This is it !

[gmeast]

Bam!

I've been staring at that "Flywheel" shot for nearly ten minuits now and as soon as I looked away, Boom ! Negative Resistance. It must be, the force imparted on battery because of the voltage flying past 0 volts has made a hole in the top of the battery for the energy to come in. Bam.

Maybe i'm nuts but I had to say it.

Good job Greg !

I think you're right. People don't post pictures like I'm posting. People like the guy in the video that started this thread only showed his gate signal ... not what's happenin' at the battery. Maybe Bedini would recognize the pulse ... he like to 'smack' batteries.

Later

[7imix]

I think you're right. People don't post pictures like I'm posting. People like the guy in the video that started this thread only showed his gate signal ... not what's happenin' at the battery. Maybe Bedini would recognize the pulse ... he like to 'smack' batteries.

Later

Can you explain exactly where you are putting the scope leads? I wish I had a two channel scope... Soon, I hope.

Thanks

[Farmhand]

I'm interested to know. Did you direct the spike back to the battery for this shot ? It doesn't look like it, if you did you did a good job of it.

It just make's more and more sense the more I look at it, if you double the size of the shot zoom x 2, I can see the top of the upgoing spike is missing except a speck further up. The upspike starts at about 10.7 volts which I think is a kind of thresh-hold within the battery, the green trace follows the yellow untill 10.7 or so then the negative force becomes so great the green trace reverses ? Thats one way I can see it. Hows that sound i'm just guessing trying to rationalise what i'm seeing.



Oh there is another thing I noticed today and that is in the watkykjy video he left the secondary open which going by my experiments is a condition that is not similar to having just primary windings. Having only primary windings is like having the secondary dead shorted. So the secondary is very important it seems it must be left open for self charging, by the looks of it.

EDIT

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeast
I think you're right. People don't post pictures like I'm posting. People like the guy in the video that started this thread only showed his gate signal ... not what's happenin' at the battery. Maybe Bedini would recognize the pulse ... he like to 'smack' batteries.

Later

7imix said,

Can you explain exactly where you are putting the scope leads? I wish I had a two channel scope... Soon, I hope.

Thanks

I can't say where Greg had them but I would place ground to the negative input lead near the circuit and the probe close to the battery terminal somewhere.

I see stuff there, but it's different, it won't show clearly on camera because it won't stay still for me to shoot it. So i'll try to video it, even if I get some vid it won't be up for 6 hrs at least.

Cheers

[7imix]

Oh there is another thing I noticed today and that is in the watkykjy video he left the secondary open which going by my experiments is a condition that is not similar to having just primary windings. Having only primary windings is like having the secondary dead shorted. So the secondary is very important it seems it must be left open for self charging, by the looks of it.

Excellent observation. That means the secondary is oscillating. Some of that magnetic energy will get pumped back into the primaries. I bet there are very rich harmonics in the oscillating secondary.

This whole thing has something to do with the expansion through inductance and collapse into capacitance, and getting the inductance, capacitance, and timing tuned properly... I have a hunch the distributed capacitance of the coil is crucial... It has to be able to catch all the energy from the magnetic field collapsing. If the capacitance is too small, the field collapse can't be captured and rf is radiated. If the capacitance is too big, it's like pumping water into a huge tank, the pressure can't build up... If the capacitance is just right, when the field collapses the capacitance is "pressurized" giving a nice firm bounce, allowing the oscillations to amplify themselves.

But I don't think resonance is needed for the self charger, and tuning the self charger is probably going to not be too hard... One of these babies with all the component values tuned should do a lot more than self charge. That's when avalanche can start to occur and phenomena like lighning show up.

[gmeast]

flywheel

Excellent observation. That means the secondary is oscillating. Some of that magnetic energy will get pumped back into the primaries. I bet there are very rich harmonics in the oscillating secondary.

This whole thing has something to do with the expansion through inductance and collapse into capacitance, and getting the inductance, capacitance, and timing tuned properly... I have a hunch the distributed capacitance of the coil is crucial... It has to be able to catch all the energy from the magnetic field collapsing. If the capacitance is too small, the field collapse can't be captured and rf is radiated. If the capacitance is too big, it's like pumping water into a huge tank, the pressure can't build up... If the capacitance is just right, when the field collapses the capacitance is "pressurized" giving a nice firm bounce, allowing the oscillations to amplify themselves.

