"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

[rickoff]

Hi folks, I know that it has been a long time since I posted updates here, and I'm sorry if I have disappointed anyone who had been following the thread. So as not to repeat a lengthy explanation for my whereabouts, and what I have been doing, please see my current posts from the past couple of days at this link. I will definitely be pursuing a continuation of this thread, and will show in diagrams and video how my Pipe Dream apparatus can be made to continuously rotate using only the forces of magnetic attraction, repulsion, and gravity. Before temporarily stepping out of this thread, I had provided a detailed explanation of the method I would use to achieve continuous rotation, and I often wondered if anyone had followed through on that. I do realize, however, that most people are not going to invest the time and resources into building a device until someone shows how and proves it will work, so my aim is to do exactly that. I will also be continuing my Overbalanced Water Wheel thread soon, but for reasons explained in my above link, I will first devote available time to the Pipe Dream project.

Best regards to all, - Rick

[bsvsb]

Hi Groundhog,

I hope we do get some more interest in these HJ magnets, and yes - the 3 staggered pairs would be optimal.

In case others don't know exactly what we are talking about, here's a cutaway view of Howard Johnson's magnetic motor-generator showing the staggered magnet pairs.


In the above drawing, it may look like a long magnet is paired with a short one, but that isn't so. They are of equal length, and the cutaway shows that they are encased in some non-magnetic material (the reddish-brown color). These arc magnets rotate around the curved bar magnets which are centrally located, and similarly encased. The knurled knob acts as a speed control by moving the curved bar magnets into or out of direct alignment with the arc magnets. To build this particular configuration, one would have to locate the curved bar magnets of the correct dimensions. These curved bars could also be called arc segment magnets, or motor magnets.

You may have noticed, at the bottom of my previous post about these magnets, that the manufacturer is (or has been) supplying these to Dell computer for use in a laser printer. Strange how they just happen to be the same dimensions as the HJ magnets, huh? And even stranger is the fact that their drawing is dated May 11, 2009, which is somewhat after I sent them my drawing and specifications based upon the HJ patent. I noticed that a note at the bottom of the drawing they sent me said that those magnets were to be supplied unmagnetized, so I guess Dell does their own process with them. I'm thinking it may be worth contacting Dell to see if a deal can be worked out directly with them to supply us with some of these. They probably bought these in a much larger quantity than what is shown in the price quote list, so may have bought them for $20 or less per magnet. I'll fire off an inquiry to Dell to see what I can find out about that.

Best 2 U,

Rick

Dear Rick, I'm a newbie here, could you send us a complete plan of this HJ motor? It would be of great help to mankind, our email- [email protected], and thank you very much in advance.

[latino20302030]

Hi Rick

Hi Rick, this is jaime from Ecuador, i am in portland now and just researching about the howards machine and similars, can you contact to me please or let me know how to contact to you, since i saw the last activity of this blog was in 2008.
tks very much for your time
jaime

[rickoff]

Thanks for the reply...I'm such a bird brain sometimes! I read the first page and didn't bother to notice all the others that followed it!

Never post before drinking coffee!

Hi Ryan,

Are you saying that you read page one of the thread, but failed to realize there are 13 more pages? If so, that's okay. We all experience moments like that once in a while.

I notice you mentioned the magniwork motor plans. From what I understand, the people selling these plans are just scamming people and they don't have a clue as to how this could be made to work. You can read more about that, and comment on it, in this thread , and there is also a free plans download available if you want to look at the design.

This thread is strictly for discussion about the Pipe Dream prototype. Rest assured the Pipe Dream project is still very much alive, and that further postings will soon commence. In the meantime, it looks as though you have a lot of reading to do to catch up with the thread posts. I would also suggest that you have a look at the Pipe Dream YouTube videos, and check out the Pipe Dream website, where you can freely download the full step-by-step builder's plans if you would like to replicate the prototype and join the effort.

