Don't Kill Dipole

[Slovenia]

Splitting the positive??

I feel in my heart that splitting the positive is also important to what we are doing here in this thread. Am I right about this or did I take a wrong turn?? Anyway, the concept has been bugging me at night for some reason. I don't understand it but feel it is important somehow.

Please enlighten me on this thing to if you will. Thanks.

Jbignes5,
Your thread, "Tesla on one wire current" seem applicable also.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5543-tesla-one-wire-current.html

There are a lot of posted goodies and it's hard to wrap the mind around it all. There is a lot of stuff to digest and it's all different than what we've been taught in school.

[Jbignes5]

True...

I really like the printed pcb wimshurst machine. That would be fun to build.

Here is another nice one that I would like to build at some time.

Jake's Wimshurst Machine and How to Build It! (Part 1) | The Steampunk Workshop

The output tube patent is a nice reference, thanks.

However, I think Don Smith had a simpler method of generating electrostatic potential. He uses batteries, a 555, a mosfet, a neon sign transformer, car ignition coils, and a spark gap discharging into a tesla coil to generate very sharp impulses of high voltage low current at high frequencies.

Both of these approaches are equivalent; the Don Smith circuits might be more accessible to those who don't have extensive machining skills to build a wimshurst generator. I'll be reporting more on my Don Smith experiments in jbignes5's thread about him.

One of the most difficult aspects of this build is getting the impulse frequency to match the resonant frequency of the coil. (Quarter, half, or full wave resonance) This is where using digital logic controlled devices gives a big advantage over mechanical methods where controlling the frequency and consistency of the impulses is more difficult.

In tesla's "system of transmission of electrical energy" patent:

NIKOLA TESLA - Google Patent Search



925hz: Each wave is 200 miles long. Quarter wave length: 50 miles.

So to use 925hz, we would need a secondary wire fifty miles long. I think that is probably out of most people's budget. To get the coil down to under 500 feet we need to raise the frequency to around 600khz. If we want the coil to be small enough to fit in a portable device, the frequency will have to be much, much faster.

This is why I am building this impulse generating circuit from the Don Smith chapter in Patrick Kelly's book.

True but it made more sense to explain it via the static analogy.

I would go much higher then 20 khz. Even Don used 39 khz. in his table top system. I am thinking that the higher you go more and more becomes available for you to use because finer charges are easier to move without disturbing matter as a whole. kinda like trying to generate from the particles in water instead of the water itself. The bigger the particles the more it takes to move them. It is the same premise as that. Lets call it resonant charge propagation. So you can tune the device to work with the more finer charges which are more abundant.

I would also throw a cap on the output line as well in series. That way it separates the output from the transformer.

[7imix]

I really like the printed pcb wimshurst machine. That would be fun to build.

Here is another nice one that I would like to build at some time.

Jake's Wimshurst Machine and How to Build It! (Part 1) | The Steampunk Workshop

The output tube patent is a nice reference, thanks.

However, I think Don Smith had a simpler method of generating electrostatic potential. He uses batteries, a 555, a mosfet, a neon sign transformer, car ignition coils, and a spark gap discharging into a tesla coil to generate very sharp impulses of high voltage low current at high frequencies.

Both of these approaches are equivalent; the Don Smith circuits might be more accessible to those who don't have extensive machining skills to build a wimshurst generator. I'll be reporting more on my Don Smith experiments in jbignes5's thread about him.

One of the most difficult aspects of this build is getting the impulse frequency to match the resonant frequency of the coil. (Quarter, half, or full wave resonance) This is where using digital logic controlled devices gives a big advantage over mechanical methods where controlling the frequency and consistency of the impulses is more difficult.