But I don't think resonance is needed for the self charger, and tuning the self charger is probably going to not be too hard... One of these babies with all the component values tuned should do a lot more than self charge. That's when avalanche can start to occur and phenomena like lighning show up.

Hi Farmhand and 7imix,

First off, please refer to my circuit schematic. This is exactly what my PWM is. What's different than my other posts is that I'm now using the IRF540Z Power MOSFET.

[EDIT] ... also, I'm using a full amplitude PWM pulse on the gate of the 540Z and driving against a 2.2k bias resistor tying the gate to ground so you don't need to disconnect the power from the mosfet if you remove the PWM signal (the mosfet won't float around and turn itself "on")

The Yellow probe lead is connected to the Drain on the mosfet. The Green probe lead is connected to the Battery+ terminal via a big fat Red 8ga wire in the photos.

My 650-52 core still ONLY has the secondary wound on it. That is what I am pulsing. There are NO primaries on it yet.

Also, the diode is fed back to the batter+ by another big Red 8ga wire to the battery+.

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/charging/flywheel2.JPG

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/charging/flywheel2a.JPG

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/charging/flywheel2b.JPG

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/charging/flywheel2c.JPG

You can see in flywheel2.jpg the red wire coming from the Mosfet's Drain. it terminates at a junction, the pink wire with the bare alligator is the Yellow probe. Looking at flywheel2a.jpg, the connection opposite the Yellow probe connect point is the diode connection. You can see the diode and its white band aimed toward the battery. In flywheel2b.jpg you see it going down to the battery in this 'pulled-back" shot. Opposite the drain is a white wire ... that is the 'switched' side of the coil. Just in the foreground to that junction is another white wire ... that is the other side of the coil tied hard to battery+ by another big fat Red 8ga wire that you can see running all the way down to the battery's + terminal. The small black wire with the fat red squeezies on the alligator clip is the green probe ... the top of the battery. The trace is the same no matter whether I put the green probe there or directly on the battery terminal.

flywheel2c.jpg shows the black ground from the 540z Mosfet falling off the table, connecting to a big fat black 8ga wire leading down to the battry- teminal.

I am only pulsing the single winding that's on the toroidal core ... 116 turns of 16ga, Teflon Insulated, Silver Plated, Solid Copper Wire purchased from Hydrogen Garage ... as was the 650-52 MicroMetals core.

That's it guys. Nothing more, nothing less.

Later

[gmeast]

had to pulse something

Hi Farmhand and 7imix,

I know I cannot expect too much yet on the self-charging issue because watkykjy pulses all 3 primaries one after the other I think. When I have all the gate driving in place plus the primaries then what I've posted might mean something. Until then ... I just can't help myself. It's a compulsion:

" ... oohhh look ... two wires ..... mmmm ... must pulse ... " Isn't that what Homer Simpson would say or maybe Frankenstein ?

Just a little nerd humor. Later

[Farmhand]

Hi Farmhand and 7imix,

I know I cannot expect too much yet on the self-charging issue because watkykjy pulses all 3 primaries one after the other I think. When I have all the gate driving in place plus the primaries then what I've posted might mean something. Until then ... I just can't help myself. It's a compulsion:

" ... oohhh look ... two wires ..... mmmm ... must pulse ... " Isn't that what Homer Simpson would say or maybe Frankenstein ?

Just a little nerd humor. Later

G'day Greg, Have you pulsed anything interesting in the last 12 hours ? Or are you patiently waiting for tape, or for me to catch up.

Nerd humor is good, we can always use a smile. I've managed to resist pulsing everything that looks like it could be coil, so far. My real fascination is with things that spin around. That's why I like this project, you can see how it would fit into my home power plan. Part of which is outlined below. I don't have the knowledge just yet to know exactly where to start so right here will do, working out some selfcharging pulsing circuits will help obviously.

You know a bit about power Greg am I missing something important in my description below or am I on the right track at least. This is just what i'm thinking so far, which could change, i'm adaptable of course.

How's this sound, Using the drawing in this patent for an example.

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat390721.pdf

I think if I did this it might work.

1. Instead of the exiter. I use a battery powered circuit like ours to pulse the generator field coils.

2. Rotate the generator armature with a battery powered motor.

3. Power generated goes to the transformer for use.

4. Field collapse from the generator field coils is recovered to the battery powering the motor rotating the armature.

5. Field collapse from the motor powering the armature is recovered to the battery powering the exiter circuit.

6. Or both could be run from the same bank while charging another and swapping.

7. Or the two separate battery systems could be supplimented with wind or solar power.

8. the exiter could be a small permanent magnet generator and the shaft rotated by the same motor that turns the main generator armature.

