3 Battery Generating System

[FRC]

tester16

The first bad battery I had success with is a small sla, and it still works as far as I know. I had taken it apart a while ago and added water to it, but I guess it was too far gone to save it. But for this it works good.

George

[Joit]

I tried before 1 26Ah 12V and 2x 4,5Ah SLA's.
The 26Ah has about 10,80V and seems has a sulfated or damaged Cell also.
The others smaller one sitting at about 10,70V and 11,70V. I had the same effect with a CD-Rom Drive Motor also.
I used for #1 26Ah, #2 4,5Ah at 11,70V and #3 the 4,5Ah at 10,70V. #3 did go up to 23V, and still did go down, and after few minutes the Motor did start running.
I did take it apart, because i would record it, but after that #3 did not go down again to less then 18V. It never works when someone's watching. At last i did see the Effect. I may blame it on #2 too, because it was weak in charge and i think it did not have enough Current in it anymore to push through both Batteries.


Edit.
In doubt, when someone dont have a DC Motor by the Hand, take your cordless Drill, take the Accu out and connect 2 Wires to the Connectors inside.

[ewizard]

Just some ideas on this as I had tried this about a year ago. It was a few quick and dirty tests. At times it seemed to be working using 3 SLA's through a 12 volt auto wiper motor. But all 3 batteries were marginal pulls I had on hand. Two were better than the third. I was getting quite a lot of run time on the motor and some charging on the third battery. However at one point I decided to add a Bedini style SSG into the mix between 2 of the batteries. This did help out a lot and I felt it was close to being a self sustaining circuit. But at that time I was running it with a low power transistor not made for big 12 volt batteries. I've since changed it out to a higher power transistor for another project but as yet have not had the time to go back to trying it in this 3 battery circuit. I think sometimes if we can combine two 'almost' OU circuits or two different concepts that both have merit we might push things into the 'success' zone I don't want to confuse things Turion is doing here but it's just an idea if you happen to already have a Bedini SSG laying around.

[Turion]

I don't want to discourage people from trying ANYTHING, but I would advise you to get a system put together that works FIRST, and then see what you can do to improve it. If it doesn't work in the first place, you aren't making it any "better" by adding something else to it, you're making something new. Not that making something new is wrong. But what I have found is that people try a couple different batteries on this setup and it doesn't work, so they immediately start changing things. And then they get discouraged because it didn't work and they quit. Try 50 different batteries in the third position like I have done over the years, always trying to find one that works a little better, and THEN change something or add something.

If you had seen the power produced by my original setup, you wouldn't be trying to build ANYTHING else. Believe me.
Three lead acid batteries
The one in the third position won't hold or take a charge and is as dead as you can get it.
One permanent magnet DC 12 volt motor.
The batteries connected by battery cables, not small wires.
Here are my original lab notes if you want to read them.
David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device

[mbrownn]

Your third battery seems critical, maybe it would be an idea to try and define it.

Things like voltage, how much does it hold? acid SG? etc etc. I am sure this could help

[ewizard]

Thanks for pointing those out. I was aware of your thread on OU but had not been through to that page. I wonder what property it is of a particular dead battery that is helping create this special condition. If we can answer that I would then ask if there is a way to duplicate those characteristics with other components so that we could keep the 'special' dead battery characteristics all the time. Just thinking out loud ... a dead battery would have a particular resistance, capacitance, impedance .... inductance? what else? Maybe this has already been covered in your lab notes. Was their any other unusual conditions in the area of the batteries at that time OR the area the batteries were in? If I recall you said you moved from where the original experiment location. You know that saying in real estate? It's location, location, location... could that have something to do with this? I came across some special map a while back that I had never seen before. I have been trying to recall what type it was as it was not a magnetic field map but it was found that certain experiments would not work in many areas of the U.S. and only in a few areas did they work well. These experiments were what I would call quantum physics and may be related to ZPE, radiant energy or similar. The map was an actual government map but at the moment I can't recall what type it was. Memory sucks at my age sometimes. Rambling is another thing

[ewizard]

Your third battery seems critical, maybe it would be an idea to try and define it.