In tesla's "system of transmission of electrical energy" patent:

NIKOLA TESLA - Google Patent Search

The length of the thin-wire coil in each transformer should be approximately one-quarter of the wave length of the electric disturbance in the circuit, this estimate being based on the velocity of propagation of the disturbance through the coil itself and the circuit with which it is designed to be used. By way of illustration if the rate at which the current traverses the circuit, including the coil, be one hundred and eighty-five thousand miles per second then a frequency of nine hundred and twenty-five per second would maintain nine hundred and twenty-five stationary waves in a circuit one hundred and eighty-five thousand miles long and each wave would be two hundred miles in length. For such a low frequency, to which I shall resort only when it is indispensable to operate motors of the ordinary kind under the conditions above assumed, I would use a secondary of fifty miles in length.

925hz: Each wave is 200 miles long. Quarter wave length: 50 miles.

So to use 925hz, we would need a secondary wire fifty miles long. I think that is probably out of most people's budget. To get the coil down to under 500 feet we need to raise the frequency to around 600khz. If we want the coil to be small enough to fit in a portable device, the frequency will have to be much, much faster.

This is why I am building this impulse generating circuit from the Don Smith chapter in Patrick Kelly's book.

[dragon]

Great ! I should have seen that with the tesla switch and the one wire... I was blinded by the word "dipole". ( forest and trees thing ) Thank you very much !!! Now that I know what I'm looking for I can start building !
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Http://Www.Animalhelp.Net/

[Jbignes5]

Yup...

Now you are getting it! Nice analogy.

Now are you seeing how we got things backwards. We pay for the difference and then pay again to resupply that difference in our current systems. When nature does not have this cost associated with it, it essentially does it for free after the initial input. That input was long ago but the potential moves constantly. The charges are the same but the voltage is static in a sense that movement creates the potential. Since potential is only the ability to attract real charges it tends to be very dynamic and self sustaining in a sense. Don't get me wrong the potential is very real but in the sense of whatever is building this virtual network is the ability of that network to reach out and seek like real charges and pull them into the source. I think this network is self healing and self modulating based on the distance of the charges to that network finger. Think of it like this. A source attracts the little conductors of potential. They build up on the fly and reach out and attach to the charges and then pull it in twords the source. The frequency of the source is how many times can it pull charges and the size of those charges that it does pull in. Seeing that these pulls are not matter based they have a tension to them as well. Bigger charges would move slower to the source, when smaller charges would move relatively easy. This allows you to pull many more smaller charges into the source as the frequency rises. When we approach the smaller sized charges they don't really bother larger matter on the whole because of the strength of the charges. So you can amass more of the smaller charges without having massed effects like heating and cooling. Heating would be from pulling larger more dense charges through matter and cooling would be pulling charges out of matter.

I hope this helps...

[dragon]

KABLAAAAM... my head exploded... I studied some similar patents that Armagadn posted some time back but it still didn't click but the above patent ( first one ) is using an offset between the two caps to create a continuous potential difference... so it sinks in. Shuttling the potential back and forth between the varying capacitance's thus powering the load with essentially the same energy. Is that right?

So, using a water analogy again, if you had 2 drums of water both equally filled on a rotating device traveling 360 degrees, water lines between the two with a motor in the center... rotate the drums so one is higher than the other and the water will flow through the motor to the lower drum, as it rotates the drained drum becomes the lower drum allowing the higher drum to equalize to the lower again...

If the above is correct then that gives me a different perspective to Lamar's schematic with the 3 coils.
________
Hamann motorsport

[Jbignes5]

Yes!

I hope that helps people understand my cryptic writings. I don't mean to be so cryptic but my understanding of this stuff is actually from years and years of reprogramming myself to the natural ways and it is buried deep in all the greats of our time of this natural way of dealing with energy.

Capacitors or leyden jars as I like to call them actually do the job of separation or isolation all while still including the ability to either pass or block any part of a signal. They also have the ability to increase the base potential of a signal and allow for a more powerful swing in that potential. This is a key aspect of what we are looking for. But there are from what I am understanding a great many ways to utilize this swing. Take this patent for example:

Electrostatic energy conversion system - Google Patent Search

This is a variable capacitance static converter. That allows the conversion of static energies to be given motion and cycled through the load as an ac signal. It also uses a vacuum to control the static corona that would otherwise be there if air was dense enough. This unit should be looked at more. It needs a source of static potential though which should be very easy to provide Via Wimherst machine or the likes. So we need a source then a leyden storage system and then a control system to control the amount of the built up charge on the leyden jars to inject into the above system.

