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Muller generator replication by Romerouk

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  • #1951
    Originally posted by Dave45 View Post
    Are you suggesting using a transformer between your generator coil and your load? If so, yep, a transformer is exactly what we need in our generator coil circuits, but nothing more I think. Sydney was correct here, but I didn't know enough to realize the importance of what he said. I will share more of the why, and the how as soon as I can get to it.

    Originally posted by Sydney View Post
    Hello from Australia. My understanding of the delayed lenz effect is that the output current is out of phase with the the magnetic flux that created it therefore the lenz law flux can be timed to coincide with the departure of the magnate and 'push' it away, hence an rpm increase.

    Surely the same effect can be obtained by inserting a suitable inductor in series with the load? The current through the inductor coil gets delayed by the inductance. Seeing as it is in series with the generator coil, the current drawn from the generator coil is also phase delayed behind the generating flux.
    Last edited by Shadesz; 09-28-2011, 05:41 PM.
    Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

    Comment

    • #1952
      Originally posted by toranarod View Post
      My motor today

      test so far.

      No coils drive motor consumption. 23.54 volts 4810 mill Amps. 2802 RPM

      with coils fitted no load 23.25 volts 4715 mill Amps. 2792 RPM

      all coils fitted 4 coils shorted 23.41 volts 4720 mill Amps. 2820 RPM
      Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

      Comment

      • #1953
        Originally posted by toranarod View Post
        some interesting work you are doing here.
        I am still trying to get a picture of what you see in your concept.
        I will read it over and study your diagram. I get what you want to happen but I am not sure about it in practice.
        can you present an electrical schematic. I read need a circuit diagram

        good job.. You really are working very hard very keep up the good work.
        I will be following your idea with great interest
        Thanks

        If you have plenty of work don't study the diagram yet. I explain it very clearly in my slides, with mathematical representation (no calculus).

        However, if you need a brake from building and wanna mind puzzle feel free to figure it out... Just don't think that you have to figure it out from the limited information I have shared so far. I am on slide ten of probably 15.
        Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

        Comment

        • #1954
          Hey just so everyone can see it, I analyzed Rod's numbers. Consider the control the measurements with no coils present. If we compare the second two data sets to that we find that we get...

          -3.18% in power consumption and -0.36% in RPM with all coils present and open
          -2.41% in power consumption and +0.64% in RPM with all coils present and 4 shorted

          Man I hope that is enough... I guess it all depends on how much much load we can pull off the coils...
          Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

          Comment

          • #1955
            Originally posted by Shadesz View Post
            Hey just so everyone can see it, I analyzed Rod's numbers. Consider the control the measurements with no coils present. If we compare the second two data sets to that we find that we get...

            -3.18% in power consumption and -0.36% in RPM with all coils present and open
            -2.41% in power consumption and +0.64% in RPM with all coils present and 4 shorted

            Man I hope that is enough... I guess it all depends on how much much load we can pull off the coils...
            That is a GREAT sign. I suspect that this RPM increase is due to the Adams style rotor that he has used! I am going to make my new generator like that.

            This finally shows that the coils do add energy to the system for free.
            Humility, an important property for a COP>1 system.
            http://blog.hexaheart.org

            Comment

            • #1956
              Explaining the voltage drop on a DC inductor without calculus is a pain!

              Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

              Comment

              • #1957
                I needed a brake, so I ran some more numbers...

                Originally posted by Shadesz View Post
                Hey just so everyone can see it, I analyzed Rod's numbers. Consider the control the measurements with no coils present. If we compare the second two data sets to that we find that we get...

                -3.18% in power consumption and -0.36% in RPM with all coils present and open
                -2.41% in power consumption and +0.64% in RPM with all coils present and 4 shorted

                Man I hope that is enough... I guess it all depends on how much much load we can pull off the coils...
                To take it a step farther, if you assume the ratio of RPM to Power Consumption is linear you can combine the % change in power to the % change in RPM, to get a more simple % change in power that is easier to understand...

                all coils open = 3.18% decrease in power and .36% decrease in RPM = 2.82% less power consumption
                4 coils shorted = 2.41% decrease in power consumption and .64% increase in RPM = 3.05% less power consumption

                Rod...
                Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

                Comment

                • #1958
                  What I find interesting is the decrease in power consumption just from the open coils alone (compared to no coils). I bet the angled pull theory would increase this unknown effect even more.
                  Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

                  Comment

                  • #1959
                    Ok, my brake is almost over, but I figured I would throw this idea out there before I got back to work.

                    I don't like adding more work to an already busy builder but maybe someone can try this? I took an old picture of Rod's Adam's style generator and drew in how we could try the angled pull on it.

                    The red lines represent magnetic metal of some sort. Even just some scrap sheets or bolts you have laying around. Just make sure the core face sticks out past the metal so when the magnet gets to the core it will attract to it instead of the puller. You may need to consider eddy currents, but right now I don't think you will need to worry about it.

