This is it !

[gmeast]

ringing frequencies

Yes these are very similar but looks like more power transfer from the powder core to me. The trace looks the same except the oscilations are wider as you go to the right. The first oscilation or two the air core has more amplitude because the power is not absorbed as well, thats what I see, both are good but with the powder core there is more penetration, it can be seen by the humping up in the space between the first and second oscilation and the yellow stays above the green higher for longer different noise pattern aswell.

Thats what I see. Looks good.

Cheers

I guess what's curious to me is that the 'ring out' is the same for both coils. I mean one has 400ft of wire and the other has only about 100 or less. So, I guess what I'm saying is "...I don't know what I don't know."

Interesting stuff. Later.

[Farmhand]

Toroid diameter

Are both toroids about the same size Greg ? That might have something to do with it.

No luck with the sparks, the desulfator won't make sparks like Stingo. Oh well.

Cheers

[gmeast]

air core NOT a toroid

Are both toroids about the same size Greg ? That might have something to do with it.

No luck with the sparks, the desulfator won't make sparks like Stingo. Oh well.

Cheers

The air core coil is just a plastic spool full of insulated 12ga solid copper wire 400' long right from the store ... 4-1/2" to 5" dia., 5" tall.

That's what's bugging me.

Later

[cikljamas]

i must ask you this :

what do you think about this ? Has anybody ever tried this ?

[Farmhand]

The air core coil is just a plastic spool full of insulated 12ga solid copper wire 400' long right from the store ... 4-1/2" to 5" dia., 5" tall.

That's what's bugging me.

Later

Oh I see I forgot that, I was confused again sorry. I have no idea what to make of that, I would have to agree with what you said earlier, that " it's like the circuit see's no difference" or something like that I think you said. It is almost exactly the same. Haha that is strange when I think about it, but without knowing much it's just interesting to me. And duly noted for further consideration as to why. The only thing I can think of is the extra wire on the air-core coil made it very similar in properties to the toroid with that winding, if anything it is a good indication, because I think I see small differences in favor of the toroid, if those traces are from above 20 Khz I am suitably impressed. Seems like confirmation of good core material if it behaves like air-core but better energy density. I think. It's like with the desufator, because I use iron powder core's and short thick wire, the performance is similar or better than than air-core, but when you crank up the Hz, the iron laminate gets hot, the ferrite makes noise then gets hot, and the air core eventually will catch up and beat even the iron powder because of the heat issue. I can get my little iron powder cored desulfator coils quite warm by heat from the coils building up in the core I believe, with air that can't happen.

If I put a steel wire cored "Bedini Type" coil on the desufator I get a very nice "h wave" with only two or three very small oscillations and only when the trace drops off the charge period, it actually looks very nice but I don't actually use the R60 welding rods I make them from 10 gauge fencing wire painted with pollyester insulation, if I use too high of a frequency the coil gets smoky hot. Maybe if I used the welding rods it wouldn't be so bad.

Anyway it seems iron powder core's behave much like air but the flux remains tighter to the core I imagine. When I get the nano scope and inductance meter things might become clearer. I suppose there is sombody that could just tell us these things but it's more fun to work it out ourselves. In the end the important thing is it works, but it would be good to understand exactly why.

Hi cikljamas, OF course that would be a very good circuit, it was designed by John Bedini. You may have trouble finding the schematic for the PWM part though I think it's a cap pulser. I have no doubt it would work very well indeed if you could get the full Schematic it shouldn't be too hard to build. It looks like a very usefull and durable circuit.

Cheers

[sucahyo]

Cikljamas, interesting , try use 600mA input. Any circuit connected to a radiant oscilator may oscillate too.

That Bedini circuit is interesting, weird that no one try it yet even if the commercial product already coming out.

Meanwhile, I think anyone should try to use germanium in series with two coil mentioned by LaserSaber. Here is my result:
YouTube - Stingo that produce neon purple

[Farmhand]

Hi all, Anyone know what these are,-

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pZFZCQ_vhhvkb53wRfFZCxc3sdKWbMfSj5o3eGhw90QisReO52c-LfxI-Tki2XTVoHr8m_GbMBqBl6W2_7zdPT0h_V9pOEIql/resistors%20004.JPG?psid=1

I took this scope shot below today of my fet switching five time's while the coil was discharging, neat huh, no not really so I realised that it is because of the 470uf cap in this circuit.