Things like voltage, how much does it hold? acid SG? etc etc. I am sure this could help

I guess we were on the same frequency as I was thinking about the same things and while I was writing my last message you were posting some of the same...

[mbrownn]

great minds think alike

[Neight]

Your third battery seems critical, maybe it would be an idea to try and define it.

Things like voltage, how much does it hold? acid SG? etc etc. I am sure this could help

I think that is what we are working towards at this point. Perhaps I have missed something, but I thought what we are trying to do here is figure out what makes one battery work and another not work, so this is widely repeatable on a larger scale.
That is why we are testing so many bad batteries, trying to find ones that work, then figure out why it works, then trying to determine how to make the system work without having to constantly find new bad batteries to use in the third positions.

to me, the ultimate goal here is to find a load/storage (bad battery stand in) that will allow the batteries on the good side to run a motor and power a load, without using any energy out, or at least be able to cycle out a few sets of batteries, so some are running, while others are recovering.

It would be nice if we all had batteries with the same properties to test and mass a huge amount of data, but right now we all have what we have and will make it work

[FRC]

3 motors

I want to try a second 3 battery setup and have alternate runs between the two. The last run I did was the best so far. To me it seems that the bad battery that works best is one that will still take a charge but can not retain it for very long. I am also going to try a third motor and maybe even four, also try a different sized motor a long with the one I have been using. Maybe even a PC fan as one of them.

@ Turion, another possibility is running a second motor at the split negatives
at the the same time as the split positives is going. Or is this just a stupid
idea? Will try it to see what happens anyway.

George

Have not tried a second 3 battery setup yet. Did try three identical motors
this time. Adding extra motors is equivalent to placing a load on one motor,
output to load on bad battery 3 increases. This time the only load was a
12v halogen light. I was wrong before about RPM's, they decrease rather
than increase when motors are added. Although it seems that torque gets
better with extra motors, but I could be wrong. I also tried a different sized
motor and was amazed how fast it ran, though the two larger motors decreased in RPM's. This small motor was one I had attached a sort of a flywheel to with heavy (for its size) ceramic magnets on it hoping to make a type of Lockridge/Watson hybrid. Well I was amazed with the free spin time after disconnecting it. The original idea, a year ago, with this motor was to pulse it and have the free spin time continue while the magnets passed coils. Which brings up the notion of pulsing the motor with the basic three battery
setup . Even though things work okay in its present form, pulsing the motor
might serve to extend the runs longer.

Splitting both positive and negative
----------------------------------
This did not work out as well as hoped. This arrangement only slowed down the motors. But applying load to one motor sped up the RPM's on the other motor. Power to the load on the battery also decreased, and it appeared that the good batteries were now being drained. So ended this experiment quickly.

Prior to all these runs, which only lasted about 20 minutes altogether, I had
topped up the batteries with a regular 2 amp charger and had depleted the
bad battery to about 1 volt. After a 2 hour rest battery number 1 was down
.17 of a volt, battery 2 was down .05 of a volt, and battery 3 had only increased to about 5 volts. I think the losses were due to the positive split/negative split combination.

George

[FRC]

3 motors

Did another run for about 45 minutes using 3 motors again. Using halogen light
for load on battery 3 and adding tail light bulb from time to time. When adding
tail light bulb intensity of halogen would decrease but motor RPM's would increase. Then tried the 3 motors in series instead of parallel. They all ran slower, since all this did was divide the current. Now it seems like I am making battery 3 worse. It only reads about half a volt now. Battery 1 and 2 are down a bit but are recovering. I did the readings right after shutting things down so will check again after a longer resting period.

George

[Turion]

From what I have experienced, everything works until the plates in the bad battery begin to absorb energy. Then the ability of the system to generate power slowly fades. The reason for this is the potential difference becomes less as the plates begin to absorb. So in order to get it work, we need a continued potential difference. Once that is lost the dipole is closed and you're out of luck. That's why with a totally sulfated battery you can get really long runs. Days long....WEEKS long, as I did the first time. The PERFECT battery is one with NO voltage and so much sulfation on the plates it won't absorb any charge at all. That is where we have the greatest potential difference. Now if we can think of a way to duplicate that, we have it. It's as simple as THAT.

