Don't Kill Dipole

[sucahyo]

ran across this searching coils. They where talking about ether waves. and with the coils and tubes looked different. The box with the tubes sticking out and coils made me think Tesla.
Construction of Keppinger Design Vacuum Tube Style Theremin.

The 90 degree angle is interesting. Some believe interaction of tempic field require those.

Now your question, the output frequency and voltage stability is dependent upon the trigger circuit design and stability. If the trigger circuit is designed properly a very close tolerance can be maintained on freq and voltage.

I thought your circuit use spark gap? And spark gap is naturally unstable?

John Bedini at agricultural section mention that the output energy may also have relation with sun position.

Don't worry with the delay .

If used for stationary power circuit must maintain a stable 50/60 Hz output to trigger tube's just like the modern day DC to AC inverters.

Sine wave? If you never try digital, can you try my stingo? because I believe my circuit is the only circuit that utilize coil spike to switch transistor.

I believe this is how Moray's worked", during time trigger tube is cutoff output tube trigger voltage must not be allowed to go to zero or output tube will stop putting out because of no potential to work against so bottom end trigger voltage must be in the order of 200 to 300 volts.

Digital but with positive offset?

I Leyden jars are designed to hold a static charge inside a statically shielded vessel.

There are many hints that suggest a leyden jar can store not just normal electricity but other type of energy too.

[7imix]

Did some Spice simulations with the canary circuit and some variations:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Found an interesting detail in how the current flows trough a circuit like this. See attachment.

I built the canary and took some scope shots. I then removed the capacitor you suggested and took some more scope shots.

YouTube - Electronic canary

Thanks for pointing out this circuit, lamare!

[Farmhand]

Hi Jbignes5,

I was wondering if we could start looking into methods of converting pure static charge into a voltage potential.

I also think that we need to find a suitable method to do that, I think this could be very usefull for a number of different collection methods or different devices for generating or collecting static charges.

Does a normal tv antenna collect static charges ? Is that what causes my tv to have bad reception when it's windy ? If yes what does normally happen to these static charges ? Can I collect static from my tv antenna ?

Actually I should try to find out for myself, but how do i know if the info I find on the net elsewhere I correct. It is hard to know.

Maybe it's been mentioned elsewhere and iv'e missed it.

Anyhow I like your thoughts direction Jbignes5.

Cheers

Whats the easiest and most effective way to make a small layden jar for experimenting with possible sources of static, I made one from a glass jar with aluminium wrapped around the outside and steel wool inside with a central electrode (bolt) protruding through the lid of the jar but it doesn't seem to work so good it may be too large for the amount of static available I think. Should I try a different way with two copper cylinders inside each other and glass between ?

[lamare]

Still, the coils are inductively coupled, so the magnetic flux inside is more or less equal. So, under certain conditions the currents going trough the coils are also equal and therefore it should be possible to make use of this. However, I have to give this more thought, that's for sure. With the canary circuit, you also get a problem with the DC component cause by the bias of the transistor.

Did some Spice simulations with the canary circuit and some variations:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Found an interesting detail in how the current flows trough a circuit like this. See attachment.

[Jbignes5]

Statics and the conversion of...

I was wondering if we could start looking into methods of converting pure static charge into a voltage potential. I didn't think this was possible but it just might be we have been sitting on it the whole time. The spark gap! I think this is the unifying method to convert static potential into real charge that can be used like our voltage in electronics. Of course we would have to separate the capacitor completely from the leyden jar. Although they look like the same concept they are very different.

Leyden jars are designed to hold a static charge inside a statically shielded vessel. This static charge does not behave the same as a Voltage potential does. A static charge clings to a surface. It is merely a thin layer of charge condensed on this surface. Although we can deposit and remove charges via friction it is not necessary to do so to get it to influence other bodies and their charge state. When I say condensed I mean that as a body moves through our space it develops a condensation or attraction of free charges in the ambient environment to move to the body moving through that space via the bodies own charge state when compared to the ambient environment. Whew that was a big statement.

Capacitors work in somewhat the same method but it has more to do with surface area then anything else like room to hold a charge. I believe that the capacitor has an ability to change or rectify the static into real power by raising the base potential value of the plates in a capacitor in effect giving you more punch on the output. In the case of a capacitor the static converter would be the dielectric itself. So in effect this would raise the base value of charge via the dielectric and not the plates. Although the plates can be used to pick up this potential difference, it is converted through the plates contact with the dielectric surface. This capacitance method is only capable of converting small amounts of static but it should be noted that there is a combination that could be used to facilitate a huge difference in the output when capacitors are used in conjunction with spark gaps.

Spark gaps are really only closely placed antennas that can directly interact with the environment to involve more real charges into our systems. These real charges are what we attract to our normally operated electronics and consequently pull into our systems to use as a flow. We have always used these charges and thought we were actually containing these charges within our systems. We have not been containing the charges at all and failed to look outside of our box for the answer. If we started to look at our environment as a seething writhing mass of charges we would understand that we are just focusing and orienting the charges to do our bidding just by either providing or maintaining a potential for the attraction and control of those charges.