A system like this in some configuration should be able to provide a stable usable and variable output for conventional devices, without an inverter I imagine.

Surely it can be done some way or another quite easily in this day and age. I think if I stick at it I can do it, but I don't want to waste money just trying everything, I need to understand what I need to do before I start . So untill then I will keep learning, thats a long while off yet, this project is a very good step for me, success with this will help enormously.

I realise I have a lot to understand yet but it doesn't sound too difficult, to be honest. It would be neat if it worked.

What would the output be? AC ?

Thanks


P.S. Greg, I think we are waiting for more shots. They are addictive.

[cikljamas]

Hi Farmhand and others !

It is interesting what you are proposing but what do you think
about this :

1. make bedini window motor (i made a few, and i can tell you these
motors are quite something but the problem is that here in Croatia
there is no place where i could buy big ferrite magnets to make big,
strong window motor)

2. use shaft of the window motor to spin shaft of some very effective
dc motor (those which people use to generate electrical power by
pedaling their home/room bicycles)

3. put good Fwbr-condenser combination after dc motor and charge
the primary/charging batteries !

I suppose it is good idea, but since i did not try to do such a thing i
can not say if it would work for sure, but only thing that could be the
problem is the speed of window motor that is necessary for turning
shaft of dc motor, but with some good flywheel-gear (sizes) combination
we could improve even transmission efficiency to get result that we need...

Cheers !

Did you see this :
!! Bi-toroid Transformer 1000% OU !!

Very interesting thing !!!
I am interested very much about that, hope we could use that stuff to
get sooner to our target destination...

See you later alligator, after while a crocodile (dundee)...

[Farmhand]

Your idea sounds good cikljamas, but where does the load go, is there an output ?

And the Bi-Toroid transformer I am a bit skeptical of. What happens when it is loaded with an inductive load or even some light bulbs. It looks to me like all the current is being limited by the load. So no real current draw, things might not look so good if some real current flowed, maybe smoke, but what do I know. When they make 1000% OU claim it may very well be true, but what happens when you try to use it ? Why not show it burning 1000 Watts of bulbs while being powered by 1 watt ? I do not understand ! Is it usefull ?


Sorry I was distracted again, i'm back on project now guys,

So my plan is to keep modifying this drawing below with different driver setups that work, I will try them first. I have this Multi Fet drawing with the simple driver I use now, this works fine with two fets, I use it, depending on coils and things the 470uf caps may need adjusting.

Eventually I'll make a drawing with the three separate PWM circuits as well which can be the new op-amp circuit greg is modifiying, or whatever people choose to use. But for the purpose of testing some drivers i will use this drawing. Maybe greg will beat me to the testing. No matter all part of the process, we can compare note's.

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p1L9gXtVmd2pLIF7EEJnv3Pji-JyLyPQv1BvHHgH4nUKS1edUgeq_EMxxXtWxISsyOABcoaRqMYj8PmzA-owvRzWHEH0L-IyA/Multi%20Fet%20simple%20driver-2.jpg?psid=1

Cheers

[Farmhand]

cikljamas, can you link me to the 1000% OU video, because when I watch the video below I see him putting 170 volts at 613 Ma which is 65.5 watts (correction 104 watts) in to get 15 watts out doesn't seem like much sense in that. Maybe the other video will change my mind I can't find it. Maybe i'm missing something.

YouTube - ThaneCHeins's Channel

Cheers

[cikljamas]

Your idea sounds good cikljamas, but where does the load go, is there an output ?

Hi, Farmhand!
Well guys it seems we are becoming some kind of family, aint we ?
(YouTube - "We are Family" by All Stars - We Are Family Foundation)

REgarding "where does the load go" might be you forgot the fact that
dc motor is a generator in the same time just if you turn it with some
other mechanical power...Did you see videos about ghetto generators
on youtube ?...I made one in my garage...So it works, if i tell you, you
you can relay on it, am i right ?...
All you got to do is to pull out from some old car dc (fan) motor, and hook it on the back wheel of the bicycle, put simple fwbr after fan motor and you have it : simple and usefull generator, now go back to my last post and read all over again what i ve been writing there, otherwise you ll have to see again that video with guy who sleeps in his wagon , ok ?
But that kind of (fan) motors are not very efficient i suppose (you have to pedal pretty fast to charge battery with 14,5 V, but there are motors that
you who live in western world could buy easily just by entering in certain
kind of shops and which are made in the manner that they are very, very
efficient (which implies that you do not have to pedal so fast to get the
same voltage charging), and they sell it to be hooked on the room bicycle
(there are videos on youtube about these motors too), i meant on that
kind of motors...I suppose that these motors use principle of transmission
(i cant remember the english word for it) that you can find in mechanism of every printer, or scanner...

