Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Thanks for Encouragement

Hi Chet,

Thanks very much for the encouragement. It's very much appreciated. You've kept me hanging in there.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Hi
S

Nice first test !!
Very cool
As always you make it easier for the rest of us by sharing ,and all of us in the long run!

Catcha later
Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

Measuring Chart

Yes, you are right. I'm not used to using anything like that so it's hard to switch gears but I must.

This project is finally getting fun. I don't know what I was expecting but it's fun now. I guess I was afraid I wouldn't be able to replicate the device with any success but now that I have I feel very good. This device is very easy as you once said Chet. It's so easy it doesn't seem possible at all. All those things I was expecting to go wrong didn't happen either. There must be a lot of margin for error. My device may not be that efficient but it works very well. It has a scary little hum that keeps you on your toes. It sounds like raw power that could kill you in an instant.

Hi
S
Time for the measuring Chart
Slap the caliper on it Is the ring shrinking ? The Can?

I just got to my Customers gonna be a long night ,I picked up the Pipe spreader

Missed UPS here so I'll send it tomorrow ,This will make things so much easier
We can take one size tin can and stretch several different dimensions to have in stock
Well one thing is for certain Before we test ...measure everything
After the test ....same thing.
Data Data and more Data.........

Regarding the ring touching ..it may not have been touching with power on
? I really feel there could be some kind of pressure developed between the ring and the can
Power can do funny things ,if it was arcing you would have seen it

Nice first test !!
Very cool
As always you make it easier for the rest of us by sharing ,and all of us in the long run!

Catcha later
Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

super glue & arcing

Well, the super glue held the ring arm in the slot of the threaded rod ring support. It held so well that I can't get it out of there. I was going to take it out this evening and drill and tap the threaded rod for a brass retaining screw to hold in my future rings. I really didn't want to damage this ring because it worked so well.

There was no arcing even though the ring was touching the can on one side when I took my assembly apart for more photos following my initial testing.

I'm going to test a 1.725mm ring next. I guess I need to make another threaded rod ring holding fixture, because this super glue doesn't appear to want to give up and I don't want to mess up that ring. The rings are kind of a pain to make so you don't want to screw them up if you don't have to.

[RAMSET]

I hope its not electrolysis

Hi
S
Time for the measuring Chart
Slap the caliper on it Is the ring shrinking ? The Can?

I just got to my Customers gonna be a long night ,I picked up the Pipe spreader

Missed UPS here so I'll send it tomorrow ,This will make things so much easier
We can take one size tin can and stretch several different dimensions to have in stock
Well one thing is for certain Before we test ...measure everything
After the test ....same thing.
Data Data and more Data.........

Regarding the ring touching ..it may not have been touching with power on
? I really feel there could be some kind of pressure developed between the ring and the can
Power can do funny things ,if it was arcing you would have seen it

Nice first test !!
Very cool
As always you make it easier for the rest of us by sharing ,and all of us in the long run!

Catcha later
Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

Update

Update

After running the boiler for twenty minutes with no ill effects to the boiler and/or electrical wiring, I shut the device off. Upon inspecting the ring I noticed something very peculiar. The ring which initially had been very close to the can gap wise, now had quite a bit of slack in it. Also, the ring was touching the can on one side now and that hadn't been the case when I started the experiment. Initially I had everything lined up properly. I don't know how the ring extended itself and/or why the breaker wasn't thrown since the can and ring were in fact touching. Any ideas??

Anyway, I thought it was interesting.

[Slovenia]

Heat Report

Again, this isn't that scientific yet because I am not using the right components yet. Mr. "C" called for 200mm can and I'm using 150mm can. Mr. "C" also called for 1.725mm gap and I used 2.1mm European gap. Also, I haven't tuned the can to 60 hz yet. Even though this is just a fast and loose experiment, the water heated up quite fast. I don't know exactly how much water I'm using in my boiler, but I think it's approximately 1.5 gallons. That said, here are the results:

Within 15 seconds: 121 degrees F

1 minute: 143 degrees F, 154 degrees F, 161.6 degrees F

2 minutes 163 degrees F

3 minutes 170 degrees F

4 minutes 178 degrees F


I don't know if these results are good or bad. I'm using main voltage of 115 volts in USA.

I was using a cheap digital watch without the capability for seconds, so all I had was just the minutes as they clicked by. So, that's why I didn't give a second by second reading.

I need to get some better equipment.

Also, I don't know how many amps I was drawing, but the device was humming pretty good right next to it.

Four minutes in to my test.

[Slovenia]

Test Drive Results

Well, I just test drove the sonic boiler and it's something else and that's for sure. Let me say to start with that my can is not tuned to 60 hz yet and my gap is the European 2.1mm gap and not the 1.725mm gap for USA. I'm in USA, so I'm not using the right specs yet but still getting positive results. The water started boiling fairly fast and all the contaminants in the water rose to the top immediately. So, if nothing else this is a good water cleaner device. The crap that came out of the water was terrible looking. Stuff you wouldn't want to drink. I'm posting some preliminary pictures below of my test drive. I have a video camera I'll use later but it's not digital, so I'll have to figure out how to post that video to here later.

Preliminary Pics

[Slovenia]

Pics

Hi Chet,

I'll send you the pics I have posted and then the other goods ones when I have them.

The expander is a great idea. Good thinking!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

One of my customers just called I have to go down to NY

I'll check in later
Chet
PS
I believe the super glue is going to go By By? [heat]
But that remains to be seen??

