Joule Ringer!

[ehsanco1062]

Hi folks, Hi totoalas, thanks for the information and I hope you get good results.
I am running some tests on mine, though as said, I'm only using two transistors, 3 strands per transistor.
Right now, I'm using the main diode going to all bases, then 4-1kom 1 watt resistors in series/parallel for 1kohm total, then these resistors are in parallel with two 5.6uf ac capacitors in parallel for 11.2uf total.
And I am using 300 ohm base resistors.
I am not using any diodes from base to collector yet, or from emitter to collector, just the neons.
Also I am not using the 10kohm and 20kohm resistors on first transistor stage.
Though I may implement these other components to see if they benefit the charging or not.
Though so far, the charging is very impressive and it is only using 280 milliamps input with the 13.8 volt power supply.
When I switch on the power, the coil makes a kick or thumping sound as if it's really getting a nice trigger pulse from the capacitors and such and transistors are cool to the touch.
peace love light
tyson

[kcarring]

Thanks Kyle
Ill probably settle for the china made inverter 500 w for 400 HKD$
for now until we get rid of the heat problem ......

Hi Sky,
I ll see tomorrow if i can test with 1.5 K 5 w replacement for the 4.7 K
in my flip flop

totoalas

One thing: those 2N3055's are very large. try 2n2222's and the smallest mosfets you can find. I believe Lidmotor used an IRF710, which is high voltage around 3 or 400 I believe and low amps. Both your setup and mine undoubtedly are driving the FETs too hard, and the FETs (at least mine) are opening up to much current flow. FETs are not identical to NPN in operation.

quote:

"Unlike bipolar transistors that are basically current-driven devices, MOSFETs are voltage-controlled power devices. If no positive voltage is applied between gate and source the MOSFET is always non-conducting. If we apply a positive voltage UGS to the gate we'll set up an electrostatic field between it and the rest of the transistor. The positive gate voltage will push away the 'holes' inside the p-type substrate and attracts the moveable electrons in the n-type regions under the source and drain electrodes. This produces a layer just under the gate's insulator through which electrons can get into and move along from source to drain. The positive gate voltage therefore 'creates' a channel in the top layer of material between oxide and p-Si. Increasing the value of the positive gate voltage pushes the p-type holes further away and enlarges the thickness of the created channel. As a result we find that the size of the channel we've made increases with the size of the gate voltage and enhances or increases the amount of current which can go from source to drain- this is why this kind of transistor is called an enhancement mode device."

What is a MOSFET, what does it look like, and how does it work? | techPowerUp

For these reasons, and more, the circuit is very sensitive in its crude (simple I mean) setup, so all of your components are going to potentially change everything.

My setup is just like a hammer and a fist... I need to use small FETs and I think I will switch to 6V battery and see how that goes.

For powering anything of value (beyond an LED light bulb), I agree... use a commercial inverter. I like Wagan Pure Sine Wave, for value vs. quality. They are not the best, but they work well, power anything, and are reasonably priced.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi totoalas, thanks for the information and I hope you get good results.
I am running some tests on mine, though as said, I'm only using two transistors, 3 strands per transistor.
Right now, I'm using the main diode going to all bases, then 4-1kom 1 watt resistors in series/parallel for 1kohm total, then these resistors are in parallel with two 5.6uf ac capacitors in parallel for 11.2uf total.
And I am using 300 ohm base resistors.
I am not using any diodes from base to collector yet, or from emitter to collector, just the neons.
Also I am not using the 10kohm and 20kohm resistors on first transistor stage.
Though I may implement these other components to see if they benefit the charging or not.
Though so far, the charging is very impressive and it is only using 280 milliamps input with the 13.8 volt power supply.
When I switch on the power, the coil makes a kick or thumping sound as if it's really getting a nice trigger pulse from the capacitors and such and transistors are cool to the touch.
peace love light
tyson

[totoalas]

JB Charger on a Toroid CRT Test results 201211

Hi folks, Hi totoalas, yes 1.5kohm, though it will vary with your setup.
I drew a cleaned up version of patricks oscillator setup, it should be accurate now.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

peace love light
tyson

Thanks Tyson

My charger has the following Data Results

Input power supply 16 V dc
Input mA 246 mA

Output Load 3 yrs old battery 45 AH initial charge 12.46
No caps installed yet on the input output
0 min 12. 46 v dc

30 min 12. 62 vdc

45 min 12.63 v dc

Current 246 mA

test still in progress


totoalas

Excerpt from peter linderman on JB design Battery Secrets
Hi Mario, et al,

Thank you all for a considered discussion on these topics. The most important thing to keep in mind, is that we have all been learning as we go.

