Captret - Perpetual Light with Dead Batteries

[Jbignes5]

Yes but...

Thats a good link but what I plan on doing is using foils layered to get the effect. Copper and zinc foils are relatively cheap and I should be able to get a good output better then all the rest. You could think of it like a lifepo setup. Thin cells with many layers of each component.

A clue was dropped by someone in one of the threads that was Russian and for some reason it hit me that this could be the battery of choice. Another alternative to copper could be carbon sheets. But that will be for another time to experiment with.

Let me be clear that there should be no other additive other then water. This is to maintain the condition of the plates so that we can get maximum life out of the battery. But I digress... A small cell would prove this and thats what I plan on doing.

[gravityblock]

I have done some more research and I think I have found a viable air type battery. I'll keep you updated once I start experimenting on it. Copper and zinc seem to be the best choice and just plain water. I'm gonna try foils first with cotton separators. We will see what happens....

Copper Zinc Tap Water Fuel Cell

GB

[Jbignes5]

Yes they are..

bubbles form anyways even if the plates are never connected. i don't see water being consumed, it seems it evaporating instead because i put plastic wrap over the top of one and water vapor started to appear.

The battery performs no matter if it is used or not. The bubbles will increase as it is being used. Water will always evaporate and we need Air to be exposed to the water to replace the oxygen that is released from use. It is a complex cycle we are trying to setup here.

I have done some more research and I think I have found a viable air type battery. I'll keep you updated once I start experimenting on it. Copper and zinc seem to be the best choice and just plain water. I'm gonna try foils first with cotton separators. We will see what happens....

[ibpointless2]

What do you think is in water? H2O is two parts hydrogen to one part oxygen. It is an air component that donates it's energy to the aluminum to create the voltage we are seeing. Thats why you are seeing bubbles. Thats what is left after consuming the energy of the air part of water.

bubbles form anyways even if the plates are never connected. i don't see water being consumed, it seems it evaporating instead because i put plastic wrap over the top of one and water vapor started to appear.

[Jbignes5]

So far the only thing that is being consumed in the water captret battery is the water, due to the it evaporating.

I really don't get why people are calling the water captret battery a aluminum air battery. Aluminum air battery goes like this

Aluminum -> water -> air

The water captret goes like this

Aluminum -> water -> Aluminum

If anything the water captret battery should be called a aluminum-water-battery and not a aluminum-air- battery. The reaction is happening in the water and not the air. Plus the aluminum is not getting oxide on it and if it was it would be loosing power over time like a normal battery, but it doesn't it actually gains power when given a load over time.

Am i the only one in awe that i'm getting voltage from two similar metals? I've searched everywhere on Google for this effect but all they say is that its impossible to have a water battery used similar metals. This voltage from similar metals is what is contributing to the mysterious self charge in capacitors and captrets. Do people really not care about free electricity from a battery (or capacitor) that doesn't consume anything and outputs more power over time when given a load or am i just crazy?

What do you think is in water? H2O is two parts hydrogen to one part oxygen. It is an air component that donates it's energy to the aluminum to create the voltage we are seeing. Thats why you are seeing bubbles. Thats what is left after consuming the energy of the air part of water.

[ibpointless2]

So far the only thing that is being consumed in the water captret battery is the water, due to the it evaporating.

I really don't get why people are calling the water captret battery a aluminum air battery. Aluminum air battery goes like this

Aluminum -> water -> air

The water captret goes like this

Aluminum -> water -> Aluminum

If anything the water captret battery should be called a aluminum-water-battery and not a aluminum-air- battery. The reaction is happening in the water and not the air. Plus the aluminum is not getting oxide on it and if it was it would be loosing power over time like a normal battery, but it doesn't it actually gains power when given a load over time.

Am i the only one in awe that i'm getting voltage from two similar metals? I've searched everywhere on Google for this effect but all they say is that its impossible to have a water battery used similar metals. This voltage from similar metals is what is contributing to the mysterious self charge in capacitors and captrets. Do people really not care about free electricity from a battery (or capacitor) that doesn't consume anything and outputs more power over time when given a load or am i just crazy?

[Jbignes5]

A few things I have discovered.

The reason you are only seeing a certain amount of voltage in your cell is that aluminum has a certain mass to potential.

Aluminum (Metal):
Atomic mass(gram): 26.9
Standard potential: 1.7v
Density, grams per cm(cubed(3)): 2.7
Melting point c: 659
Electrochemical equivalence: 2.98 (ah/gram)

Calcium (alkaline):
Atomic mass(gram): 40.1
Standard potential: 2.87v
Density, grams per cm(cubed(3)): 1.54
Melting point c: 851
Electrochemical equivalence: 1.34 (ah/gram)


Just to give a few statistics about aluminum and calcium which are both metals. Calcium having rather violent reactions to water though.

