Big Joule Theif

[shlodo]

Multicoil?

Hey, anyone ever thought of doing a multicoil design. One trigger and several pulse coils to catch the radiant off the emitter??

I'll post a diagram when i get home

-shlodo

[Xenomorph]

@Shlodo: Some Multi-coil designs are being discussed at the Joule Thief thread over at overunity forums. IST is having some success with that.

I thought swapping between charging (85%) and Lighting (15%) on the back end would be the way to go.

That is actually being considered by the switches in the diagram.
The 555 controls both the LV and HV side switching(theroretically).

In your diagram what are the switches? transistors, mosfets??

It will be T-gates/SSRs in the actual circuit. MOSFETS and transistors won´t work in this case.

I still see a problem tho with the timer on the front end

Agreed, it will just be a good test to see if the battery actually really ONLY charges with the spikes that happen at the switching points. If so then the LV switching is obsolete. However it might be possible or is even likely that the cap also draws from the source battery besides the spikes, so maybe then disconnecting the charging part for 85% of the time might reduce that. Will find out.

[slayer007]

WOW Lidmotor you were sure right about the 8" round cfl lights.

Just running off a couple batterys its almost full brightness.
I coulnt believe the differance between this and the spiral cfl's.

Even turned all the way down the light will still light.
Its almost twice the watts and its also twice as bright.

[theremart]

Testing out charging with a JT.

I decided to test out the JT in charging 12 amp hour batteries.

Hours Time Target Source
0 Start 11:29 12.30 ( two semi
batteries)
16 hours 4PM 12.50 12.07
26 hours 6PM 12.92 12.00
51 hours 9PM 15.23 10.30

I was using a .5 amp charge rate from my JT. My two semi batteries delivered 25.5 amp hours to charge this 12 amp hour battery to max.

I might try a 1 amp charge to see if it does better getting up to 15 V Source semi batteries have been charged with solar. I have a 32 W solar panel and I charge batteries up to 12.60 resting then pull the juice down to 10 V and charge them right back up to over 12V I have found that even a cloudy day I can get the batteries up to 12V ( enough to prevent sulfation ) as of yet I still only get 60-80% charge rate when using the Bedini SS device.
I may need to tune it... I was also thinking of trying Erwins idea which is to arrange the solar cells in series so I get higher voltage for higher spikes. I was even thinking of using a transformer to get high V spikes to attack the sulfation in the batteries.

All might go on hold as I am packing to move... sigh but I may build myself a JT charging system to see how effective it is on golf cart batteries.

The JT does run even down to the last V of the battery which make me think it would make the battery hungry for charge when you go back to charge it.

[Xenomorph]

Massive Toroid

Out of curiosity i manufactured a massive toroid to see how it performs compared to my others:


It is 13 turns AWG 15 on the primary
and around 800 turns AWG 20 on the secondary
plus since i had more wire than i could slam on there, there is
about 300 turns of solenoid on one end of the secondary too.
The toroid is 6.1 cm (2.4") outside diameter N30 ferrite.

I also tried something new, i have wound the secondary OVER the primary, so i could fit more
turns on there (usually off-the-shelf transformers are done like that too) and it seems to make
no difference.

The CFL lights significantly brighter than with my other toroid,
which had only 650 turns on the secondary. So it is not clear, if the thicker
wire is making a difference really.

I wonder if a higher count of turns on the secondary will increase the brightness linearly or if there is a point where it would decrease, since the induced current (according to physics books) is proportional to the inverse of the number of turns. and i am not sure how the current influences the CFL.
If i explain that right, a toroid with higher secondary turn count draws more juice from the source battery to realize the higher induced voltage in the secondary.

I am still wondering if placing 2 or more horseshoe CFLs would have a similar effect than that circular lamp that Lidmotor found out to be surprisingly bright. If the close location of the charge and discharge part is the reason for that, then maybe placing these parts on multiple lamps as close as possible together can brighten them up.

[theremart]

A small and a large JT...