The terminology of "Negative Energy" and "Positive Energy" was Tom Bearden's first attempt to inform us all that there was a QUALITY DIFFERENCE between these two manifestations of electricity that the meters were saying were identical. This was a gigantic philosophical leap for most people, at the time, but as usual, Tom was right! Whether "Negative Energy" and "Positive Energy" are the best ways to characterize these differences is not the point.

If we simply observe the "facts on the ground" we can come to a reasonable understanding. In the case of the various chargers that John has been testing over the last 10 years, let us say that "Negative Energy" is that quality of electricity that comes from AN INDUCTIVE COLLAPSE. It is produced by a MAGNETIC FIELD in natural free-fall after the current that produced it has been discontinued (open circuit).

Its effect on a battery is unique. In response to the impedance (resistance) in the cells, the inductive collapse will produce an ever rising voltage to overcome it. Once this potential hurdle has been overcome, then it will produce current to complete the discharge. The higher the impedance, the higher the voltage will rise and the less current will be supplied. The lower the impedance, the lower the voltage will rise and the higher the current will be supplied. The response is completely self regulating, and the battery always gets as much energy transferred into it as it can receive, in the shortest period of time.

Let us also say that "Positive Energy" is that quality of electricity that comes from A CAPACITOR DISCHARGE. It is produced by a DIELECTRIC FIELD in natural free-fall after the voltage that produced it has been discontinued (short circuit).

Its effect on the battery is quite different. In response to the impedance in the cells, the capacitive discharge will produce a TIME VARIANT discharge rate, since the voltage cannot rise above its initial value. It is characterized by a current surge with a dropping voltage component. By contrast, the inductive collapse is characterized by a voltage surge with a dropping current component.

What John found, after exhaustive testing, is that both of these methods charge the battery quite well. Personally, I believe, from what I have seen, that the Inductive Collapse methods work a little better for restoring lost capacity in a battery and Capacitor Discharge works a little better for maintaining a battery. In other words, there are trade-offs.

The other thing John found is that the Capacitor Discharge method of charging a battery was universally compatible with other commercial methods, while the Inductive Collapse method was not. Batteries were just fine if they were ALWAYS charged with Inductive Collapse, but their performance was extremely poor if the charging method varied between Inductive Collapse and other commercial methods.

This is the reason why John eventually changed all of his commercial designs over to these universally compatible methods......so people would not blame him for ruining their batteries when they didn't use his chargers.

I hope this discussion of these issues of helpful.

Peter

Yes, this is correct.
I also have bridge rectifier connected to the output and pos/neg from the bridge going to the battery. You can charge off the diodes too, as per diagram.
Collector-emitter diodes are not necessary.
You can try with 200 -300 Ohm base resistors and 100 -150 Ohm common one or you can use 50 Ohm and 12V5W bulb in series. Bulb should barely glow. When gets bright than you have too much current going into the bases. I use MJL21194 and adjust resistors to have about 200 - 250mA going to the base of each one.
Don't worry about pins. If it doesn't work than reverse trigger wires.
My battery has been formatted with radiant chargers and they'll charge faster then regular ones. They will also climb up to 16 - 20V. New battery will not do that right away.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi totoalas, yes 1.5kohm, though it will vary with your setup.
I drew a cleaned up version of patricks oscillator setup, it should be accurate now.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

peace love light
tyson

[totoalas]

Thanks Kyle
Ill probably settle for the china made inverter 500 w for 400 HKD$
for now until we get rid of the heat problem ......