Just how hard is it for man to understand that our ancient people knew more about this world because they did not have to know very complex calculations to be able to figure this stuff out. With geometry being the exception to that rule but geometry was all around us so figuring that out wouldn't have been too hard.

Lets look at the Bagdad battery for instance. Most think that these were used as a battery of normal construction but what if they were just merely static leyden jars? The inside was the container for white powdered gold and an oil was used as the dielectric with the pottery being the outside conductor so to speak.

Now this changes the whole premise of what we are looking at.

[Slovenia]

Trigger Circuit

Great to have you back Rebus57. I was wondering where that trigger circuit was.

Your take on this Tesla stuff is all very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing it. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat in anticipation. You've got me studying like crazy.

Note the schematic, there is no trigger/control circuit drawn. This circuit is dependent upon device final design criteria..

[Rebus57]

Late response for Suchayo

Suchayo, sorry for the delay in response. My houseboat project is bigger job than expected, large sections of wall's turned to compost too many hrs in last two days and more to come I don't like this fiberglass stuff wish I did not have to work and could tinker all day. Now your question, the output frequency and voltage stability is dependent upon the trigger circuit design and stability. If the trigger circuit is designed properly a very close tolerance can be maintained on freq and voltage. Note the schematic, there is no trigger/control circuit drawn. This circuit is dependent upon device final design criteria. If used for stationary power circuit must maintain a stable 50/60 Hz output to trigger tube's just like the modern day DC to AC inverters. If used to run a motor the circuit will have a variable frequency output to trigger tube's. It could even be used to run wide open like DC by eliminating the trigger tubes all together and letting triggers in output tubes be fed by their bottoming resistors" horizontal resistors near bottom of schematic, I believe this is how Moray's worked", during time trigger tube is cutoff output tube trigger voltage must not be allowed to go to zero or output tube will stop putting out because of no potential to work against so bottom end trigger voltage must be in the order of 200 to 300 volts. Of course in the like DC mode it will not be pure, their will always be an underlying sub harmonic of the headwaters frequency in there. It is my belief that Tesla's motor was a convential style 120 volt single phase motor with high voltage insulation +2000v windings. Remember as far as we know no one that we know of has made this work, I has of yet have not, this is just the theory as I see it, I am NOT the worlds authority on this subject but I have never seen any theories along this line and just wanted to share them with everyone in the hope that someone will benefit from it somehow. This stuff is by no means "carved in stone" and open to change. Also things like safety spark gaps and trigger/control circuits were omitted for simplicity of explination, so it is far from complete. As for using it to run a generator for a more stable output shure this would be possible but in the spirit of Tesla I am trying to design mine as simple as possible meaning no moving parts no visible spark to consume electrodes, you can design yours to perform to your specifications for your needs. Like I say I am real sure of the base theory but as for the hardware to get there, there are most likley many diffrent designs that will work. Hope that does it for this time. Thank's for your interest, Rebus.

[wwdotme]

ran across this searching coils. They where talking about ether waves.
and with the coils and tubes looked different. The box with the tubes sticking out
and coils made me think Tesla.
Construction of Keppinger Design Vacuum Tube Style Theremin.

Bill

[RAMSET]

Gents
More for the library!
This could actually be a "monster"!
Here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/271-electric-motor-secrets-49.html

post 1445

Chet

[lamare]

Hi Lamare, I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with your analysis of this circuit. I don't know of any law or rule of electronics that says the current through the top half of the transformer winding has to equal the current through the bottom half of the winding. When Q1 turns on current will flow back to the source through Q1. The top half of that winding is no different than a separate winding that has one end tied to the end of the bottom winding. The current through the top half will be determined by the load on that half just the same as any other transformer winding.

Carroll

Well, one thing is sure: you're absolutely right about this in the case of low frequencies and DC. I mixed things up

Still, the coils are inductively coupled, so the magnetic flux inside is more or less equal. So, under certain conditions the currents going trough the coils are also equal and therefore it should be possible to make use of this. However, I have to give this more thought, that's for sure. With the canary circuit, you also get a problem with the DC component cause by the bias of the transistor.

So, I still think this is an interesting circuit to play with, together with this TROS circuit. And there are more interesting similar circuits to check out and study:

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt3.html

Points to this video also:
YouTube - Free Energy - Power Generator

[citfta]

Don't agree

Hi Lamare, I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with your analysis of this circuit. I don't know of any law or rule of electronics that says the current through the top half of the transformer winding has to equal the current through the bottom half of the winding. When Q1 turns on current will flow back to the source through Q1. The top half of that winding is no different than a separate winding that has one end tied to the end of the bottom winding. The current through the top half will be determined by the load on that half just the same as any other transformer winding.