Best regards,

Rick

[RyanWiley100]

Thanks for the reply...I'm such a bird brain sometimes! I read the first page and didn't bother to notice all the others that followed it!

Never post before drinking coffee!

[abdlquadri]

he is stealing

Are there any new updates on this post? I've been reading up on something called magniwork. An Australian guy is selling blueprints for his DIY magnetic energy machine--apparently he is selling them like crazy. ...guy made the mainstream news. Some say it's just a way to make cash, others say he's selling reliable and accurate info. Anyway, interesting if nothing else.

So....any updates?

Cheers,

Ryan
Solar Power Projects

Check this http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromag.htm

[RyanWiley100]

Is this post still alive?

Are there any new updates on this post? I've been reading up on something called magniwork. An Australian guy is selling blueprints for his DIY magnetic energy machine--apparently he is selling them like crazy. ...guy made the mainstream news. Some say it's just a way to make cash, others say he's selling reliable and accurate info. Anyway, interesting if nothing else.

So....any updates?

Cheers,

Ryan
Solar Power Projects

[rickoff]

Happy New Year Rick

I was wondering if you've been working on your motor at all lately?

Hi Mark,

Yes, I have continued working on the Pipe Dream project, and have some more video results that I will be showing shortly. As explained in my last post here, I did get quite bogged down in repair and maintenance projects both here at home and at my summer cottage over the past months. I still have a few more unfinished projects here at home, but at least I can now devote some real time to the Pipe Dream experiments and modifications once again.

Have you seen the latest on the V gate motor, thought maybe this would get you thinking again about your project.

Yes, I have jumped in to read about it in the thread posted here. I witheld posting any comments, however, until I could do an analysis of what is shown in the video of that setup. Part of that analysis is completed now, and includes an elapsed time reference for each individual rotation, as compared to the total elapsed time from start of rotation to end of rotation. I have that in a Microsoft Excel file, and will make it available for downloading once I attach notes of my observations to it. It took me a while to complete this, as there were 112 rotations to note. What I will say about the Roobert33 V-gate device is that it is very simple, and should work as long as the force required to lift the stator magnets at top and bottom of the device is not greater than the rotational force that is generated my the magnetic interactions. Whether or not the device meets or exceeds that goal remains to be seen unless several replicators are able to establish the veracity of what is shown. Certainly the lifting of the stator magnets requires some amount of force, and even in the best scenario this mechanical lifting will at least slow the rotations, if not stopping them altogether.

I do plan on demonstrating a V track rotor magnet layout on the Pipe Dream apparatus, and will compare an elapsed time test of that to my other rotor magnet layout tests. I do think however, that my current layout (to be shown in my next video) is perhaps even more productive than a V track layout. It has allowed me to increase the speed of rotation throughout the metal plate section, with the last half showing a faster elapsed time than the first half, and the overall time faster than in my previous tests. So unless I find an even better layout, this is probably what I will stick with, at least until I get the mechanical staor carriage lifting mechanism completed and adjusted as best I can.

What makes Roobert33's device a possible self-runner is his use of a moving stator, which is what I have been saying all along is the best method for achieving continuous rotation. I began talking about this in my Moving Stator thread here before starting the Pipe Dream project thread.

I watched your #3 video again and was thinking about a spring assist. Springs on the outside of the stator so when the stator left the last magnet in a group the stator would lift up a little. Or some kind or lever with fulcrum lift.

If you go back to my last post, you will see that I outlined in specific detail the method I am going to initially use to mimic the lifting motion that I accomplished by hand in my video #3. Certainly a spring assist could be part of this action. Basically my idea is to almost totally eliminate the lifting force that is required, so that there is practically no subtraction of rotational force. I feel that my idea of utilizing a counterweight, attached to a vertically sliding stator carriage, is probably the easiest method of achieving this, and could allow for just a half ounce or less of lifting force requirement. Therefore, a spring assist to start the lift could be generated by a relatively weak spring. The mechanical linkage to cause the lift would have to be a rotating cam lever device, and would not be all that different from the Roobert33 setup, though it would be best if it were of a shorter span length.

