"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

[rickoff]

You may want to run it straight up and down instead of the wheel staying flat which would be a side load on one side of the bearing it was not designed for, for continuous use. Other than that you could used 50 -75 lbs I would think with no problems.

Yes, that's precisely why I haven't thought about adding too much weight at this time, while I'm running horizontally. I need to keep it horizontal for the timed tests of the magnet layouts. Later on I will definitely try a vertical operation, and of course the test stand can be oriented in three different vertical positions.

Best 2 U,

Rick

[1NRG24Seven]

And I was small and skinny for my age, many kids were twice my size or more riding bikes, so if you want a 50 lb flywheel go for it, don't really see any problem with that other than attachment to rim. You may want to run it straight up and down instead of the wheel staying flat which would be a side load on one side of the bearing it was not designed for, for continuous use. Other than that you could used 50 -75 lbs I would think with no problems.


Good Day!!
24

[1NRG24Seven]

bikes are disigned for people over 100 pounds, I was 98 lbs in the 6th grade so divide that by two wheels and that is about 50lbs. So I really doubt 50lbs would stress the bearings.

[Shamus]

Hi Rick,

Now that you've gone into this mode of testing I'm really interested to see what comes of it. While it is true that you can simulate the motion of the stator this way, when you get right down to it there are things in this kind of experimentation that you can't, such as a rapid pole shift. At any rate I think you're very close to success with either approach and it will be interesting to see which is successful first.

And of course, all of this gets me thinking about a very short blurb that Tom Bearden makes in the Howard Johnson EFTV DVD about a lazy suzan that Howard (IIRC) brought to him that had *one* magnet on it and another magnet assembly that the edge of it went through. He said that he watched it go around and around for about an hour and that very soon after that the thing was stolen out of his house. All that to say (assuming that Mr. Bearden is telling the truth) that it seems that making permanent magnets do work like this is a very real possibility. Unfortunately for me, all my experimenting has been put on hold for the near future so I won't be able to investigate any of this with you. But I will be watching your experiments with great interest.

EDIT: I found a still from that excerpt, for those interested. The segment starts about 1 hour 15 minutes in.

[rickoff]

Hi Rick,

I am curious why you are doing all these experiments without using the MoStat as it was designed.... a Moving Stator?

All your recent videos have the Stator fixed aboved the magnets?

Just curious....

Hopes and Dreams....

Tj

Hi Tj,

The answer is in post #362. Just figured I'd do some non-MOSTAT-related experiments while working out the actual methods for the magnetic repulsion movements of the slider carriage. Also, when I do complete the slider repulsion systems, I'd like to try them out on this side of the wheel, as it will give me a lot more options. And I've been wanting to add the flywheel back on, to take advantage of the momentum it adds. The steel plates, when all the way around, are going to double the weight of the flywheel to 8 pounds, and I'm certain that is going to help. Even the 27 ounces of steel plate now seen on the flywheel seems to me to account for improved performance. I'd prefer to have an even heavier flywheel, maybe 50 pounds or more, but that would be stressing the structure and bearings of this bike wheel way too much. At some point I will build an even larger, spoked, birch plywood rotor with a heavy duty axle shaft and some really good bearings, and I'll sock the weight to it. Once you get the force of that weight moving, and the heavier it is, the greater the chance that forward momentum will easily overcome any anti-rotational reattraction (those so-called "sticky" points).

While I am doing the current series of experiments, I will try unlocking the stator, and allow it to automatically seek the path of strongest attraction. This shouldn't be a problem, because all interactions are currently in attraction mode. It will be interesting to see if the timed test with the stator locked, versus a free stator, shows a difference.

One thought that came to mind, while thinking of a free to pivot stator test, is that the rotor magnets could in fact be laid out to make the pivoting stator swerve left or right whenever desired, and swerve quickly at that. Therefore, it would be possible to build a double rotor setup, with the rotors spaced maybe 8 inches apart, and use the upper rotor magnets to move a second stator mounted at the top end of the stator pivot rod. The upper stator, when moved at the desired timing points, would of course move the lower stator the same amount. Of course you would use stronger rotor magnets at the top end, at least at the preferred timing points, or perhaps use repulsion at one side of the stator and attraction at the other end. Sounds reasonable, doesn't it? And if I can work out an attraction layout that gives full 360 degree rotation, I can use that layout for the upper rotor while using four or five separated groups of 8 to 10 magnets on the lower stator. To take advantage of repulsion, there must be a separation between groups, like there was on the bike wheel rim.

