Captret - Perpetual Light with Dead Batteries

[Jbignes5]

What I suspect is the real culprit.

I wonder, what if the captret was merely a aluminum battery? How can it produce voltage when it's similar metals? What if i add baking soda to the water captret and then short the cell out, but the aluminum never corrodes away? Most aluminum air batteries i see people making use salt water and not baking soda. Salt water doesn't work in a water captret because it looses it voltage. On aluminium batteries use a aluminium plate with a rag soaked in salt water and then some type of carbon like graphite. seen here alairbattery


Well I've added baking soda to the water captret. The voltage goes up to around .350 volts, much higher than the normal .150 volts. A lot of bubbles formed all over the inside of the cup and on both plates. In the link above that aluminium battery give power for about 10 minutes as the aluminium oxides. So to test this I've given the best load I know to give and that is a dead short. It's been well over 10 minutes and the plates still look like new and it still produces voltage even after being shorted out for as long as it has. Besides the many bubbles the water captret with baking soda added looks like all the others. I'm merely reporting what i'm seeing, and it seems the baking soda is helping instead of hurting.

The only other thing that this water captret looks like is the Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor, but with that it uses two dissimilar metals to make a current to give you a capacitor. They do point out that you can use both aluminium but only if you need to use it with AC current. Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor.
"Both electrodes can be aluminum if you want to make a capacitor capable of working with ac voltages"
Whats weird is that i'm getting DC voltage and using it as a battery instead of as a AC capacitor.

As you can see the Water captret with baking soda added is still fine even after being shorted. I used Arm and hammer pure baking soda.

[ATTACH]7344[/ATTACH]

The water captret is a genuine battery. Baking soda is the base or alkaline and the usual different metals are not present. What is present is a surface area difference. If you look at metals as being different in density when two types of materials are used then the surface area that is exposed to the medium (water) would be much different. We have proven that surface area is indeed a part of the equation when battery action is used. It is not the different materials but the surface area that has to be converted by the mass of the conductor and the internal conductivity as it relates to the external surface area of that conductor. If this is true then any conductor can be used in this experiment if they are both used for the plates. Meaning the only change is the surface area we present to the medium with likewise plate composition.

What we need to do now is further prove that it is a surface area connection. We can do this by carefully planning a certain sized plate for each electrode then recording the resulting electricity that flows. Also I believe that each plate should be mass weight balanced so that each plate or electrode weighs the same but the only difference is the surface area presented in the medium for each electrode.

[ibpointless2]

I wonder, what if the captret was merely a aluminum battery? How can it produce voltage when it's similar metals? What if i add baking soda to the water captret and then short the cell out, but the aluminum never corrodes away? Most aluminum air batteries i see people making use salt water and not baking soda. Salt water doesn't work in a water captret because it looses it voltage. On aluminium batteries use a aluminium plate with a rag soaked in salt water and then some type of carbon like graphite. seen here alairbattery


Well I've added baking soda to the water captret. The voltage goes up to around .350 volts, much higher than the normal .150 volts. A lot of bubbles formed all over the inside of the cup and on both plates. In the link above that aluminium battery give power for about 10 minutes as the aluminium oxides. So to test this I've given the best load I know to give and that is a dead short. It's been well over 10 minutes and the plates still look like new and it still produces voltage even after being shorted out for as long as it has. Besides the many bubbles the water captret with baking soda added looks like all the others. I'm merely reporting what i'm seeing, and it seems the baking soda is helping instead of hurting.

The only other thing that this water captret looks like is the Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor, but with that it uses two dissimilar metals to make a current to give you a capacitor. They do point out that you can use both aluminium but only if you need to use it with AC current. Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor.
"Both electrodes can be aluminum if you want to make a capacitor capable of working with ac voltages"
Whats weird is that i'm getting DC voltage and using it as a battery instead of as a AC capacitor.

As you can see the Water captret with baking soda added is still fine even after being shorted. I used Arm and hammer pure baking soda.

[Jbignes5]

I wasn't saying we should abandon the idea.

What I was trying to say is that is one explanation of the effect we were seeing and some of the reports that their aluminum was getting eaten. If you are not seeing the effect of the aluminum falling apart then there is a low content of chlorine in your water, which is a good thing. I was just looking for a possible explanation of the aluminum getting attacked.

As for the aluminum air battery effect that was only a clue as to where this voltage might be coming from. Since water contains oxygen it's a good clue to the effect we are seeing.

The link you provided has an extra \ at the end.