The other idea that came to mind which I think you experimented with a little was to reduce the force on the front magnet in a group. Either with smaller magnets in the beginning of the group or raising the trailing magnets in the group. Or if there was a way to curve the magnets down at the beginning of the group. Not sure if any of these ideas are plausible just thinking out loud. Good luck to you, I would like to see this thread revived! Mark

My experiments at reducing the repulsive force at the lead end of a rotor magnet group proved to me that this is not the way to go. If you reduce the force at the first magnet, or the first few magnets, then the stator sees the approach of the first strong rotor magnet as the repulsion factor. In order to achieve continued movement, the attraction and repulsion forces within a group need to be in balance. Of course this method requires that the stator magnet must be dropped down towards, and within, each of the rotor magnet groups, but I don't think that will be a problem. The stator will weigh more than the counterweight, so will want to fall once the cam action ends, and the magnetic attraction force will assist in pulling the stator closer to the rotor magnet groups. As I mentioned in video #3, it is very difficult to maintain a close relationship between the stator and rotor magnets because the attraction force is so strong that you can easily reach a point of no return, where you cannot prevent the stator magnet from slamming into the rotor magnet group if holding it by hand. Mechanically, with appropriate stops like I currently have set up on my slider bar, that of course will not be a problem and the rotation will be visibly much stronger than witnessed in video #3.

Rick

[Mark]

Happy New Year Rick

I was wondering if you've been working on your motor at all lately? Have you seen the latest on the V gate motor, thought maybe this would get you thinking again about your project. I watched your #3 video again and was thinking about a spring assist. Springs on the outside of the stator so when the stator left the last magnet in a group the stator would lift up a little. Or some kind or lever with fulcrum lift. The other idea that came to mind which I think you experimented with a little was to reduce the force on the front magnet in a group. Either with smaller magnets in the beginning of the group or raising the trailing magnets in the group. Or if there was a way to curve the magnets down at the beginning of the group. Not sure if any of these ideas are plausible just thinking out loud. Good luck to you, I would like to see this thread revived!

Mark

[rickoff]

Hi Gene,

I haven't been able to get to those tests yet, as I have been flat out lately working on repair projects at my summer cottage property (scraping, painting, replacing old siding, reglazing old windows, repairing weather damaged roof section of boat house, and fighting carpenter ant inferstations in some of the outbuildings). Gotta keep at that stuff while the weather is warm, which won't be for much longer here in Maine. So, the Pipe Dream project has been set on the back burner lately, so to speak. I wish I could keep at it on a daily basis, but realistically must set priorities. I do think about the project daily, though, and after I complete a few more magnet layout tests I believe that I have the best solution to the moving stator idea close at hand. Actually, it reverts back to mimicking the up-down motion of a moving stator that I demonstrated in Pipe Dream video #3, which can be seen here: YouTube - Video #3, "Rick's Pipe Dream" Magnetic Motor - Generator