Well, I'm always thinking five steps ahead, and that's okay, but I will have to leave that other stuff for a bit later. For now, it is on to the layout tests. If you, or anyone else would like to jump ahead with any of these ideas then by all means go for it.

Best regards,

Rick

[tjnlsn255]

Curious about MoStat?

Hi Rick,

I am curious why you are doing all these experiments without using the MoStat as it was designed.... a Moving Stator?

All your recent videos have the Stator fixed aboved the magnets?

Just curious....

Hopes and Dreams....

Tj

[rickoff]

A Solution For The Testing Timer

As I mentioned earlier, I want to set up some precise testing standards so that I can verify if a rotor magnet layout change is beneficial or detrimental. Leaving it up to the eye, or guesswork, just won't do. I figure that the best way to make an accurate determination is to test the time that it takes to complete a start/stop run, starting from the point where the rotor begins to move, and ending at the point where the rotation stops, just before reversing direction. I have given this much thought, and have come up with what I consider to be a splendid solution. I found a free software download called XNOTE STOPWATCH that works great, and it can be configured to be triggered on and off (start/stop) using a switch connected to an open COM port on the computer. Here's how the connection is made at the COM port, and below that you see the timer.


The current reading on the timer is 9 and 42/100 seconds, and that represents the elapsed time of the first layout test as shown in video #32. To get this reading, I watched the video and clicked the Start/Stop at the appropriate times. What I will be doing from now on, though, is to mount a mini lever switch, probably to my currently unused adjustable PVC stator arm, and bring this switch in close to the flywheel edge, where I will lock it into place. Then I will simply insert a round head screw into the edge of the flywheel, at both the start and stop locations, that will gently bump the lever switch to activate it. The lever switch will be wired to the 9-pin COM connector at pins 7 and 8. And that's it!

You can download XNOTE STOPWATCH at: http://www.stopwatch-timer.com/xntimer.exe

The only cost to this superb solution is the mini switch. I found one at my local Radio Shack store (part number 275-0016) for $2.99, though I may use an even smaller one that requires even less lever force to activate it. To make the connection at the COM port, I'll wire the switch into a 9-pin COM cable connector that I can simply plug in when I want to use it. I'm pretty sure I have an old 9-pin cable kicking around here somewhere.

It would really be sweet if I could include the timer readout within each video test, and I suppose I could do that by placing a monitor next to the prototype where the timer can be seen.

The other element of the start/stop tests will be a fixture to lock and unlock the flywheel at the starting position, so that I will always be starting at precisely the same place, and I can easily do this by drilling through one of the PVC uprights, and into the flywheel edge, so that I can insert or withdraw an aluminum rod. Simple, but practical.

So these are the next steps to complete, and I should be able to do these things by tomorrow. Then I'll post a new video showing a timed test of the new and improved rotor magnet layout. Can hardly wait! I'm having a lot of fun with this.

Rick

[1NRG24Seven]

While watching all these videos it gives one a sense of actually working with the device, except that we can not feel the forces, which would certainly give us more information if we could. However we can still see to a certain extent with video the interactions playing out. One thing if I had your device in front of me I would like to try is to angle the magnets so one pole of each magnet is out of timing with the stator magnet as it passes overhead...so one pole is always leading the other. This would in my mind make each magnet group be as two and serve to keep a pulling effect moving in a constant stream. Also I would like to try using only one layer of magnets thereby doubling the amount of magnets i could place around the circumference of the outer ring and create a situation where you have a like one long magnet almost completely around the circumference with the end break at only one spot instead of several. This way the wheel could pick up enough speed to overcome that one break. This may or may not be possible as again I am not the one interacting with the device and Rick would certainly be the only one who would know as he is hands on with it. But try and angle the magnets in a single instead of double layer and line them up to create one long magnet all pulling the stator into themselves or repealing all.