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pDa9_gon0qw4ZJ-SArHlDm1EFfHBiOljh4h1lalI23M_rs3IS-zld3gUh2wflJVjNqNSTFxAPW5PBZTu4jvaS_eir3HUODOh6/resistors%20005.JPG?psid=1

I changed the 0.01uf cap on the desufator circuit to the correct one a 0.001uf ten time's smaller i think, and this is what happened, looks like the coil/capacitor can't keep up with the PWM and the mosfet, most likely because I had 940uf across the coil/switch instead of 470uf and also the small toroid had something to do with it too, it probably has a laminate core, I don't know.

But anyway I think as long as the circuit we setup is right for the coils it shouldn't matter what PWM we use, it may still be advantagous to tune the size of the little PWM caps or the cap across the coil if we use one, I think we should even if it's small. Only one way to find out, as it appears above if the cap across the coil is too big the max frequency is limited, either that or it's because of the coil or core.

At this point i'm not confident I will receive any of the things i ordered because of the floods, 70 people are missing and 10 dead, the stuff I ordered could very well have been washed away, the wire and the meter should be OK. I can't even be angry about it be cause of all the misery, the store shelves are getting empty, we are cut off here for a bit.

Here's a slideshow, I knew it would happen sooner or later, something would happen and there would be no food to buy, great !! I'm OK I have my own food and I will share it if need be. I might have to break out my home made egg incubator and crank out some more chickens. If it keeps raining I might who knows what will happen.

Floods ravage Queensland

cikljamas here's that video.
Don Smith Free Energy - Video

Hows your winding going Greg ? I bet the primaries are harder to wind.

Cheers

[gmeast]

toroid

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hows your winding going Greg ? I bet the primaries are harder to wind.

Cheers

Sorry to hear about the lost lives, missing people and flood damage.

I haven't applied any wax yet ... still straightening the radials.

Later

[Farmhand]

So I was thinking since i probably won't get op-amps for a while (floods) I would make up a CMOS PWM and test out some opto drivers or something. Should be easy, PWM pulse through a resister to the opto which switch's a pulse from positive rail through a resister to Mosfet gate then another resister to ground ? How's that sound ? I know your happy with what you got and I am confident the CMOS PWM is adaptable also, so we have lots of options if we want them.

Hmmm I have other idea's but too difficult to explain, i'll just try them and see, with no nano scope yet i'll have to just try to see what is better. I might start putting three PWM's on a board and try to work out practical layout too when i'm done.

Oh Greg, can you measure the resistance of a single primary winding when you get a chance ?

ALSO.

I was just looking at Stans drawing again and I think I would like to try to build a gating/grouping board aswell "like that one with 555's' to experiment with, it just looks really usefull, for some reason. I think I have worked out what makes these CMOS chips tick. So maybe I can use them to do a grouping board instead of 555's.

I also wound as much of my positive input cable onto a 40mm ferrite ring to test that out for a while.

Cheers

[gmeast]

cmos pwm

So I was thinking since i probably won't get op-amps for a while (floods) I would make up a CMOS PWM and test out some opto drivers or something. Should be easy, PWM pulse through a resister to the opto which switch's a pulse from positive rail through a resister to Mosfet gate then another resister to ground ? How's that sound ? I know your happy with what you got and I am confident the CMOS PWM is adaptable also, so we have lots of options if we want them.

Hmmm I have other idea's but too difficult to explain, i'll just try them and see, with no nano scope yet i'll have to just try to see what is better. I might start putting three PWM's on a board and try to work out practical layout too when i'm done.

Oh Greg, can you measure the resistance of a single primary winding when you get a chance ?

ALSO.

I was just looking at Stans drawing again and I think I would like to try to build a gating/grouping board aswell "like that one with 555's' to experiment with, it just looks really usefull, for some reason. I think I have worked out what makes these CMOS chips tick. So maybe I can use them to do a grouping board instead of 555's.

I also wound as much of my positive input cable onto a 40mm ferrite ring to test that out for a while.

Cheers

Hi Farmhand,

When you say "CMOS chips", to what are you referring, specifically ... gate chips, 555/556, or what exactly ... it must be a semantics problem I have.


On the primary resistance:
... first thing I'm going to do is probably cut the entire spool of primary (purple) wire into three equal segments and rewind them back onto their own spools ... that is unless someone says:

"no ... you have enough for 'this' many turns with plenty left over ..."

... and if I don't hear that then I'll cut it and measure the resistance of one of the segments and post that to you.