YouTube - Video 65 Joule Thief Chargers reviewed

Had much fun with these, and I am impressed with how well this charges. I guess I would like to think about multiple transistors and see how they would do...

[shlodo]

multiple coils

YouTube - Video 65 Joule Thief Chargers reviewed

Had much fun with these, and I am impressed with how well this charges. I guess I would like to think about multiple transistors and see how they would do...

Great work Mart! how many turns have u got on the coil in the video?? Have u measured amps out?

Ive had good success charging batteries, even alkaline! Here's my latest video charging various batteries:
YouTube - Radiant Joule Thief Charger 06

Ive done many tests now and it seems to get a COP=1 or close to. My tests have been very basic, but from the outset the results are promising. in some tests it "Appears" that im putting more into the battery, but i cant be sure untill i devise a proper test.

What i find interesting is im charging at 12V at about 570mA and on the back end im measuring 270mA and whatever voltage is hitting the battery (usually above 12V). so it seems to me that im charging the battery at around the same rate as the run battery is depleting.
So how can this be possible if there is only 270mA hitting the battery.

The HV pulses must be helping the battery charge. So i figure all we need to do is catch more radiant.
I think extra coils/transistors is the way to go to catch more radiant off the coils
Has anyone had experience adding coils to a solid state Bedini??
I think maybe we need trigger coils for every extra coil we add
Any ideas guys??

-shlodo

[theremart]

JT info

>>Great work Mart! how many turns have u got on the coil in the video?? >>Have u measured amps out?

I am sorry but this is one of those extra Bedini coils I had that I twisted the wire and slapped it on the coil. I don't know how much wire is there, Just strange that it seemed to work best with less of the ferrite beads in it than to have it full. Used 23, and 20 guage wire twisted together. Two wires.




>Ive had good success charging batteries, even alkaline! Here's my latest >video charging various batteries:
>YouTube - Radiant >Joule Thief Charger 06

Yes been there seen that Video great stuff, Lidmotor has found a torroid that is already wrapped that may be just what you need if you intend to sell these, very clean setup you have there,


>Ive done many tests now and it seems to get a COP=1 or close to. My >tests have been very basic, but from the outset the results are promising. >in some tests it "Appears" that im putting more into the battery, but i cant >be sure untill i devise a proper test.

I hear what you are saying. Very hard to devise a good test. For a rough estimate I take the total voltage of both batteries and see if the total voltage goes down of both batteries added together. Another method I use is to simply swap the batterries for LONG durrations of time. If I am getting greater than one then it should be able to at least maintain the total voltage of both batteries.



>What i find interesting is im charging at 12V at about 570mA and on the >back end im measuring 270mA and whatever voltage is hitting the battery >(usually above 12V). so it seems to me that im charging the battery at >around the same rate as the run battery is depleting.
>So how can this be possible if there is only 270mA hitting the >battery.

To me the real test is a load test, voltages come and go, but I have found a resting voltage is a much better indicator of what is in the battery verses the charging voltage. Loading the battery and watching till it hits X voltage is to me a very very good indication of how much energy is in the battery.




>The HV pulses must be helping the battery charge. So i figure all we need >to do is catch more radiant. I think extra coils/transistors is the way to go >to catch more radiant off the coils Has anyone had experience adding coils >to a solid state Bedini?? I think maybe we need trigger coils for every extra >coil we add Any ideas guys??

>-shlodo[/QUOTE]

The Jetijs setup has multiple coils and from my load tests it is a WINNER! If you look at the setup it is very similar to the Joule Thief.

Cheers!

[Lidmotor]

Flip Flop JT Lite

I have been working with a simple 2 transistor "flip flop" circuit that I found online. It was a quest to see if this could pulse the JT circuit without having to use a 555 chip. Basically what you guys have been discussing about hitting the charge battery with HV pulses is what is on my mind also. Anyway I got the circuit running and hooked it up to a "Fuji disposable camera" CFL (1) AA battery light. It doubled the run time on the thing.

