Big Joule Theif

[shlodo]

Pulses Out of Phase

shlodo---
The Flip Flop that I made seems to draw about what the CMOS 555 does. I may be a reinventing of the wheel here. Your two coil design should work and I might be able to use that idea with the flip flop circuit (or 555) to alternate between the third HV coil to drive the CFL and the second coil for charging.

I like the idea of the 2 coils being out of phase. Some of Bedini's motors have an odd number of magnets and even number of coils so that they fire at different times, creating and catching more of the radiant.
Could be onto something here!

Man i gotta try the Fuji circuit!

-shlodo

EDIT - Just watched Bedini talking about multiple coils. He said to add coils in phase the radiant spike is ADDitive. So if u want a bigger spike then put them in phase.. If the coils are firing out of phase then u get more spikes but the spikes aren't additive to make a bigger spike

[slayer007]

I dont know if this would work or not but I would like to try this on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.

I all ready posed this in the Leedskalnin/Tesla Unipolar Generator thread.
But I think it could also work with a JT toroid.

I would like to have to coils on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.
Pulse the Leedskalnin coils then start the JT.

I would like to see if it has any effect on the JT when it passes through the Leedskalnin coils.

I all ready posted this video in the Leedskalnin/Tesla thread but I will post it here also here is the video.

YouTube - Leedskalnin Coils #2

[shlodo]

Overunity?!??!? COP of 12.27!

I dont know if this would work or not but I would like to try this on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.

I all ready posed this in the Leedskalnin/Tesla Unipolar Generator thread.
But I think it could also work with a JT toroid.

I would like to have to coils on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.
Pulse the Leedskalnin coils then start the JT.

I would like to see if it has any effect on the JT when it passes through the Leedskalnin coils.

I all ready posted this video in the Leedskalnin/Tesla thread but I will post it here also here is the video.

YouTube - Leedskalnin Coils #2

Great stuff Slayer007 - very interesting, look foreward to see where u take this


Ive been concentrating lately on pure charging. Again Im getting "seemingly" Overunity results! Im hoping to eventually use a double coil design to get better charging.
In this test I used 4xAA's which were Nimh rechargeables. The charge batteries were 4xAA's of standard Alkaline batteries. And yes Alkalines can recharge using the JT.

Heres the Data:

During the whole test the JT consumed 290mA. I recorded the voltage every so often and then i would turn off the circuit for about 30sec to do a quick load test with a 12V motor which consumes 500mA. I recorded and compared the holding voltage under this 500mA load to see how much energy was going into the batteries. I repeated this procedure exactly the same way for each data point

Before the test:
Run=5.16V
Charge=4.53V
Holding Voltage under Load=4.7V

After 1 minute of Charging:
Run=5.14V
Charge=5.25V
Holding Voltage under Load=4.8V

After 18 minutes of Charging
Run=4.88V
Charge=5.64V
Holding Voltage under Load=5.15

After 1 hour 24 minutes of Charging
Run=4.78V
Charge=6.15V
Holding Voltage under Load=5.63V >>> Stop

After 3 hours of Resting
Run=5.05V
Charge=5.88V
Holding Voltage under Load=5.55V

Conclusions:
It seems that the JT has lost 0.11V on the run but increased the voltage in the charge by 1.35V

Voltage Lost=0.11V
Voltage Gained=1.35V
Increase Under Load=0.85V
Thats a COP of 12.27 !!

-shlodo

[shlodo]

High Voltage is better at charging than current

Following on from previous post.....

One other thing I might note is that I have measured the Current Output. Usually it is half of what I am consuming on the front end. In the experiment above the output current was 140mA while consumption was 290mA.

What i find interesting is that we can get a COP>12 with very little current going into the charge batteries. The results do not reflect the current i measured.
Clearly the High Voltage Radiant spikes (in the hundreds of volts) is what is charging the battery and NOT the current coming out of the JT

I encourage those of u who have built Joule Thiefs to do some proper battery charging tests.. I would love to have someone to compare data with...

-shlodo

[lanenal]

shlodo:

You are definitely heading toward the right direction, but I would like to give you some advice. Since the run and charge batteries are not of the same type, it is not very reliable to draw conclusions yet -- and even if they are of the same type, you may not draw convincing conclusions directly on voltage changes. It is better to do load tests to find out the relationship between the voltage change and the work output. For example, you can repeat your tests to find out the relationship between Energy output (in joules or Watt*Hours) and rest voltages (V0, V1), which are the initial and the final voltages. So, once you got an empirical function of Output(V0, V1), then you can easily calculate the COP. I don't know, maybe if you search on the net, you might find something ready for use.