Later

[gmeast]

1P802 yellow transformer tape 1" wide

Hi Farmhand and all,

Finally got around to calling Loadstone Pacific about the 1P802 transformer tape. I tried to get an email quote, they said they responded but I must have deleted it by accident ... ('cause they had all of my info').

... got them on the phone. 1"W roll of the yellow stuff is $6.00 per roll but they have an order minimum of $50.00 per line item ... so that's that. The nice lady had me fill out a sample request (email form) for 1 roll of 1"W yellow. I hope I actually receive the sample ... I'm sure they will provide me with a confirming if they decide to sample me the tape.

That's an update,

Later

[gmeast]

concerned

Well, it seems there might be a problem with me being able to perfectly duplicate the Toroidal transformer as seen in the video and shown in the Toroid winding guide.

The guide says, and I quote:

"There will be about 133 - 136 turns in this winding, though it can vary from 127 - 147 due to manufacturing tolerances in the insulation."

Well ... I posted pictures of my progress and you all saw my toroid and the secondary winding. There was NO ROOM left for more turns than I have, and I have only 116 Turns. When I physically measured the bare wire (stripped end) it was UNDER spec by 0.001" which means the insulation is WAY out of spec because it's too FAT to get as many turns as the guide says I should.

So ... in my infinite wisdom to have at least ONE (1) component in this effort be EXACTLY the same as in the video IS NOT POSSIBLE !

Well, that sucks the big green one !

Just another update. Later

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg, Don't stress about the secondary turns. I don't think a few turns on the secondary will make any difference I honestly don't. If each primary has 38 turns that would still be only 114 turns of primaries and the primaries are thicker. I doubt very much if you or anybody else could have possibly wound any more turns on that core, The main thing is that it's full and even. Do we "REALLY KNOW" how many turns is actually on the Toroidal Transformer in the video ?

By CMOS chip i mean the CD4001/CD4011 . Like on the desulfator. The PWM circuit on it is about as simple as it gets, which allowed me to eventually work out how it works kind of, don't ask me to explain I will just confuse myself or somebody else. I don't think the same circuit will work with a op-amp but when I study op-amps some more, get some more op-amps and get the op-amp circuit successfully completed, I might know.

CD4001 pdf, CD4001 description, CD4001 datasheets, CD4001 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

"General Description
These quad gates are monolithic complementary MOS
(CMOS) integrated circuits constructed with N- and P-channel
enhancement mode transistors. They have equal source
and sink current capabilities and conform to standard B series
output drive. The devices also have buffered outputs
which improve transfer characteristics by providing very
high gain.
All inputs are protected against static discharge with diodes
to VDD and VSS. "

Cheers

P.S. There are actually "CMOS Op-Amps" availiable, but they seem to be expensive, the Quad 2 input logic NOR/NAND gate's are cheap, could you check out the CD4001 specs for me just quickly and compare to op-amps ? I can't see any real differnces in what they do. Sorry for all these edits all the time, i'm forgetfull when I get excited. Did you know Nikola Tesla invented tha "AND Gate" tech. I think so anyway, i'm sure i read that somewhwere in my researchings.

Here it is Tesla's Invention of the Electronic Logic Gate | Tesla FAQ No. 24 | Interesting Facts About Nikola Tesla Tha darn tricky Nikola Tesla, he didn't leave much for anyone else to discover. Which should make life easy for us, and it would if people didn't make what they find out about his discoveries so obscure. But we will prevail, and rediscover what we need.

[pmazz850]

I believe in one of the videos he does state that there is 44 turns on his pirmarys. I wouldn't worry about the secondary count since your not really using it. But if you do try to use the toroid" Bob Boyce style" there is a relationship between primary and secondary.

[Farmhand]

Hi pmazz, thanks for that I didn't catch that part, now that you mention it, now would be a good time for me to watch the viedo's again, i'll try to do it today. I agree, you're right, the length of the secondary shouldn't matter for this project at all. I've noticed though that there is a big difference in how a transformer works when pulsed like this depending on if the secondary is shorted, left open or loaded in different ways. It's very interesting in itself actually, especially loading it differently, there are profound changes in the waveforms between shorted and open, when the secondary is shorted an ordinary toroidal transformer behaves like a normal single winding, kind of, but when it's open there is much less current draw and much less charging aswell.

Which makes sense because there would be less power flowing through the primary when the secondary is left open because none is taken out the secondary, when it's loaded some is taken away, the interesting thing is of course that when the secondary is shorted there is no power taken from it but it still behaves like there is power taken from it. Which needs more investigation in my opinion.

It will be very interesting to experiment with this.

Cheers