Here is a primer on aluminum air batteries:

http://www.ijee.dit.ie/articles/Vol18-3/Ijee1198.pdf

[ibpointless2]

[ibpointless2]

I was checking on one of the water captret batteries that i have shorted out for over a week now and notice somethings are different. The plates have not disappeared or been damage, quite the opposite the negative plate has expanded full of water. Quite a bit of water is missing too. I don't know if the water is evaporating or if the water is being consumed but ill test it by placing plastic wrap over the top of the cup. If water vapors start appearing on the plastic then i know its evaporating but if none do and the water level goes down then we are consuming the water.

And after been shorted out for over a week it still produces voltage, actual more than the new ones. New ones are around .150 volts and this shorted out one is around .260 volts.

[ibpointless2]

So next I tried stainless steel (I used kitchen utensils and pots and pans). I could get slightly higher currents (around 30 uA) but they would drain more quickly then aluminum.

The most interesting materials I had on hand were a carbon rod and carbon fibers. I got 100 uA initially and it drained more slowly than stainless steel, but quicker than aluminum. It wasn't much carbon fiber and the rod was only 1/2" diameter. My guess is that carbon based materials might offer some promise with the water captret...

Edit: And the open circuit voltage with carbon was ~150mV

I've used copper and brass before instead of aluminium. I keep with aluminium because it won't get destroyed by the water over time.

[skaght]

other materials...

So next I tried stainless steel (I used kitchen utensils and pots and pans). I could get slightly higher currents (around 30 uA) but they would drain more quickly then aluminum.

The most interesting materials I had on hand were a carbon rod and carbon fibers. I got 100 uA initially and it drained more slowly than stainless steel, but quicker than aluminum. It wasn't much carbon fiber and the rod was only 1/2" diameter. My guess is that carbon based materials might offer some promise with the water captret...

Edit: And the open circuit voltage with carbon was ~150mV

[skaght]

All right, I used a wooden salad bowl as a reservoir and tried a number of different types of aluminum. I've got aluminum screening, tubing, plate and foil. The best results for current was two aluminum plates that yielded 15 uA short circuit current for a short period of time (5-10 seconds) and then the current slowly decreased. After all my tests, I added baking soda to the two plate design and the current output decreased more quickly. The aluminum tubing and screen really sucked for producing any detectable current. The foil and one plate came in second best. The aluminum foil and plate design by far had the most surface area, but did not perform as well as two aluminum plates.

[ibpointless2]

My designs seem to yield similar voltages, but current is increased by more surface area. My largest design in a 16 oz glass jar gives around .2 volts and 10 uA short circuit current for short periods. The ice cube tray captret yields about the same voltage with 1 uA.

About three days ago i though bigger was better. I filled up my bath tub with water. I rolled out a 4 foot long piece of aluminium foil, I was think the bigger the plate the more voltage because i was going to use a small thick piece, the same ones i use with the smaller water captrets. The first problem i ran into was that aluminium floats especially big pieces. After fighting to get the big aluminium piece to sink i put the other plate in and read around .150 volts. Don't know why but it was as much as any other water captret cell. I don't know the amps of that cell after being disappointed i threw away the 4 foot plate.

Sometimes plate size and mass confuse me, it seems at times that they all just want to be under 200mV. Some times adding more water increases the voltage and other times it decreases it. Its almost like the cells have a mind of their own.

Also when i try to make smaller plate cells with kraft paper they don't seem to work. Its like they need to be in a liquid to work, i've tried everything and the current bulky design seems to work best.

Other than the thickness of the plates to determine polarity i'm baffled at what increases voltage. Each battery is different, and sometimes they bounce around. You would think a 4 foot long piece of aluminum with a really small thick piece would give great amount of voltage but it doesn't. I really don't know maybe i'm doing something wrong.

[skaght]

while voltage is important, I'd focus more on current...

My designs seem to yield similar voltages, but current is increased by more surface area. My largest design in a 16 oz glass jar gives around .2 volts and 10 uA short circuit current for short periods. The ice cube tray captret yields about the same voltage with 1 uA.

[Jbignes5]

The thing is people....

We need to start working on the surface area portion. Listen we already know there is a battery action here. No one is refuting it. Lets start getting down to real observations here. Lets make sure it is a surface area thing. We need to start looking at total surface area of each electrode or plate and it's relation to the voltage it provides.

Once we establish real numbers we can plan what we need to do to increase the output in the desired way.