[ibpointless2]

Could somebody dip a captret into a glass of water (with baking soda and without baking soda), and see if the voltage decreases as the captret is further immersed into the water. We need to rule out the aluminum-air battery effect when an electrolytic capacitor is connected in the captret mode, because the outside of the aluminum can is exposed to air. Just a thought.

GB

I don't have baking soda and want be going to the store for awhile, but i can tell you when you add salt to the water captret it looses voltage and will die very quickly. Salt is suppose to make the water more conductive but the water captret looses 90% of its voltage and by the morning the salt is attached to the plates and it produces 2% of its original voltage. I've heard of Alumium air batteries can also use salt as a electroylte (not the best thing to use) but salt in a water captret is bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_battery\
"About 1.2 volts potential difference is created by these reactions, and is achievable in practice when potassium hydroxide is used as the electrolyte. Saltwater electrolyte achieves approximately 0.7 volts per cell."

I see the baking soda doing the same thing unless you push power through and then it will act like a diode and not a battery anymore.



If i get the chance i buy some baking soda.

[gravityblock]

Besides that lets look at this as well:

Aluminium battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could somebody dip a captret into a glass of water (with baking soda and without baking soda), and see if the voltage decreases as the captret is further immersed into the water. We need to rule out the aluminum-air battery effect when an electrolytic capacitor is connected in the captret mode, because the outside of the aluminum can is exposed to air. Just a thought.

GB

[ibpointless2]

The degrading of your electrodes is by chlorine in your water. Aluminum and chlorine is a no no... It makes the best known acid around. If anyone is gonna replicate this then I suggest you only used distilled water or at least water that has been left standing for a week.

Here is the information on how I came to this conclusion.

Aluminum chloride:

Aluminium chloride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pay attention to the reaction with water paragraph.

Chlorine:

"Purification and disinfection
Main article: chlorination
Chlorine is an important chemical for water purification (such as water treatment plants), in disinfectants, and in bleach. Chlorine in water is more than three times as effective as a disinfectant against Escherichia coli than an equivalent concentration of bromine, and is more than six times more effective than an equivalent concentration of iodine.[27]
Chlorine is usually used (in the form of hypochlorous acid) to kill bacteria and other microbes in drinking water supplies and public swimming pools. In most private swimming pools, chlorine itself is not used, but rather sodium hypochlorite, formed from chlorine and sodium hydroxide, or solid tablets of chlorinated isocyanurates. Even small water supplies are now routinely chlorinated.[4]
It is often impractical to store and use poisonous chlorine gas for water treatment, so alternative methods of adding chlorine are used. These include hypochlorite solutions, which gradually release chlorine into the water, and compounds like sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione (dihydrate or anhydrous), sometimes referred to as "dichlor", and trichloro-s-triazinetrione, sometimes referred to as "trichlor". These compounds are stable while solid and may be used in powdered, granular, or tablet form. When added in small amounts to pool water or industrial water systems, the chlorine atoms hydrolyze from the rest of the molecule forming hypochlorous acid (HOCl), which acts as a general biocide, killing germs, micro-organisms, algae, and so on."

So we have aluminum and then we add water and chlorine which is in the water. This might be the effect we are seeing and when the chlorine concentrations are higher the effect is stronger and eats the aluminum. BE VERY careful of this acid. The danger zones would be near the aluminum itself.

Besides that lets look at this as well:

Aluminium battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes i agree watch out for chlorine, and people use caution too when dealing with electronics.

I've been trying to replicate the degrading aluminium plates with a battery connected and so far nothing happening. I've got my water captret hooked up to a 1.6 volt alkaline AAA battery. The plates still look new and the water is clear. Just a few bubbles and thats it, but it does drain the AAA battery. I use city tap water. As long as you build like i tell you to i don't really see any problem. Heres how to build them...
YouTube - How to make a Water Captret Battery.MP4

[FRC]

John Bedini

I think John Bedini mentioned these aluminum batteries in one of the Energy
from the vacuum series. In the US, there was a network of stations, that
would replace these aluminum batteries, after they ran down, in electric vehicles used by the military or some other government department. Sometime in the last century, possibly in the 1940's.


FRC

[Jbignes5]

Actually I found the reason..

I ran the water captret overnight with the 1.3 volt NiMH. My load was a 60 ohm low voltage dc motor. The motor ran, albeit rather slowly. The water bubbled and after the overnight run, it became cloudy. The aluminum foil also began to disintegrate. I think for some reason, the water captret turns the two plates into a normal battery and they then begin to charge and degrade with use.