Start watching at 5:18 elapsed time to see this method rotating the wheel. Note that my hand movements are actually exaggerated well beyond what is required to start and maintain rotation, and that the rotation would be much more powerful if I allowed the stator magnet to move closer to the rotor magnets, but as I note in the video, there is a "point of no return" where the stator magnet will slam down onto the rotor magnets when held by hand. By limiting the travel with a mechanical holding device, I can come within about 3/4 of an inch of the rotor magnets and greatly increase the rotational power. You will also note that this method does not use alternating polarity rotor magnet groups, which necessitates quickly moving the stator into repulsion mode at the tail end of each magnet group. Instead, this method allows the stator to freely coast past the tail end of each group and on through the void space to the next group. If not moved upwards as the next group approaches, you run into the brick wall effect due to repulsion at that point, but the relatively wide space between each of the 4 magnet groups should allow ample time for the lift to occur. I may even choose to only use 3 magnet groups, which would allow for an even longer lift time. A vertical lift of around 2 inches should do the trick, allowing the stator to pass over the lead end of the approaching rotor magnet group, after which the stator magnet can be dropped down and become interactively engaged with the group. A simple cam and lever arrangement can be used to accomplish the lift, and the drop would be automatic due to attraction effect which takes over after the lead in repulsion is overcome. I could even use the repulsion effect at the lead end of the rotor magnet group to assist in lifting the stator magnet after it has been partially raised. The energy required to lift the stator must come from the rotating wheel, of course, but can be kept to a bare minimum of next to nothing. My idea for accomplishing that is to mount my slider bar vertically, rather than the current horizontal mounting, and to use at least two guide mechanisms to keep the stator positioned correctly while in motion. At the upper end of the slider rail I will fasten a pulley. A wire attached to the movable stator mount, and draped over the pulley, will be connected to a counterweight of sufficient weight to nearly produce all the force required to raise the stator, so that the wheel is hardly robbed of any rotational force at all. A half ounce or less of force, created by the cam and lever device should be well within reason, since there is no attraction force counteracting the lift when between rotor magnet groups. Can you visualize exactly what I am proposing, after viewing the video? I would think probably so, and it is a relatively simple solution to implement. I see this method as showing the greatest promise for achieving a self running moving stator magnet motor in the shortest possible time frame. I still believe that using alternating polarity rotor magnet groups, and quickly moving the stator into repulsion at the tail end of the magnet groups would offer even greater speed and power, but the method of moving the stator then becomes far more problematical and time consuming to work out, so I'll save that for later on. I will begin working on some drawings of the new concept and post them when ready, but probably won't be able to demonstrate the actual mechanisms on video until October or later, as there is still much work to be done both at the cottage and here at home, and being retired I really can't afford to pay others to do the work. Sorry that delays the progress on the prototype, but that's just reality. As soon as I have time, I will be posting another video or two showing a couple of additional magnet layouts I have experimented with. I actually have been successful now at achieving a faster elapsed time through the second half of a rotor magnet layout, something that was not achieved in earlier shown tests. I sincerely believe that the combination of increasing speed throughout the rotor magnet group, and easily moving the stator magnet up and down via purely mechanical means should prove to be very promising.

My best to you, and to all readers,

Rick

[gene gene]

Hi Rick, I have been waiting to here results of tests with SS shield & also with extra stator magnet in place. Any news?
Best of luck to you my friend,
Gene
p.s. I wonder what is in the glove box of my old van?

[rickoff]

New tests completed

Hi folks,

Video #41 is now ready for viewing at this link: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

This video shows results and comparisons of 4-plate, 3-plate, 2-plate, and 1-plate configurations. With all this data in hand, I have decided to concentrate on just one plate to see if I can arrange an optimum layout that will further reduce overall elapsed time, as well as to give me an acceleration through the second magnet group. Then I will be trying some additional experiments geared towards reducing the reverse reattraction at the tail end, and for that matter through the two magnet groups as well. One such method, which I mentioned earlier, will be to hang a stainless steel shield down behind the stator so that it nearly touches the tops of the rotor magnets. This should have a beneficial result of shielding the rotor magnets that have already passed by the stator, and reduce the reattraction effect. Another method, which I believe I also mentioned earlier, is employment of a second, and perhaps a third stator. The hard drive magnet that I use for my stator is mounted on what appears to be a 1/4 inch thick stainless steel plate, which I have mounted to the clear polycarbonate pivot mount. The stainless steel is non-magnetic, and I can lay one of my rotor magnets on top of it and there is barely any attraction. A paper clip will fall right off. So I'm thinking that if I suspend another one of these stator magnets either ahead of, or behind the current one, and place it at an angle so that the stainless steel backing is facing the oncoming rotor magnets, then those rotor magnets will not be opposed as they approach. The attraction to the other stator magnet, plus flywheel momentum, should keep the rotor magnets moving until they pass by the 2nd stator's stainless steel backing, at which time the second stator will propel the rotor magnets further ahead with repulsion force. Therefore, when the end of the plate is reached, the repulsion effect of the second stator will overcome the reverse attraction to the first stator, and accelerate the rotor as the last magnets move away from the stators. I know - sounds too easy, doesn't it? But anything simple, and sounding practical, is definitely worth trying. If this can work then there will be acceleration as the plate engages the stators, and acceleration as it leaves the stators, which would be ideal. Time will tell.