                    Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

                    Comment

                    • #1960
                      A must see

                      In case you havent seen it:
                      Energetic Forum
                      http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/9411-neat-little-motor-generator.html

                      Comment

                      • #1961
                        Originally posted by MonsieurM View Post
                        so 3 coils with one neutral...6 3 9



                        now about the long coils...think of them as vortex funnels and how the length of a funnel affects the vortex...

                        see the second picture, doesn't it remind you of Tesla's Set up

                        just an observation but When you build a Tesla Coil, depending on the overall size it will develop different level of energy ( a 1 foot Tesla coil wouldn't produce the same amount of power as a 10 feet Tesla Coil )....
                        “Signs and symbols rule the world, not words nor laws.” -Confucius.

                        Comment

                        • #1962
                          Still working... explaining this is harder then I thought it was going to be. Ironically, and somewhat hopefully, you guys will think "duh that's not that complicated" when you read it.

                          I was thinking though, about the new video, and others... maybe that isn't a good way to release an OU device.

                          What I mean is, perhaps the best way to release an open source free energy device to the world, is to let the world actually watch you discover it.

                          That way, they can see the work, even participate. They can see the hang ups, the solutions, and the breakthroughs you had as you have them. Then, when you finally get there and get that working unit, they will be more accepting and understanding, less demanding.

                          They experienced it with you! And in that way, are themselves part of the world changing event, and then become proponents and help spread it rather than doubtful critics.

                          Most of your initial shock and awe will be diverted too, as most people will know what you have been doing, and already know most of what they need to do it themselves. Plus the huge databank of what they need to do will already be published and they can get started right away. Of course you would be good to clean it up and clearly group the important information, but as you do this, you will not have the full blunt of pressures associated with such a discovery.

                          Anyways, like I said...
                          Perhaps the best way to release an open source free energy device to the world, is to let the world actually watch you discover it.

                          That is exactly what you are doing here in this thread guys. We will get there. Thank you for being a good enough team to convert me from a free energy critic into a participant. Lets keep going! You guys are great.



                          YAY! I figured it out! I finally got past the road block I have been on all day. Another couple hours and I can post this, get it out of my head, and move on to the good stuff!
                          Last edited by Shadesz; 09-29-2011, 02:43 AM.
                          Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

                          Comment

                          • #1963
                            Originally posted by Shadesz View Post
                            Ok, my brake is almost over, but I figured I would throw this idea out there before I got back to work.

                            I don't like adding more work to an already busy builder but maybe someone can try this? I took an old picture of Rod's Adam's style generator and drew in how we could try the angled pull on it.

                            The red lines represent magnetic metal of some sort. Even just some scrap sheets or bolts you have laying around. Just make sure the core face sticks out past the metal so when the magnet gets to the core it will attract to it instead of the puller. You may need to consider eddy currents, but right now I don't think you will need to worry about it.


                            Hello Shadesz

                            Nice photo you found of some old work of mine.
                            Just about that design? When I calculated to the best of my understanding of what we have learned so far. The RPM needed to begin passing Lenz drag was up above 5000 RPM. The magnets in that motor where 30 mm x 25 mm round disc neos 6000 Gauss.
                            I was keen to use them because of there flux and output power but when I tried to spin them up to that speed they would not stay fixed to the rotor. Nothing I could manufacture would hold them in place. Save them for the ultimate project in the future.
                            So I decide to work with a more practical design. Lower RPM and a better ratio of magnet to core.
                            To my benefit this provided better results with out the very dangerous RPM.
                            High RPM is something we are going to need to deal with. Motor design will control
                            the RPM the generator will function at.

                            this is what it looks like now.

                            My motors spin the other direction




                            Last edited by toranarod; 09-29-2011, 05:00 AM.

                            Comment

                            • #1964
                              Yeah I am sorry Rod, I grabbed that picture because it was the first one I could find with a more aerial view so I could easily draw up my suggestion. If you ever hit a road block and are looking for something else to try, I would hope you would try it out on your beautifully updated motor.

                              @all,

                              On a side note: I mean no offense at all, but I think OverUnityGuide's time constant calculation idea to beat lenz is not accurate. In fact, I think he isn't even near the mark on that one. It is clear to me that the entire lenz delay based on the time constant idea doesn't even apply in a generator coil without a separate inductor in series (away from the rotor's influence). Plus, if you listen to the video particularly at 8:10, you will see he has no idea what that graph even represents, and how/when this "charge up" of back emf occurs. Seriously, that thinking is way off. In fact his wording shows he thinks the exact opposite of what that chart says about back emf timing.
                              Last edited by Shadesz; 09-29-2011, 06:25 AM.
                              Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

                              Comment

                              • #1965
                                Hey, I think a coil like this one (notice the core face) would get an Adam's Effect on a Muller Motor

                                Erse Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor
                                Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else's ~BW~ It's kind of fun to do the impossible ~WD~ From now on, I'll connect the dots my own way ~BW~ If I shall be like him, who shall be like me? ~LR~ Had I not created my whole world, I would certainly have died in other people’s ~AN~

                                Comment

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