And the Bi-Toroid transformer I am a bit skeptical of. What happens when it is loaded with an inductive load or even some light bulbs. It looks to me like all the current is being limited by the load. So no real current draw, things might not look so good if some real current flowed, maybe smoke, but what do I know. When they make 1000% OU claim it may very well be true, but what happens when you try to use it ? Why not show it burning 1000 Watts of bulbs while being powered by 1 watt ? I do not understand ! Is it usefull ?

Farmhand, i just thought that we could trust this claim because i believed
that after more than 400 pages on that forum they got to be speak
about something that makes sense, but it is possible that after i spend
more time on this subject of matter it turned out it was fraud...It would
not be the first time...Thanks for warning me, i will be more cautious now...

So my plan is to keep modifying this drawing below with different driver setups that work, I will try them first. I have this Multi Fet drawing with the simple driver I use now, this works fine with two fets, I use it, depending on coils and things the 470uf caps may need adjusting.

Farmhand, i spent a lot of time last two days trying to replicate and make
functional several 555 based desulfators, but except my cikljamas improved
first one from that seems to be OU drawing , these 555 based desulfators
are just crap...

Now that i saw your new drawing i think i will change some plans for today
and give a try...
Thanks for this idea, it seems to me very, very interesting...
I have big hopes, again !!!
Lets roll again !

Cheers !

[gmeast]

original watkykjy1 hex controller video

Hi everyone,

Below is the link to the original watkykjy1 video. He made this first and then made the more-polished 4-part video. I found it quite by accident when I was searching for self-chargers in general ... then POOF! ... there it was.

I had asked several times for something showing the 'power' waveform, not just the gate signal. this video appears to have the 'power' waveform. We should probably be looking for this signature ... unless it was actually 'cover' ... which I'll always suspect because of the nature of OU and the nature of OU people ... if you know what I mean.

That suspicion being voiced however, I believe this to be a good reference because it is more spontaneous than the 1-4 videos. Also, I can see a scope probe on the board which is near the fets ... likely on one of the gate signals, and also a probe on the output header ... most likely on Mosfet drain. He goes on to show both of the scope traces for a short while. He ALSO makes a comment about the 'choke' ... used as a 'filter', etc.

Nothing I have done looks anything like that power waveform, so this must have to do with firing all three primaries in a 'swirl', or it's time to forget it or start over.

YouTube - OU Charging effect of the hex controller

Later

[Farmhand]

Hi everyone,

Below is the link to the original watkykjy1 video. He made this first and then made the more-polished 4-part video. I found it quite by accident when I was searching for self-chargers in general ... then POOF! ... there it was.

I had asked several times for something showing the 'power' waveform, not just the gate signal. this video appears to have the 'power' waveform. We should probably be looking for this signature ... unless it was actually 'cover' ... which I'll always suspect because of the nature of OU and the nature of OU people ... if you know what I mean.

That suspicion being voiced however, I believe this to be a good reference because it is more spontaneous than the 1-4 videos. Also, I can see a scope probe on the board which is near the fets ... likely on one of the gate signals, and also a probe on the output header ... most likely on Mosfet drain. He goes on to show both of the scope traces for a short while. He ALSO makes a comment about the 'choke' ... used as a 'filter', etc.

Nothing I have done looks anything like that power waveform, so this must have to do with firing all three primaries in a 'swirl', or it's time to forget it or start over.

YouTube - OU Charging effect of the hex controller

Later

Hi Greg, Yeah I watched it two days ago. I thought you must have already seen it. In my opinion the probe is on the anode side of the recovery, I think it was being fired out of phase because of the amount of gate pulses, there wasn't many, probably only one channel showing, who knows, but I am convinced that the choke is important. That spikey pattern looked like spike's bouncing around inside the toroid because of being reflected by the choke. I have a ferrite ring wound and ready to try maybe tomorrow.

Anyway I tried this driver setup and preliminary report is good, i'll test this one for a day or two and put it through it's paces, I managed to run my test circuit above 100Khz today with less than 150Ma. My scope couldn't keep up on the 10k to 100k setting. Not with this driver though yet just with the standard one.