I might stop at Harbor frieght on the way ,,they have a "tail pipe expander" that will probably be worth its weight in gold
[Will Stretch the ring to size [A LOT]
I'll send it to you.
Chet

[RAMSET]

No Luck with images [I'm a putz with these things]

One of my customers just called I have to go down to NY

I'll check in later
Chet
PS
I believe the super glue is going to go By By? [heat]
But that remains to be seen??

I might stop at Harbor frieght on the way ,,they have a "tail pipe expander" that will probably be worth its weight in gold
[Will Stretch the ring to size [A LOT]
I'll send it to you.
Chet

[Slovenia]

Center Your Ring Anchor

Haste makes waste. I didn't center my ring anchor hole in the side of my experimental boiler. I sighted by eye and got it about 1/4" off center on the side of my vertical acrylic cylinder. I should have measured. Because of this misaligned hole I had a heck of a time adjusting my gap. I had to bend the ring at it's anchoring tab and that's tricky. If I'd drilled the hole at the right point, everything would have lined up nicely.

So, a word to the wise!!

[Slovenia]

.2mm Ring Thickness Scenario

Well, I figured out how to make a .2mm ring after all. You just laminate two .1mm strips together. When I folded them and bent a radius on them I was warping the unsecured bottom side of the ring material. It was an ever so slight warp but it was enough to make my thickness .5mm which was not good.

Anyway, you cut your .1mm X 5mm strips out and then glue them together with super glue with the shiny side outside. You glue the strip and then secure the glued strips together with a vice while they are drying. You'll have to divide your strip into three separate sections and glue from one end to the other. Once you've glued up the strips, you put a radius on them with a fence post as I described earlier on this thread. It works very well.

Go sparingly with the super glue. You just want it to bond the two surfaces together. Anyway, this method works!!

Glue the strip in three separate operations working from the left to the right. and only gluing the are you can immediately clamp together with your vice. You will need a vice if you don't have one.

[Slovenia]

Fire Today

I plan to fire today. I was going to take the boiler apart and secure the ring better and also glue my two piece can together at it's joint, but it was such a hassle adjusting my gap I'm just going to fire it the way it is and hope for the best. I did secure my ring with some super glue as a temporary measure. If there's any heat involved the super glue won't work to well at the ring support connection.

We got to see if we're on the right track or not.

Are you having any luck copying the pics Chet?

I hope you fire it up today !!
THX
Chet

[Slovenia]

How To Copy Images

1.) Left click on the image to make it full size.
2.) Right click on the image and your computer will give you the option to save the image to your computer.
3.) Click on that option, save the image, and the image is saved to your computer.

@S
How do I copy your images??

I hope you fire it up today !!
THX
Chet
PS
I just had a happy little thought!! {like Mr. Rogers}
Wouldn't it be nice if whatever forces are at work here "Center" the ring themselves Because its "ROUND".

Perhaps a "Standing Wave"??

??

[RAMSET]

Spider Manifold

Core
I don't believe it is a good idea to dampen the vibrations with shims at this point?


From your test we see that this will definately "do something"
Its the reason for the rest of the device that must be figured, if we just placed a ring within a ring [no can]
it would also do something.


I am hoping that the reason for such a hair thin can, a PDF and such critical tolerances has Merit?

@The spider manifold I mentioned before
if you look from the Top,You would run string in four places from 12:00
3:00 6:00 9:00 to the outer canister?
Pull the ring where ever it needs it?? [checking with a guage]

Perhaps a light wire would be good [I just worry about trace interference]
Then we could just "Kink" the wire to adjust?

Figuring a way to do this will most likely take some thought,Perhaps when Slovenia sends his pics to Mr.C he will make suggestions??


---------
@S
How do I copy your images??

I hope you fire it up today !!
THX
Chet
PS
I just had a happy little thought!! {like Mr. Rogers}
Wouldn't it be nice if whatever forces are at work here "Center" the ring themselves Because its "ROUND".

Perhaps a "Standing Wave"??

??

[Slovenia]

Thanks For Sharing

Very nice ideas. Thanks for sharing them. Yes, the 1.725mm gap is going to allow the ring to touch the can if no alternate arrangements are made.

That gap is tight, I noticed on mine that amps ran higher with a smaller gap. I also noticed visually that higher amps did not translate into more steam.

In your case I would go to your local Home Depot and purchase some nylon washers. From here you can file the washers down to 1.725mm. Then carefully cut the nylon washer into small segments. With the washers cut into small segments divide the ring into quadrants. Using a good adhesive attach them on to the inside of the ring. Let them dry. Note: Nylon washers are EZ to cut and file. Cut them small enough to not interfere with the 'curve' of the ring. As an example make the width of the nylon washer 2mm and the length the width of the ring.

Also build a safety whip like I did. Place the fuse on the 'Hot' leg. Verify the hot leg on the outlet. These fuses have a time delay like a breaker in a panel box, so they can take a small surge. As you saw I was using 10 amp fuses.

In my case I have dedicated outlets going to my workbench so there was no chance of overloading the wire back to the panel. Try to use a dedicated outlet or shut appliances to prevent overload.

Everything I mentioned is general safety, keep in mind there are people who run miles of Christmas lights on one 15 amp breaker, that also does there refrigerator, with 18 gauge cord.

Just an idea.

-Core