Carroll

[lamare]

So, the trick is to take that blowing wind from your power source, your voltage source, and divert the part you're not using to do useful work somewhere else. So, you want to use your voltage source to cause charge carriers to move such that they don't end up in your voltage source.

The TROS circuit posted here appears to be just about one of the simplest ways to do just that:

YouTube - TROS - "bemf"

You create a current trough your load that cannot reach your battery. You use the "wind" created by your battery to move charge carriers around that do not reach your battery...

This circuit has some interesting similarities with what Meyer, Puharich and Gray were doing: get a coil into resonance such that you don't have to pay for the current that goes trough the load. This circuit drives the coil into resonance using a different technique, but you still have the load current going *outside* of your driving circuitry!!!!!

And while it looks at first sight that it may be less efficient in terms of COP, as long as the COP is well above 1, who cares???

I found a very interesting circuit over here:
Canary, electronic Doorbell, Singing Canary

This actually comes very close to the schematic schown in the above YT video. Just remove C1 and you have the same circuit in principle, except for the secondary where the loudspeaker is connected to and the loads.

The oscillation is determined by the transformer as well as C4, where C3 is just the feedback loop to steer your transistor with. The interesting detail with this circuit is that the power supply is attached to the central connection of the transformer. Since the upper and lower half of the primary is one coil, the current going trough the coil is equal in the upper and the lower half of the primary. So, virtually all current going trough the coil has only one place to go: C4 and thus cannot reach the power supply and therefore no killing of the dipole.

So, IMHO this is a very interesting circuit to play with. If you leave C1 out, you should be able to grab more power out of the secondary then you need to put in in order to keep the oscillation going. If the theories collected in my article are correct, of course.

[sucahyo]

The short answer is no. the explanition for this can be found in my theory post (#166) the 3rd note at the bottom. I believe Tesla's device was also high voltage output but the motor windings were HV insulation to take the suspected 2000v. I believe Westinghouse was still building things for Tesla and built the motor to Tesla's specs. the HV also explains the reported thick wires, HV insulation. My plan was to use a isolation transformer designed like one the light company uses on the pole by our houses here,(USA), they have a single primary and two secondaries wound on core in opposite directions to achieve the polyphase effect, these coils are wound on an "E" core with primary in center and secondaries on each end. Energize primary with a pair of output tubes and you will get only 110/220v 50 or 60cy,(depending on firing speed of output tubes, the trigger cir must be very stable), from secondaries. This is how I see a stationary setup.

I see. Thanks for the explanation .

Can we us it to run a motor? maybe a special kind of motor? Since I think letting the circuit to run a generator with big flywheel would produce more stable output. The direct output voltage should fluctuate very great isn't it? producing unstable output voltage.

[quantumuppercut]

If there was no logic then why do we have rules now to define the areas that govern energy.

Only you capable of answering that.

[Jbignes5]

I do realize what he is saying but...

I think what lamare saying is that even static potential like inside the leyden jar resides smaller particles that vibrates.

Guys, what if I tell you the ultimate truth doesn't contain logic? All this aether, free energy, science, thoughts don't mean anything.
That's the highest state of truth I've realized. Of course it's pointless for our existance but it is the greatest tool for constructive discussions. Everyone will eventually realized this state as the Buddha, Jesus, Tesla, Eistein, and many other high scientists and spiritual masters.

Anyway, you two and I having the exact thoughts on this matter and I can see it very well.

All static means is that it is not mobile in the sense that it moves from a to b without a touch or a reason to move.

I realize what he was saying but it sounded like to me that he had an issue with the words static potential. It is the results of the sea being divided. When the sea of these much finer particles get divided by larger particles thats when the potential is formed. I do think there are two versions of the particles as I have mentioned before with the Sierpinski triangle. One being hollow(carrier) like and the other being more solid(conductor) form.

Also I highly doubt that there would be no logic to how everything works. If there was no logic then why do we have rules now to define the areas that govern energy. In fact phi would not even be around or associated with the natural process if that was the case. Oh there is logic to it. In fact it is such a simple logic that only a few factors gives our entire spectrum of results that we see. Check out the new Helium ion microscopic pictures and you will see the rules that govern the scale at which we can see today. Static cling is very prevalent at that scale. Geometry is a startling common. Geometric shapes even more common. As we go further into the scale reduction we will see clearer and clearer signs that it gets simpler in design. I doubt we will ever see at the scale that we are talking about with these particles that make up the dielectric sea but I tell you it wont be long before we get to see very close to that. Our surprise will probably come from the fact that we see other worlds at that level and we do see that with even the microscopic life that is there now. Worlds nestled into other worlds based on the scale of what you are viewing.

I agree we have an understanding of this process. They are very close to being the same and I, by no means, am entirely correct. Even though I talk like it is a fact they are but observations of what I can see. With a little kicked in from other sources who dared to stray from the fold of the establishment.