What can we do to a standard battery to achieve this situation. How can we duplicate it without a battery. For instance, a cap gives us the potential difference, and a resister would keep it from charging. Maybe that combination would somehow work. But first, find yourself a DEAD battery with NO voltage in it that will not take a charge, and PROVE to yourself that it is ALL you need for this thing to work like magic. Go find a hundred dead batteries that have been thrown away and test them to get the ones with no voltage. Those are the ones you want to try. Somewhere, somebody will come up with that perfect battery, and then you will see what I am talking about. Until then, the lower the voltage of the bad battery you have, and the less it will take a charge, the better it will work. Maybe even batteries with bad cells. That reduces the voltage but I don't know what it does to the potential difference.

If battery 3 never, ever charges, but you can hook a generator to the motor as a load, isn't THAT good enough? If you can't put much of a load on the motor, but you are able to extract all kinds of energy from battery three, isn't THAT good enough? Well, you should be able to do BOTH if you match the two loads and you have that dead battery in the third position. You are pulling current generated from the motor out of wires connected to battery 3 before it ever gets a chance to charge, so you get 12 volt generated current that you can use to run the inverter forever. You get both of these things until battery three starts to accept a charge, and then everything begins to dwindle.

I also think we are getting the CEMF of the motors sent right back down the wires to charge the primary batteries because of the way we split the positives (or negatives). But that's ANOTHER story.

Dave

[FRC]

Correction

Bad battery 3 was still hooked up to halogen light when checked. Now that it is
disconnected voltage is rising.

George

[plengo]

Amazing system. I read last night about this system and quickly I went to my lab to try out.

I have a few bad SLA batteries to test with. My first setup worked out of the box just like you Turion said and one of the videos shows.

The battery 3 MUST BE DEAD and unable to carry a charge. You are so right. It seams that that battery works as a infinite sink to Battery 1 and 2 and keeps generating energy but since it is unable to hold charge one can use that power into a load.

My setup work best when I put a load on battery 3 (bad one) while the whole thing is running. Unfortunately as you run battery 3 starts to get better and things start to suck energy from B1 and B2. One must keep a large load on B3 to keep it from charging.

Below is my understanding of the system.

Fausto.

[Turion]

plengo,
That's the setup. You got it right the first time. I'm glad you are seeing some success. Just don't make your runs too long, and batteries one and two will always recover. I don't know how many runs you can make on the system before you have problems with batteries one and two recovering, but I know I have pulled out way more energy from my setup than batteries one and two could possibly hold. My kilowatt meter tells me that, so it's a FACT, not a "belief." And they are still holding their voltage. And it is NOT a surface charge on batteries one and two. I have tested that also..voltage under load. AND I have had the energy produced by my motor hooked up to my energizer for free. So am I producing more energy than the system takes to run? Absolutely, positively, unquestionably, Yes. I need a kilowatt meter that doesn't reset, so I don't have to watch everything so closely, because the minute I shut down, you lose the present run reading. So I always have to write down the reading before I shut it off, and then add it to my total output. But at least it works.

The issue is not what I can do with this system, but what YOU can do. Can you repeat these results? Can YOU find a really good "bad battery" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) and make short runs until your kilowatt meter tells you that you have far exceeded the power that two batteries could possibly produce. Then can you make longer and longer runs until you learn to watch the good batteries and kill the power when you see them begin to go down, so you can let them recover. And then how do we make it better.

plengo,

Possibly your solution is the simplest...keep a huge load on battery three, so there is no chance it will charge. I have wanted to try different diodes and resisters, but am trying to get things welded up for my energizer and it's taking all my time away from more experimenting on my setup. Tell your friends and neighbors and let's get more and more people involved in making a working system out of this. The solution is here somewhere. We just have to find it.
Dave