Hi Sky,
I ll see tomorrow if i can test with 1.5 K 5 w replacement for the 4.7 K
in my flip flop

totoalas

[kcarring]

12VDC -120VAC Mini Inverter Circuit for AC LED lamps 12.3V / 175mA (2.15 watts)

* I switched to a TIP42C, higher output -- but it seems to be a bit of a noisy circuit. Perhaps TIP31C would work well with this.

hI kYLE,

I am ahving heat problem with my flip flop 2n3055/ irf 830 680 0hm / 4. 7 k when used with 12 v dc supply ceklphone charger can light one led bulb maybe just wait for your design lol

One question on solar panel can a radiant energy from like slayer coil energize the solar panels ???? or how many incandescent lamp can simulate the sun rays to a 60w 3 a solar panel???

thanks

totoalas[/QUOTE]

There is no doubt it is a problem with this circuit and runaway current in my experience. I have tried many many combinations. The only way I can get "control of it" -- ends up having the lights flash, basically - that's the only way I can run it at 12v. For starters, maybe it should run at 6v, but I don't think that's gonna work either.

It gets back to my experiment with the PWM. Most modern inverters actually do you use a PWM, but not how I incorporated it. The way I did it was very unheard of, basically (to my knowledge) and any one with a great deal of electronic experience may laugh and explain exactly why the hell not to do it! Wouldn't surpise me. But, then again, it did actually work LOL.

Lidmotor used a rheostat, and I tried that with about a hundred different FET & NPN resistor combinations. Basically in my experience it is like opening the floodgates on those FETs, and you had better have a load ready. Note in the French video the big heatsinks. It was kind of scary how that stereo shutdown too, if u ask me. Magnetman seems to have incorporated a LM317 voltage regulator, but in my case that got screaming hot, as well. I will, one more time try supplying the FETS with a PWM, all built on the board for the hell of it. I dunno, to me it is a very unfinished and crude circuit suited to running a heater, or light bulb, but what do i know.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I switched over my oscillator setup from bedini style to joule ringer style using the tweaks that minoly is using, except for the diode, though I will try that also.
Using a 5.6uf-160vac/250dc capacitor from mbquart audio crossover, i have two of them, though using one now across what would be the potentiometer resistors before the transistors. Seems to be working well and usually with the joule thief at 12 volt input, the transistors get hot, though this capacitor may be helping prevent that, it seems.
peace love light
tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi totoalas, If your talking about the french inverter flip flop circuit, then you will need to adjust the 4.7kohm resistors, if you lower the resistance the frequency will go higher and draw less current.
I used around 1.5kohm, though you'll have to test and see for your setup.
Also, if you exceed transistor peak amps, that can cause a kind of a heat avalanche and a heat sink prevents that.

After testing that Basic Stamp 2 microcontroller pulsing my 6 strand coil and then I went back to Bedini type radiant oscillator and it seems that the self oscillators are more efficient for whatever reason, compared to a digital square wave pulser.
I set up my radiant charger like bedinis, though with just a 22kohm resistor from collector to base and 1kohm base resistors and 2 transistors with the 3 strands per transistor, same as tests with stamp circuit.
With only 200 milliamps input at the same 13.8 volt power supply input, the flyback output across the 1 ohm resistor is only .246 volts or 60 milliwatts and charging seems about the same rate as the microcontroller at 270 milliamps input.
Though the major difference is that the output across the 1 ohm resistor was 2 volts at 270 milliamps input using the stamp circuit,
I think some of the reason the volt spikes are higher with the bedini oscillator, is that only one transistor per stage is used, whereas with the stamp circuit, I have to use a darlington type stage for the gain needed and this may slow down the collapsing field, giving higher current, lower voltage with the stamp circuit.
Your thoughts welcome on this long winded post, hehe.
peace love light
tyson

[totoalas]

12VDC -120VAC Mini Inverter Circuit for AC LED lamps 12.3V / 175mA (2.15 watts)

* I switched to a TIP42C, higher output -- but it seems to be a bit of a noisy circuit. Perhaps TIP31C would work well with this.[/QUOTE]

hI kYLE,

I am ahving heat problem with my flip flop 2n3055/ irf 830 680 0hm / 4. 7 k when used with 12 v dc supply ceklphone charger can light one led bulb maybe just wait for your design lol