Simple right... lol

Well I found a rather nice mini static generator machine as well.. Here it is:

MINIATURE PRINTED CIRCUIT ... - Google Patent Search

Also we need a way to regulate the output of the mini static generator machine as well and this of course uses.... You guessed it vacuum TUBES!

Here it is:

FELICI - Google Patent Search

We also need a way to take the high voltages present and convert them to low voltage and higher current. This is a simple matter of stepping down the voltage through a transformer where the load is supposed to be on the first patent but that transformer needs to be a Tesla no core transformer built to the correct Tesla method. Both resonance and split primary should be used much like Don Smith used.

I have also been playing with the idea of a special antenna that has an aluminum core with a dielectric wrap with a steel or copper sheath to pick off the charges before it gets to the core. Since aluminum is not exactly reactive to magnetic fields in the normal manner this might prove useful as a broadcast element for the potential we will provide and the coper would intercept the charges before they get to the core of the input antenna's. I have not tested this out yet but I am really liking the idea so far. The larger antenna would be any normal antenna, single core and the smaller antennas would be custom made.

Lets see if we can figure this out then....

[7imix]

In an attempt to help clarify, let me extract some important points from jbignes5's post:

The source in this case is a swirling mass of charges that have formed organized chains into a never ending cycle.

Ok that source is the dipole.

Lets relate this to what Tesla figured out. He figured out that charge and motion are not the same.

Tesla figured out that the medium is highly attracted to pure potential.

Remember that voltage goes one way -> and current gets attracted the other <-. Voltage seems to move faster then the charges and leads me to believe that voltage does indeed lead current.

If you have read any of the Tesla documents You should read my favorite one:

"Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency"

The charges in matter can be pumped up or leeched away and thats where we see transient effects like turning into solids or liquid.

Visualize the dipole as the yin-yang or tai chi symbol. There are not two separable parts. The whole always spins around itself, and one half cannot exist without the other.

So a dipole is the result of spinning charges. In a permanent magnet, the magnetic field is created by the electrons spinning around the metal atoms which are arranged in a crystal lattice. In non-magnetic material, the atoms are oriented randomly and thus they do not form an organized chain and do not produce an emergent dipole.

Extremely short, high voltage spikes sent into a tesla coil will set up a big emergent dipole. Voltage moves faster than current. Current is simply electrons wobbling in the wire, producing waste heat after being disturbed by a rush of voltage. Pulsing a coil at the coil's resonant frequency sets up high potential with little to no current. The resulting emergent dipole has a lot of inertia and can be easily kept going if the high frequency impulses are timed properly. (resonance)

Think of a hand pump for a well. Pumping the well represents voltage. The well water flowing represents amperage. The initial effort to pump the well does not immediately create flow. Once the water is flowing, the "dipole" exists. If the conditions are right the water can continue flowing even after the pumping has stopped.

"Don't kill the dipole" means draw water from the well without stopping the well from flowing. It means to siphon off momentum from the big dipole without taking enough that this emergent dipole starts to wobble and loses coherence.

In one of Lamare's threads, he talks about using a low-pass filter capacitor to decouple the load from the source. When a load is attached to the source, the jitter and pushback from the load gets transmitted back to the source as noise and the source starts to wobble and dissipates it's potential as heat. Using a filter capacitor would decouple the load's high frequency jitter from the source
and thus prevent the load from killing the source's dipole.

I hope this post is helpful. Much respect to Jbignes5 and others on this forum for enhancing my understanding greatly.

[Jbignes5]

Simply... Yes...

But I need to be perfectly clear about the AC form of RF energy. Although this can and will work you would be limited by the amount of excitation that you can have around the device. Imagine vibrating your own cells to a point that they pop. This is usually called RF burns.