Good luck!

lanenal

Edit:

Here is a reference about Lead=acid batteries:
Charging the lead-acid battery

Following on from previous post.....

One other thing I might note is that I have measured the Current Output. Usually it is half of what I am consuming on the front end. In the experiment above the output current was 140mA while consumption was 290mA.

What i find interesting is that we can get a COP>12 with very little current going into the charge batteries. The results do not reflect the current i measured.
Clearly the High Voltage Radiant spikes (in the hundreds of volts) is what is charging the battery and NOT the current coming out of the JT

I encourage those of u who have built Joule Thiefs to do some proper battery charging tests.. I would love to have someone to compare data with...

-shlodo

[redeagle]

Following on from previous post.....

One other thing I might note is that I have measured the Current Output. Usually it is half of what I am consuming on the front end. In the experiment above the output current was 140mA while consumption was 290mA.

What i find interesting is that we can get a COP>12 with very little current going into the charge batteries. The results do not reflect the current i measured.
Clearly the High Voltage Radiant spikes (in the hundreds of volts) is what is charging the battery and NOT the current coming out of the JT

I encourage those of u who have built Joule Thiefs to do some proper battery charging tests.. I would love to have someone to compare data with...

-shlodo

It's a little of both actually. Charging Lead battery is a function of both volts and amps. What the goal here is to pump a high voltage spike through the battery that switches off before the water capacitor in the battery reaches the max and starts electrolysis. Hence is why they say it's just a "signal" charging the battery. The battery has no choice to charge or not because the HV spike has already transformed the lead plates and removed some lead from solution back to the plates.

The trick is to engineer effects not causes. Charging batteries by moving lead ions instead of moving electrons only is a much more efficient method of charging and the spikes have been said to create a crystalized surface on the face of the lead plates which increases capacity.

Other batteries have different effects and need to be charged differently.

Matt

[redeagle]

Hello everyone.
I am new to this forum.I have came across something I wish to share.and hope somebody else can give me an ideal what is happening with this My setup Is a 555 timer running a 2n3055 trans,this is hooked to a joule thief coil,I have this running to another 2n3055 transistor,this is then hooked to another joule thief coil,this feeds into an automotive ing coil.which I have running a CFL light and charging a 2nd Battery.These are my findings sofar:Time 9:35 am Source 12.33 volts.... Charge 14.55 V....

Time 1:35 PM...Source 12.38 volts... Charge 14.68 volts.

Any Ideals....Tec

If these are 12v batteries you are using you might want to switched them soon...if you over charged them they will die especially if they are gel cells. once the gell dries out it's gone

[shlodo]

shlodo:

You are definitely heading toward the right direction, but I would like to give you some advice. Since the run and charge batteries are not of the same type, it is not very reliable to draw conclusions yet -- and even if they are of the same type, you may not draw convincing conclusions directly on voltage changes. It is better to do load tests to find out the relationship between the voltage change and the work output. For example, you can repeat your tests to find out the relationship between Energy output (in joules or Watt*Hours) and rest voltages (V0, V1), which are the initial and the final voltages. So, once you got an empirical function of Output(V0, V1), then you can easily calculate the COP. I don't know, maybe if you search on the net, you might find something ready for use.

Good luck!

lanenal

Edit:

Here is a reference about Lead=acid batteries:
Charging the lead-acid battery

@lanenal
You are quite right, I couldnt believe I overlooked that! I realised not long after I made the post. But I have done many tests and they have all been positive. I will have to repeat the test with the same batteries...
I like your idea of finding emperical functions between V0 and V1. Ill have to look into it. Ive been trying to come up with a proper testing method.
I noticed Bedini uses a battery capacity meter which measures in % how many amp hours are in the batteries.
I saw a simple one at Jaycar.com.au for cheap too, but it reads in increments - 70-80%, 80-90% etc.. which I thought wasnt very accurate.

-Has anyone come across these??
-Can anyone out there suggest a proper testing method to compare the work we can do with the charge battery vs run battery??
-To accurately measure current consumed would i need to use a true RMS meter?

Any help would be much appreciated

@Redeagle
I am noticing a definite change taking place in the batteries that im charging with the Potential charge. As I stated before, there is still some current coming out the back end. But I could use a larger pot to limit it.