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pU4_PSRBQ5cYrf-M2C6ZbB9hBbRbaxRa2hLD92x9C1zzFgc1OhF_XgWmvE7BR97Q9wy_3HwFr6gEAFT6rwoRkEEnJhyvhK1uU/Desufator%20Multi%20Fet3.jpg?psid=1

I'll try the choke tomorrow and see what happens.

Cheers.

Oh yeah I think he is running that on a heap of batteries in series 72 volts I think, that would make the spikes look very severe and would accelerate the charging considerably, how does he power his circuit with 72 volts ? Regulator I suppose. Not sure I want to use 72 volts of batteries, with 1/6 the voltage (12 volts) the spike's are bound to look a bit different.

[Farmhand]

Hi all, Greg No luck with the choke I have a pic, but i'm still running this new two transistor 1 resistor driver, seems to be working well. Funny thing is my test circuit is more efficient than the one's on boards. It's pretty amazing I will have to find another current meter to check it but with the small toroid the circuit can idle at 11Ma 1.8 Khz but no real charging happens, thats a very small amount of power considering there is a led burning on there as well it is in series with a 2k resistor though, previous is with the secondary open. When I short the secondary the input go's up to 38 Ma and it actually starts charging the second battery.

This is what happened when I tried the choke, but I only tried it with 12 Ma Pathetic amount of power I know but I like to see what happens with as least force as possible just to see.

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pZhcj8S2TAL20g3_lLZ4YExjaWGDtxl5bUnKrGOTrMvbwC34ca_Hp8UE_fnlBafeklQFl3Vj1iRcZy6hfwf_rS6AEZfV5uw24/Test%20Circuit%20002.JPG?psid=1

You can see in these two the first oscillation go's way down past 0 v , I wish I had a better scope to see it. Blurry pic's but the trace is actually fairly crisp.
These PWM's appear to behave very differently when not actually driving a fet which is confusing at first, when checking the output of the PWM during construction (No fet attached) the pulses look about 30 off 70 on which distracted me but when it is all set up it is much different.

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pGUSOVR8n-rzBw4YnT6W1YLpicq-LTo8f8Xj8L4N6sOllyu3bd8RUVcYSvj5H4qZKhfmSjMVQK0bT_ePy3zxbiVhv2hqSUg4U/Test2%20002.JPG?psid=1

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pGUSOVR8n-rzBw4YnT6W1YLpicq-LTo8f8Xj8L4N6sOllyu3bd8RUVcYSvj5H4qZKhfmSjMVQK0bT_ePy3zxbiVhv2hqSUg4U/Test2%20002.JPG?psid=1

Seems like my camera has lost his glasses too. Bit fuzzy, sorry.

I'll run this setup with more power at high frequency soon. Seems good so far can't feel any change in temperature. Which is nothing special of course, just means it might be ok to hit the gate with 12.8 volts straight from the rail.
Seems to work well.

Cheers

P.S. I forgot this picture sorry, http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...001.JPG?psid=1

And I was going to say that the crown of thorns scope shot in the video looks really wild, I had a second look it's weird lookin. But pretty.

[cikljamas]

Farmhand, i gave a try and i spent few hours in hell, after all i found out
what was wrong with my circuit which i checked one hundred times :
one of my diodes was busted...Now i learned lesson, when i see next
time similar problem i will be able to guess what to check first and spare
few hours in hell...And now i am pretty sure that this diode was responsible
for yesterdays failure of replicating several 555 based desulfators...

Every lesson like that i have to pay with price of bloody, heavy hours...
But finally, i didnt notice any improvement using two mosfets and two
coils in one circuit according your diagram...Your desulfators are realy
great, with two of them i charged today battery with 75 % of efficiency
in range of input of 1 A - Output : 750 mA, and in the range of half an
ampere efficiency is 600 mA input - 500 mA output : 85 % of efficiency...
So, there is some real potential in your desulfator, but with good toroid
and with equipment you could go far, but after Greg said what he said
commenting waveform of Watkykjy stuff from his recently discovered
video i am not sure if you are going to be able to achieve OU like this...

So much time , so much nerves , so close, but still so far !
And if i am wrong nobody happier than me !

I ask myself often how Watkykjy can monitor this thread (suppose that
he does monitor it) and leave us without any support whatsoever....

Shame on him !

Cheers !