If you take Dr. Stifflers device and statically shield it in most of the circuit and only allow interaction between two points it will mostly be focused in between those two points. This might take the burn out of the process because you are creating a boundry that will contain this vibration and only let it interact with the environment. I don't know if that can be done and since you have one already why don't you try it. Static shielding is just aluminum foil around wires and components. It could even be a metal casing with no connection to ground. Dr. Stiffler's unit might even fail to produce anything useful at all then but it would let us know how it is operating at that point.

I don't think the device would work in the same way since he uses the AV plug to get useful work out of the device. If we look at the AV plug you will see that it converts the back and forth method by half rectification through the AV plug. Although his diode in the water experiment is proof that a standing potential on the diode can do useful work. It is a pulsing potential and Rosemary uses the same premise. The coil functions two ways in Rosemary's circuit. It uses the coil for inductive spike generation and it uses the coating of resistive material on that coil to intercept those charges that are attracted to that coils potential to gain excess heat. These two methods are vary close indeed and it is the proof that there is charges entering the wires from the outside to the inside of the coil or in the case of Dr. Stiffler's circuit and diode in water experiment we see that it can do work for us if we provide a way for a boundry to be made. That boundry in Dr. Stiffler's case is the diode. Water is just a condensation of air. It is much denser then air and that is what causes the boundry layer we call surface tension. On the bottom of the diode there is equalizing pulses of both polarities. But on the top the diode creates an imbalance and creates a flow of charges twords the diode electrode. This pulls the charges from the water around the diode electrode like pulling the table cloth from under a good set of china. When done right you yank the charges away from the water and it falls apart or disassociates the water leaving the Oxygen for a bit to hang around and the H2 part gets released.

" Hydrogen is lighter than Oxygen.
This is a very simple question. Hydrogen is the first element on the periodic table of elements and it weighs 0.08988 grams per litre. Oxygen is the 8th element on the periodic table. It weighs 1.429 grams per litre."

This is why oxygen doesn't disassociate or looks like it doesn't. The densities are very different. Think of oil and water and how they do not mix well. When Hydrogen looses it's bond with oxygen it literally flies up away from the oxygen and stays hydrogen because it's partner has fallen away from it.

"Water (chemical structure: H2O) has 2 Hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom. If you add the atomic masses of each of these, you get (1.01+1.01+16.00=) 18.02 atomic mass units (amu).
Oxygen gas (O2) has 2 oxygen atoms combined and weighs 32.00 amu. "

So you can see that Oxygen gas will fall in water or nearly fall. It's actually heavier then water or hydrogen. The Oxygen gas is actually combined in the same process that creates the hydrogen in his experiment. It shuffles the binding charges and allows Oxygen to combine into Oxygen gas or O2 and then falls away. This makes it appear that he is only disassociating only one gas but I assure you he isn't.

[dragon]

Jbigness, thank you so much for your explanations, and continuous pounding at our thick skulls. I understand most of what your trying to explain... I've read your words and re-read them. Unfortunately, with all the information and reading available sometimes things get jumbled, confusing and downright frustrating at times. Even though I have a better understanding I still lack the picture forming in my mind as to a simple beginning device -

A short story on an experiment I had done some time back.... While working with Dr. Stifflers SEC 15 circuit I created a secondary parallel tank circuit on the output. It was separated by his parasitic plate and wasn't driven directly. I added an antenna to the secondary tank and it imediately toased the inductor on the main circuit - smoked it. I replaced it and tried it again - same result. At the time I figured it was simply a really bad feed back and moved on. After time has passed and all the reading I've been doing I'm starting to think there was much more going on than I realized at the time. Could this be what we've been looking for with the exception of finding a way of controlling the feedback?
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EXTREME VAPORIZER

[Jbignes5]

I think we should study post #38 on this thread by Jbignes5 very well and not just pass it off. I feel it is very relevant to what we are doing. Also, he appears to understand Bearden and Tesla very well including this dipole question of ours and he is agreeable to answering questions about anything. So, we need to pick his brain and try to understand fully what he is trying to share with us, so that we will understand too and will be able to apply this principle in the real world.