"The trick is to engineer effects not causes. Charging batteries by moving lead ions instead of moving electrons only is a much more efficient method of charging and the spikes have been said to create a crystalized surface on the face of the lead plates which increases capacity." - Redeagle

That's interesting. Im noticing an inertia effect of the lead ions as you say. Its kind of like the battery keeps charging after u switch it off. Like it takes a while for them to be able to stop and flow the other way... anyway I heard Bedini talking about something like that once i dunno if its right..

@Tectalabyss
I like your setup, its pretty ambitious! Running a 555 > JT > JT > Ignition Coil > CFL + Charge! lol! Sounds like something Lidmotor would do! Its cool seeing people try seemingly "crazy" combinations.
Im wondering about your 555 timer.. Is it to reduce the on time of the CFL to reduce power? If you're interested in pure charging I would remove it.. But if its for a light source I can see why
Also, your results show an increase in the Source battery. Is this correct?
What kind of batteries are u using?

-shlodo

[Xenomorph]

@Shlodo,
i can only confirm what Lanelal said,
you have to measure the actual work output of the batteries (Rc discharge etc.) to make an accurate statement about the actual charge in the batteries.
Experimenting with a Tesla Switch my batteries show an average 1.2 V increase resting overnight, which i consider a ghost charge. Under load they will tend to return to the previous voltage. Cold charging is more diffuse than hot charging.
I have come to the conclusion that pure voltage measurements on batteries can in some cases be insufficient and misleading especially in regards to COP determinations.

[redeagle]

@shlodo---don't forget that LABs also have a water cap effect. IF the charge pulse is switched of after the water was ionized into H+ and OH- but before the rest of electrolysis occurred, then they will recombine into H2O and release that energy that was sent to them to break them up. Thus it becomes a water fuel cell as well as a Lead/Sulfuric acid galvanic cell.

Conventional charging is only concerned about reversing the external electron flow and says to go ahead and electrolyze the water out of the battery. Between that and heat induced evaporation, you have to add water.

The bedini or joule thief style of charging reduces heat and the electrolyzing effect in the battery.

Relative conclusions:

1. Batteries charge faster

1. Batteries are less likely to be damage in charging

1. Sharp gradients pulsed across the battery organize the ions for maximum surface area. That explains the higher capacity

1. The water fuel cell effect explains why larger batteries are more efficient in charging

[ABCStore]

Just a couple comments -

1. Heavily sulfated batteries (from my experience) tend to drop voltage under load and then slowly recover.
2. Adding distilled water to a completely dry gel battery seems to have gotten it back to life. Completely!

ABC

[shlodo]

Just a couple comments -

1. Heavily sulfated batteries (from my experience) tend to drop voltage under load and then slowly recover.
2. Adding distilled water to a completely dry gel battery seems to have gotten it back to life. Completely!

ABC

Yes I agree. a dead battery will see maybe 30V when u start charging and drop down as the impediance in the battery changes.
Normal Current charging will see an infinite resistance in the battery, but Radiant charge doesn't.

Ive brought 12V 7AH batteries back to life and they now accept normal charge

@Redeagle - thanks for the insight

@Xenomorph - I know that voltages doesnt tell us everything but there is definitley a lot of energy going in. In the test I did I did load tests and even charging for 30s-1minute would show an increase in voltage under load. A 20 Min charge will show clearly a lot more nergy in because the motor i use to load goes faster and harder.

-shlodo

[Guruji]

Slayer JT setup

HI Slayer I did a Joule thief with your setup about that 10uf cap is it electrolyte or ac capacitor?
Thanks for your circuit.

[slayer007]

HI Slayer I did a Joule thief with your setup about that 10uf cap is it electrolyte or ac capacitor?
Thanks for your circuit.

Hello Guruji

All the capacitors in the circuit are DC capacitors.

The ones I'm using are small electrolyte non polarized caps.

Also look at Lidmotors Inverted Joule Thief circuit.
He added a cap to the base of the 2n3055 and also one at the 1k resistor of the Joule Thief.

These will make a differance when running your JT at higher voltage.

[Guruji]

Big joule thief

Hi Slayer007 thanks for response. My JT did not work don't know why. I'm using a 2" torroid as you did but nothing happened.
I was using electrolyte polorized 10uf but nothing happened. Maybe it's not the capacitor problem it's the winding problem for JT.
Any help please?
Thanks