24

[rickoff]

Hey Rick, I am still here watching all the videos and keeping track of your successes.I know Mylow's motor was probably rigged by him or someones else to sidetrack whatever setup was originally there, but I think his magnetic motor still has potential.Maybe you should look again at his setup,I know I have.He was probably used as a pawn to discredit all magnetic motor attempts,but his setup was remarkably close to what Howard Johnson did.With some rearraging and or reconfiguring of the stator magnet,his setup would work. Yours is progressing to the point of eliminating the dreaded sticky point or opposite polarity force so evident in most magnetic motors.I wish you luck in finding the correct geometry in eliminating these conditions.Once the correct geometry is found, any magnetic motor setup will work.I have come close on several occasions with magnetic motors,but could not quite close the loop.Good luck. Stealth

Thanks for the encouragement, and good luck wishes, Stealth. I have a lot of layouts and tests in mind, and will keep plugging away at this. I would encourage anyone to think about possible layouts for future tests, and to submit a drawing for consideration.

Best wishes,

Rick

[rickoff]

So if I am following what you are doing in your last shot you are advancing up to the point where there is attraction of the magnet and then letting go. This is quite different than what I have seen with per say Howard Johnsons device with the train on the rails there seems to be a big fight of alignment with the train but yours setup is making good ground... They key is breaking free and I am sure you are working out that final detail.


When I look at your top magnet I think of the super secret steal planes, or a manta ray

Anyhow thanks for sharing Rick

Hi Mart,

Yes, this setup is always in attraction mode, be it either full attraction or reduced attraction, depending on the placements of the rotor magnets. The reduced attraction magnets probably aren't the best placements, though. I tried out another layout last night with no reduced attraction placements, and was able to shave my elapsed time (from the starting point to the end-point where rotation stops) by 30 percent, and the rotation was more even. I'll show that in the next video. It would be nice to also get some repulsion acceleration, but that's something I'll work on later. Another thing that might help could be a stainless steel shield hanging down behind the stator magnet, and almost touching the rotor magnets. This could greatly reduce reattraction to magnets that have just passed the stator, allowing an increase in forward momentum. It would create some air drag at the shield, but I think that would be minimal compared to the possible gain in momentum.

I really like this new setup, as it will allow a myriad of new experiments.

And yes, that hard drive stator magnet really does look a lot like a stealth aircraft "flying" over the rotor magnets.

Best 2 U,

Rick

[rickoff]

I have downloaded all your videos upto the last three..there are a few numbers in the series that are missing, I assume you must have deleted them for one reason or another. I look forward to the last three. Thanx Rick 24

Hi 24,

No none of the videos have been removed. Use this link to see clickable thumbnail views of all 32 videos, and bookmark this for future reference:

YouTube - TheRickoff's Channel

[theremart]

Progress...

So if I am following what you are doing in your last shot you are advancing up to the point where there is attraction of the magnet and then letting go. This is quite different than what I have seen with per say Howard Johnsons device with the train on the rails there seems to be a big fight of alignment with the train but yours setup is making good ground... They key is breaking free and I am sure you are working out that final detail.


When I look at your top magnet I think of the super secret steal planes, or a manta ray

Anyhow thanks for sharing Rick

[1NRG24Seven]

I have downloaded all your videos upto the last three..there are a few numbers in the series that are missing, I assume you must have deleted them for one reason or another. I look forward to the last three. Thanx Rick

24

[rickoff]

MY Man!!

You think the loop is going to make it?

Hi Matt,

I do think there is little question that I can go at least 360 degrees with this layout. If you watch the demo in Video #32 closely, you should see that there is acceleration into each group of 7 magnets, and a slight slowing near the end of each group. What's important here is that the amount of acceleration and slowing for each group appears to be practically identical. In other words, the acceleration effects do not decrease as you add more magnet groups. Now here's what I believe is going on:

I believe it is the "reduced attraction" placements that are slowing the movement, since half way between a full attraction magnet and a reduced attraction magnet the stator will of course be more strongly attracted to the full attraction magnet that has just gone by. There is still some attraction to the reduced attraction magnets, though, and this allows the rotor to keep moving forward with enough flywheel momentum to overcome the reattraction and rotation reversal that would otherwise occur if the reduced attraction magnets were removed altogether from the layout, leaving a space in between groups. I think that reversing the polarity of the second reduced attraction magnet of each group also plays a part in this. You will notice, in the below photo, that the stator has just "flown over" the two reduced attraction magnets (rotor is moving counter clockwise), and you will also notice that the two reduced attraction magnets overlap one another about 50 percent, and I think this may be tricking the stator into seeing an endpoint to each group, rather than the continuation layout that exists.

