wired like this is a motor generator!!!! Loading the motor down does increase the voltage, this is easly explained, the inductive resistance changes, but also there may be some type of generation, I will have to check the voltage accross the motor under different loading on it.

As can be seen there is still much that can be done, and as I have time I will do it.

Just one point is as the motor is connected between the two positives, it eventually works because the battery 3 is in charge mod ( look at my paper on eletrolytic cells and you see why ), no mistery here. What is definate is the drive batteries (2v cells in series) some of these go INTO REVERSE polarity, is this something that is causing the effect? I do not know at the moment, as I have said, battery chemistry is a mine field.

Dave have you put a DVM on the positive out of your drive battery to see what current is being drawn at different times of your run, I meen from first switch on until you have the system running as you want, this would be very helpful Also the current from your battery 3 to the run battery, and if it is a negative at any time! or any where in the circuit that shows a negative current draw!

best to you and all in this

Mike

[Duncan]

The Battery - YouTube
I have no room for loads and lights and such like here mike and so the next little bit is the motor connected in series with an infinite resistance (the battery) In the basic circuit drawn by David. Of course you know very well nothing can happen using DC with an infinite resistance in circuit
OR CAN IT ????
The motor - YouTubeone I did earlier - YouTube

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi Duncan

I have not abandoned the idea that there is more to this than meets the eye, infact on my last post as other posts, I have not yet looked at the MOTOR.

Well I have now done just that, and we do have a situation of which I have not got my head around it yet, but the motor has become, for some reason to be found, a motor generator but it's not a laughing matter, it is doing just that.

To see this you need 3 DVM's, the first in the line from the drive positive to the motor, the secound from the motor to the battery 3 and the third from battery 3 to the back drive battery, all connected for current measurement. What you will see is the first will show e.g. 100ma, the secound 150ma and the third 100ma+-, that third meter will vary but for this explination, 100ma. Now that excess 50ma on 2 is being taken by battery 3 as a charge until it is up to the design voltage of that battery (as the voltage goes up on 3 then the current draw on meter 2 will go down to match meter 1. By loading the motor ( apart from resistive inductance ) meter 1 will draw more current which meter 2 will also show, but if you load battery 3 the current draw on meter 2 will go up and also meter 1, but the current draw from the battery 3 to the back end of the drive batteries will also change to the difference of battery 3 and load draw. Bottom line is whatever is being drawn from the front of main battery bank, is also being sent back in a reverse mode to the back end of the main bank less the amount that is being "generated by motor" and any load on battery 3.

I hope I have explained myself, but it has suprised me that connecting the motor this way, and once in balance, it generates current over and above what it is using. All that apart, for this to work, battery 3 is taking in electrons that have already been used by the motor, as I have said before.

The interesting thing is, what is happening inside the motor when a certain balance of electrons takes place? Now the reverse polarity on the main back battery does change polarity when you connect a load to battery 3 as I have said before. You can create a balance of the system where it appears that you are replacing all the energy from the front batteries. I think the more important part to the circuit is THE MOTOR.

I will now go and watch your vids Duncan, exciting times.

Mike