Slovenia,

This has been my problem all along. Even though I Give it my best attempt at showing this has been done already, that the results are in, no one believes me or the ones who have tred this path already. Weather I don't explain it entirely or I over explain it people don't or won't read it all. It took me over 20 years to be able to decipher what Tesla and others have found out and now I feel just like Tesla did. No matter how easy they all say it can't be done. Instead of listening and sitting down and doing the experimenting they dismiss it as being to simple. They throw terms around like cop and overunity when in reality the secret has always been external to the device being made.

We have deluded ourselves into thinking that energy comes from our devices. Well it doesn't. It has always been external and there is a very simple cycle that is made with any device.

If you want to interact with the external charges or energy then you need to provide an external input and output. When we don't do this it causes a vacuum or on the contrary a pressure to build up in our devices. This vacuum or pressure is fighting our attempts to pull in the environmental charges and allow them to transform into the desired energy gains we need.

I will try this one more time to set the record straight. No matter what you think we live in a fluidic atmosphere. We must treat our systems or devices as under water devices. If we want to utilize those devices they need to be designed as a pump that deals with this liquid. Most systems like Rosemary Anslie are far too open to utilize the returning pressures that are coming back to the system. If she had statically shielded the entire circuit except for where she wanted to interact with the environment then she would have seen a much higher return. It's like designing a boat made of cheese cloth. It wouldn't float very well now would it?

Why exactly do you think Tesla started looking into the Tesla turbine? This was just after he had a revelation that the medium and it's charges act under strict fluidic laws. He also was very into static behavour and the laws that govern it as well. I would suggest that one bones up on static laws and how they can be used to create a boundry so that we have a separation of the environment from our systems in key places. Vacuum also plays a nice role in creating a boundry as evident by the many static devices that have been patented already.

Now, one may wonder why we need to create a boundry condition in our systems. Well if a pump was to pump into a pipe that was filled with holes would it do what we desired that well? I doubt it. We need to plug the holes in our systems to enhance the results so that we can say this is the best we can do.

More later... Questions anyone...

[Farmhand]

I'm trying to think of a very simple way to stop the battery charging at a certain voltage (adjustable) using only a couple of more parts, now that it's raining i'll have time inside to tinker. I think it would also be able to run a Joule thief from the voltage difference in the negative line from one side of the scr to the other an led lights there and the voltage difference can be altered to suit it, not sure exactly about joule thief I don't have one but i see they can run off very little power.

I've tried a few different things with different results but i'm not sure it's wise to say some of the kooky things i've tried with this its very forgiving. I've made some things give of smoke and some go bang but I end up back with the original setup it just works!

Cheers all

[Slovenia]

Jbignes5's Post #38 of this thread

I think we should study post #38 on this thread by Jbignes5 very well and not just pass it off. I feel it is very relevant to what we are doing. Also, he appears to understand Bearden and Tesla very well including this dipole question of ours and he is agreeable to answering questions about anything. So, we need to pick his brain and try to understand fully what he is trying to share with us, so that we will understand too and will be able to apply this principle in the real world.

[Slovenia]

Farmland's Circuit

Thanks Farmland!!

[Farmhand]

Well this solar panel thing is Unreal it's pouring rain here again and with my simple charge pump (not my idea but it works) My panels are pulsing a battery once a second from 14.4 volts on the panels and cap and the battery is 12.6 volts and charging. It's easy, works a treat. I cant wait to see if it will charge in the moonlight.

Here's the drawing I made if someone wants to redo it that can draw well feel free, others may find it as usefull as me the in - out figure's may have you scratching your head too. Seems like no less than 1 in 1 out looks like more but I can't tell. The panels remain at a higher voltage than the battery while they can 2 volts's or so, and it's easy for them to do it a small panel can charge a large battery with this setup in full sun I tried it, the batteries are then hard to drain aswell. When the light gets low it pulses a decent amount of energy to the battery rather than trickle a useless amount.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...rcuit-pump.jpg

Cheers