One question on solar panel can a radiant energy from like slayer coil energize the solar panels ???? or how many incandescent lamp can simulate the sun rays to a 60w 3 a solar panel???

thanks

totoalas

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi totoalas, hmm, now I'm not sure to tune for highest voltage on resistor, as Bedini did say anything above 1 volt across resistor could damage the battery.
I checked the voltage across 1 ohm on my setup and at 400 microsecond pulse width, the voltage was 2.04 volts.
So I had to step back the pulse width to 60 microsecond pulses to get 1.02 volts across 1 ohm resistor and with the 13.8 volt power supply I'm using the amperage is 70 miiliamps at 60 microsecond pulses.
Whereas at 400 microsecond pulses, the amperage is 270 milliamps.
So, even though the charging is slower, I think I would stick with Bedinis suggestion, I think. Hope that helps.
peace love light
tyson

edit: I must say though, it sure is charging good with only 70 milliamps or 1 watt, not far off the charging that almost 4 watts was giving. Who knows, maybe such a short pulse can actually charge better, I'll have to play with even shorter pulse widths and see.

[totoalas]

Hi folks, nice work being done in here.
Hi totoalas, yes I have zapped many, many transistors playing with flyback pulsers and so it is why I am extra careful and that seems not enough when making tests sometimes.
Though I just had an idea for testing maximum output performance from a given tuned input settings.
Use the 1 ohm resistor test that Bedini speaks of and connect a 1 ohm resistor across the output of the radiant charger.
In between my Tesla Switche tests, I am still making tests radiantly charging my batteries and I am using the Basic Stamp 2 to pulse my 6 strand coil using 3 strands per transistor, so two transistors, due to frying the supply of transistors I had, hehe.

Anyway, I plan on incrementally adjusting the pulse width, higher or lower to the coil and then observe the dc voltage over the 1 ohm resistor and when maximum voltage across resistor is achieved, then that is the pulse width/frequency of highest performance for the setup.
Hope that make sense and helps.
peace love light
tyson

thanks
for the output measurement procedure
totoalas

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, nice work being done in here.
Hi totoalas, yes I have zapped many, many transistors playing with flyback pulsers and so it is why I am extra careful and that seems not enough when making tests sometimes.
Though I just had an idea for testing maximum output performance from a given tuned input settings.
Use the 1 ohm resistor test that Bedini speaks of and connect a 1 ohm resistor across the output of the radiant charger.
In between my Tesla Switche tests, I am still making tests radiantly charging my batteries and I am using the Basic Stamp 2 to pulse my 6 strand coil using 3 strands per transistor, so two transistors, due to frying the supply of transistors I had, hehe.

Anyway, I plan on incrementally adjusting the pulse width, higher or lower to the coil and then observe the dc voltage over the 1 ohm resistor and when maximum voltage across resistor is achieved, then that is the pulse width/frequency of highest performance for the setup.
Hope that make sense and helps.
peace love light
tyson

[kcarring]

@ kcarring
The power out of the transistors is set by power supply and the base resistor. The power going to transformer is set by capacitor since the larger it is the more charge it can transfer. The power going into transformer is set by transformer input inductance and turns ratio. When I use the 6 volt leads (YEL & BLK) the power draw goes up to 190 mA and the bulb gets extremely bright (too much for single bulb but good for parallel bulbs). This circuit is highly dependent on the transformer used. Try different transformers.

Thanks!

I have a larger 80V 15,000 Microfarad I'll try with the other stated things in mind as well, thanks again

[xee2]

@ kcarring
The power out of the transistors is set by power supply and the base resistor. The power going to transformer is set by capacitor since the larger it is the more charge it can transfer. The power going into transformer is set by transformer input inductance and turns ratio. When I use the 6 volt leads (YEL & BLK) the power draw goes up to 190 mA and the bulb gets extremely bright (too much for single bulb but good for parallel bulbs). This circuit is highly dependent on the transformer used. Try different transformers.