Another thing I have noticed is that if I attempt to start rotation from the opposite end of the layout, rotation only continues up until about the end of the second steel plate, and not making it to the start of the third. At first thought that seems somewhat illogical, because the rotor magnet layout, even while appearing to be somewhat chaotic, is actually symmetrical. Therefore, the stator should see the layout the same way in either direction - or should it not? I think the answer to that is that the stator obviously does not see the same thing either way, and I believe the reason for this is the curvature of the stator magnet. With a straight bar magnet used as the stator, I believe you would get the same result in either direction. With the curved stator magnet, it seems that the stator prefers one direction of rotation over another. Looking down on the stator magnet, as in the video, you can almost imagine that the stator is a plane flying over the magnets below it, as shown below.



The nose of the "plane" (at top of photo) points the way forward, and the magnet curvature is greatest at the nose. As a result, the attraction to an approaching rotor magnet gradually, and then rapidly, increases as the nose passes and a "wing" of the plane draws nearer the rotor magnet. I believe this is what causes a better acceleration effect than is seen if the "plane" is flying backwards. Does that make sense? In any case, this layout does seem to be working. I doubt that I have hit on the "perfect" layout on the first try, though, and think there may still be room for improvement. While the rotation does not appear to have an accumulative slow down, it also does not appear to accumulatively accelerate. So my next experiments will be to determine if it is possible to make any minor change in the layout that would at least slightly reduce the slowing effect near the end of each group. The results of tests may not be all that perceptible to the eye, as only a minimal reduction of slowing is needed now to continually increase rotor acceleration. Every little bit of added acceleration, or reduced slowing, will result in accumulative speed gain.

To conduct some serious tests, to determine if a change is actually beneficial, I can't just rely on my eyes (which aren't so good any more anyways), so I think that I will need to do 2 things:

1. I am going to drill a hole through the PVC upright closest to the starting point, and at a level centering on the thickness of the birch flywheel. I will also bore about 1/4 inch into the flywheel. Then I can insert an aluminum rod through the upright and into the flywheel to lock the starting position, so that I will always be starting from the same precise point whenever I pull the rod out.
2. I need to install an automatic timing counter that will be triggered on and off at some point near the beginning and end of the forward rotor movement. Perhaps this could be done either using microswitches mounted to the edge of the flywheel, or using optical sensing, to trigger on and off a 555 timer connected with a digital counter. If I can set this counter up to display 100ths, or 1000ths of a second, this will be a valuable aid in determining exactly how much a change in the magnet layout is going to benefit or detract from the rotation. Any suggestions on the easiest and least costly way for setting this up, while maintaining accuracy, are welcomed.

I also need to make up some more plates, and order more magnets so that I can expand the layout after doing these preliminary timing tests. Oh, and another thing - the rotor magnets are so strongly attracted to the metal plates that it is difficult to move them without scratching up the painted surface. To avoid future scratching, I am going to install a layer of .010 inch thickness clear plastic sheeting to cover the plates. I picked up a 12 inch by 48 inch sheet of the plastic cut from a roll that I found at a local sewing and crafts shop. This will end the paint scratching problem, and may also make it easier to slide the magnets into position. So I will need to take all the magnets off the plates to do this, and my plan is to first trace around each magnet with a pencil to mark their current locations on the plates. Then I will remove the magnets, and remove the plates, position each plate on the plastic sheet as a template, and cut around them. Then I'll lay the plastic on top of each plate and mark the plastic with a felt tip pen to copy the magnet outlines drawn on the plates. That way I will have a permanent record of the exact magnet placement that I have now, and I can then refinish the paint job on the plates. When I lay the plastic back down over the refinished plates, I'll know exactly where I want to place the magnets, and when I try out different subtle changes I can always return quickly to the same layout if a change is not beneficial.

Things are definitely looking up.


Rick

[Matthew Jones]

MY Man!!

You think the loop is going to make it?

If it breaks once you close the loop I gotta trick for reseting the loop midstream. May work on your setup.

Anxiously waiting.

Matt