I would guess it's similar to lead acid batteries where you start with two identical lead plates and then apply a voltage across them to condition the battery. One plate becomes oxidized the other reduced as the lead acid battery is formed. The voltage difference in the captret appears to do the same thing to the aluminum as it creates a new battery with the aluminum foil. That would explain why with shorting and with continual use, the water captret effects become stronger. There could be another explanation, but that makes sense from what I'm seeing...

In my opinion, the most interesting thing about the water captret is where does the increased voltage come from. I'd like to look for other tri-plate capacitors (without water) that can replicate the effect.

The degrading of your electrodes is by chlorine in your water. Aluminum and chlorine is a no no... It makes the best known acid around. If anyone is gonna replicate this then I suggest you only used distilled water or at least water that has been left standing for a week.

Here is the information on how I came to this conclusion.

Aluminum chloride:

Aluminium chloride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pay attention to the reaction with water paragraph.

Chlorine:

"Purification and disinfection
Main article: chlorination
Chlorine is an important chemical for water purification (such as water treatment plants), in disinfectants, and in bleach. Chlorine in water is more than three times as effective as a disinfectant against Escherichia coli than an equivalent concentration of bromine, and is more than six times more effective than an equivalent concentration of iodine.[27]
Chlorine is usually used (in the form of hypochlorous acid) to kill bacteria and other microbes in drinking water supplies and public swimming pools. In most private swimming pools, chlorine itself is not used, but rather sodium hypochlorite, formed from chlorine and sodium hydroxide, or solid tablets of chlorinated isocyanurates. Even small water supplies are now routinely chlorinated.[4]
It is often impractical to store and use poisonous chlorine gas for water treatment, so alternative methods of adding chlorine are used. These include hypochlorite solutions, which gradually release chlorine into the water, and compounds like sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione (dihydrate or anhydrous), sometimes referred to as "dichlor", and trichloro-s-triazinetrione, sometimes referred to as "trichlor". These compounds are stable while solid and may be used in powdered, granular, or tablet form. When added in small amounts to pool water or industrial water systems, the chlorine atoms hydrolyze from the rest of the molecule forming hypochlorous acid (HOCl), which acts as a general biocide, killing germs, micro-organisms, algae, and so on."

So we have aluminum and then we add water and chlorine which is in the water. This might be the effect we are seeing and when the chlorine concentrations are higher the effect is stronger and eats the aluminum. BE VERY careful of this acid. The danger zones would be near the aluminum itself.

Besides that lets look at this as well:

Aluminium battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ibpointless2]

ice cube tray water captret with new design:

DC voltage 0.17V
AC voltage 0.03V

Hook it up to a resistor for a day or two and see if the DC voltage goes up over time when connected to a resistor (measure across the resistor). Try a resistor that is at least higher than 1000 ohms.

[skaght]

AC voltage

ice cube tray water captret with new design:

DC voltage 0.17V
AC voltage 0.03V

[ibpointless2]

Your saying your meter will not read voltages below 200v? Are you sure its not 0 to 200v?

My meter can only read AC voltage from 1 to 200 volts. It can read milli volts if its DC but not AC. All my Water Captret are making voltage below 1 volts ( .100 to .800 volts ).

[Zooty]

I wish i could but my meter only goes as low as 200 VAC.

Your saying your meter will not read voltages below 200v? Are you sure its not 0 to 200v?

[ibpointless2]

Could you check your cell for an AC voltage?

I wish i could but my meter only goes as low as 200 VAC.

[Jbignes5]

Could you do me a favor?

@skaght,
I would try not using the battery and maybe bottled water instead, but the biggest thing is to not use the battery.








@all
Here's how I make my Water Captret Batteries.

YouTube - How to make a Water Captret Battery.MP4



Someone has pointed out to me that the Water Captret Battery has a magnetic field around it when a compass is place near it, its small but noticeable.

Could you check your cell for an AC voltage?

[ibpointless2]

Thanks for the updated design. I should be able to build lots of those together in my ice cube tray! I'll see if that works better in series and leave out the battery for now. I did use aluminum tape in my design, but the aluminum foil itself was definitely what was being consumed. There was grey scummy oxidized aluminum all around the plate and the tip of the foil was almost completely dissolved.

@skaght,
I would try not using the battery and maybe bottled water instead, but the biggest thing is to not use the battery.








@all
Here's how I make my Water Captret Batteries.

YouTube - How to make a Water Captret Battery.MP4



Someone has pointed out to me that the Water Captret Battery has a magnetic field around it when a compass is place near it, its small but noticeable.