YouTube - Flip Flop JT Lite

Lidmotor

[slayer007]

I have been working with a simple 2 transistor "flip flop" circuit that I found online. It was a quest to see if this could pulse the JT circuit without having to use a 555 chip. Basically what you guys have been discussing about hitting the charge battery with HV pulses is what is on my mind also. Anyway I got the circuit running and hooked it up to a "Fuji disposable camera" CFL (1) AA battery light. It doubled the run time on the thing.

YouTube - Flip Flop JT Lite

Lidmotor

Very nice Lidmotor.

I like your idea with the flip flop.
How fast can you get the flip flop to oscillate or flip flop?

[Lidmotor]

Flip Flop speed

Very nice Lidmotor.

I like your idea with the flip flop.
How fast can you get the flip flop to oscillate or flip flop?

You can make the 'flip flop' go as fast as you want. You change the capacitor values and/or the resistor values on the base of the two transistors to get the job done. What I was looking for was an easier way to make the CFL stay lit while the JT charged. Still working on it. Maybe get the 'filp' to run the light and the 'flop' to charge the battery.

Lidmotor

[shlodo]

Flip to the Flop

You can make the 'flip flop' go as fast as you want. You change the capacitor values and/or the resistor values on the base of the two transistors to get the job done. What I was looking for was an easier way to make the CFL stay lit while the JT charged. Still working on it. Maybe get the 'filp' to run the light and the 'flop' to charge the battery.

Lidmotor

@Lidmotor
good work, I like where you're going with this, how much does the flip flop circuit consume?? compared to a 555... coz im pretty sure u can do a sinilar thing with a 555, use the "High" on time to run one thing and the "Low" off time to run something else.

@MartHale
I'll have to check out the Jetijis design cheers.
your right, the holding voltage under load is very interesting. In the last video I do a 10min charge on a bank of 3 Alkaline 9V. I load them with a 12V motor that pulls 450mA and the sitting voltage under load was like 4.3V. After the 10 min charge the holding voltage under load was over 7V

Here's my idea for Dual Coil JT... I dont know if it will work, might need 2 trigger coils for the 2 power coils... has anyone done anything similar yet??

-shlodo

[Lidmotor]

Dual coil JT

@Lidmotor
good work, I like where you're going with this, how much does the flip flop circuit consume?? compared to a 555... coz im pretty sure u can do a sinilar thing with a 555, use the "High" on time to run one thing and the "Low" off time to run something else.

@MartHale
I'll have to check out the Jetijis design cheers.
your right, the holding voltage under load is very interesting. In the last video I do a 10min charge on a bank of 3 Alkaline 9V. I load them with a 12V motor that pulls 450mA and the sitting voltage under load was like 4.3V. After the 10 min charge the holding voltage under load was over 7V

Here's my idea for Dual Coil JT... I dont know if it will work, might need 2 trigger coils for the 2 power coils... has anyone done anything similar yet??

-shlodo

shlodo---
The Flip Flop that I made seems to draw about what the CMOS 555 does. I may be a reinventing of the wheel here. Your two coil design should work and I might be able to use that idea with the flip flop circuit (or 555) to alternate between the third HV coil to drive the CFL and the second coil for charging.

[Xenomorph]

@Lidmotor : Impressive. I wouldn´t have thought that the FUJI driver is creating that bright light as visible in your video. Wow, i had read the entire JT thread on overunity.org, but it is hard to get exactly that FUJI disposable continous flash model in europe that the folks over there used. Looks like i gotta order one from the states hehe.

You remember if your´s looked like this ?:



I know your approach was not to use a 555, i just wonder what power-consumption-saving you could reach if you used the 555-low-duty-cycle on the FUJI board input.

Keep it up!

[Mutten]

I stopped by a CVS pharmacy that does photo development and asked for some recycled camera housings and the lady gave me 5 random ones for free. got 3 Kodak and 2 Fuji. The Fuji's were continuous flash models.

Might not have the same luck getting them for free but it might save a few bucks~