Oh, and I found my 16 tooth ratcheting bike wheel sprocket yesterday in the glove box of my truck. I looked everywhere for it, and had thought it must have been stolen. I guess that shows how often I dig around in my glovebox. Anyways, I plan to attach it to the bike wheel hub, and will affix it to remain stationary. That way, it will allow the wheel to move in the desired direction, but will stop the wheel quickly if reverse attraction is encountered. And that will help protect my mini lever switches from damage.

Best to all,

Rick

[rickoff]

Results of Test #6

I populated plate #4 with magnets, and ran an elapsed time test. The results were not at all good, which I pretty much expected. In my experience, any time that you lay out an unbroken string of magnets more than half way around the rotor, the performance suffers greatly, and this was no exception. Here are the results, compared to the previous test #5 of just the plate addition:



As you can see, rotation halted at the end of the third magnet group. The gap time for section 1, which in all previous tests had been around 0.68 to 0.70, more than doubled, and became the slowest group. Quite a reversal, huh? I actually had 8 magnet groups for this test, but since it never progressed past the third group I had to calculate the figures for the percentage fields. Needless to say, the prototype definitely doesn't like this arrangement!

I'll be removing plate #4, and also plate #3, because I want to run a test on just the first two plates and magnets to see if the gap times through those 4 magnet groups will be faster than they were in the 6 group arrangement. If so, then there is no need for a third inline plate. In fact, there may even be no need for a second plate, so I will also test just a single plate to see the difference. The faster I can go through the plate or plates, the more momentum the flywheel will have, and that is important when attempting to go beyond the tail end of the plates. So I plan to first concentrate on a layout that will give the quickest possible elapsed time, and then I'll move on to solving the reverse attraction at the tail end. I have several ideas in mind to accomplish that.

Best to all,

Rick

[rickoff]

Video #40 completed

Video #40 is ready for viewing at this link:
YouTube - Video #40, "Rick's Pipe Dream" Magnetic Motor-Generator This video shows the final results of the tweakings, and then I go on to add the new metal arc plate and do a test on that without magnets added. The result was interesting. It did result in some assistance to magnet group #6, but it also slowed the gap times of groups 2 through 5. It is probably due to either the magnetic interactions moving a heavier flywheel, or the added weight burden on the axle bearings, or maybe both. In any case, it resulted in a slower elapsed time. I ran a 5 test comparison on the plate to average out the readings, and here are the results:

The top result is the test done in the video, the first of the 5-test comparisons, and the lower results are the averages of the 5 tests.



Now I'm adding the magnets to the plate for the next test. At first I will add a standard layout and test that before I do any tweakings. Each plate accommodates two magnet groups, so there will now be 8 groups total. Hopefully I will still be able to achieve good throughput and maintain or improve upon the 5.25 second elapsed time shown in my last post. If I can't, then this will be a signal that I should allow the break point to occur at the end of the third plate. In that case, I would move the 4th plate to a new location, leaving a gap of a few inches in between the third and fourth plates, and when completed there would be two arc sections on the rotor with two equal spaced gaps between the ends.

Best 2 all,

Rick

[rickoff]

Test results after some tweaking