Big Joule Theif

[Tectalabyss]

removed My reply

Actually, you can use the PNP by reversing the battery and the LED.
I saw a pic on it. I'll see if I can find it. The coil doesnt mind, its the semiconductor parts that have to flow the right direction.

Ok, I found the quote:
"When using a PNP, you said to reverse emitter with collector. But the emitter and collector of a PNP should be connected to the same places as for the NPN transistor. The only thing that needs to be reversed is the LED. The battery must be reversed, negative connects to the coil leads."
Here is the link to the page: Joule Thief | Savel brain dump in English!

The NPN is used normally because it's more efficient.

Hello Vaporizer and all.
I removed My reply so has not to cause confusion and I was wrong anyway, ah you know what they say ( there's no fool like an old fool ) Lol.
Thanks.Tec

[Vaporizer]

Actually, you can use the PNP by reversing the battery and the LED.
I saw a pic on it. I'll see if I can find it. The coil doesnt mind, its the semiconductor parts that have to flow the right direction.

Ok, I found the quote:
"When using a PNP, you said to reverse emitter with collector. But the emitter and collector of a PNP should be connected to the same places as for the NPN transistor. The only thing that needs to be reversed is the LED. The battery must be reversed, negative connects to the coil leads."
Here is the link to the page: Joule Thief | Savel brain dump in English!

The NPN is used normally because it's more efficient.

[Galvatron]

PNP connection

Sorry to butt in. I'm new here and I have a question. I have some PNP transistors and I want to use one in my circuit. I have searched high and low for a diagram for a PNP configuration and could not find one. I made my own and posted it here. Is it correct?

[Vaporizer]

Hi all,
Well I did all the tests suggested. I made a bridge rectifier and it shows 230vdc. Not much from the ratio and the fact it has 650 turns on the secondary. I replaced everything new in the circuit. Same symptoms. Put in a larger pot and did get it to act more normal on the ocillation. It squeals very nice and light loads of LEDs on the primary side.

I got my shipment in from Goldmine! The best part of today. lol
The 8mm super bright LEDs are nice and I also got 10 of there 5 for a $1 nice core. I got 2 of the blue ones to try too. They are thicker and look promising.
My wide assortment of transistors came too. I subbed 1 of every power transistor I have in that circuit and to no avail. Even the MJE3055. I moved the used transistors back to smaller circuits and they work fine as new ones. It seems the 230v that is present has nothing to back it up. I finally got a bare noticeable tingle from it wetting 2 fingers. Same hand. hahaha
I put 1 LED across the 230v and it lit an LED(1) and never blew it? I'm beginning to doubt the permeability of these cores. No specs available.
I'm just amazed that they work so well as a BJT using just the primary. I wound the primary layer of the secondary and wrapped it with tape. Then I wrapped back over that layer. I read its called "windshield wiper" style. I did separate the 2 layers and they read 180vdc on the 1st layer and 150vdc on the secondary. The secondary has less winds so that seems normal. They don't get hot at all unless I go up to 2.5v. Above that it doesnt oscillate. I thought they may work at 12v and may have to be dedicated to that. I also went to 22ga primary wires hoping to shoot more current through it. No diff.

Still open to suggestions while I go reread some things on larger toroid circuits.

[Groundloop]

@totoalas,

No, you will need two closed path cores of some sort with a little
separation in between. The center coil is then used as a magnetic
switch (for AC or pulsed DC) between the two cores. The toroid
cores are perfect for this circuit. Best toroid core material is Ferrite.
I think that powdered Iron toroid cores will work also, but I have not
tried that.

Alex.

[Tectalabyss]

Sorry I couldn't help more

Hi Tec,
Tnx for the suggestions. I had my fingers on the output and not a tingle. lol
I'll try the higher pot. Like I said, its oscillating, but weird. Normally I have no LED on, I can bring it from nothing thru dim to full then it drops to off. This ones on all the time. It may need a higher pot due to the high kickback from all the winds. Odd it would be like that with no secondary connected at all, just open.
Might be a hot or cold toroid. At this point I can't say. I have enough to not have to worry abt stripping it.

Hello Vaporizer and all.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.Nickz could be right ? One thing I did want to share was BGmicro Has some great deals on Toroid s, Transistors check them out. I've bought from them and they are OK.My power has been going off we are in the middle of a winter storm I've had something like Vaporizer's Trouble but for the life of me I cannot remember what it was Thanks. Tec

[totoalas]

Big joule Thief

@NickZ,

I have not tried to use more than one secondary toroid. But I think your
idea is good. One thing though, the center coil (L3) needs to be tuned.
Too few turns and no output at all. To many turns and poor output.
I'm using the positive voltage "spike" every time the transistor is trigged
on, as you can see in the drawing, via a diode to trigger the coupling
coil (L3). This way the input enery can ONLY be transfeered to the output
at each power coil triggering. The polarity of the L3 also needs to be
correct. Connect the L3 the wrong way and no or poor output is the result.

The two toroid with a coil in the middle is an AC switch. AC (or pulsed DC)
can ONLY transfer to the second toroid if the coil is shorted out. No work
need to be done on the coil since you can actually use a on/off switch
for this. So my idea was to use the forward voltage spike when the transistor
turns on for this switching since we do not need to provide any power to
do so. I hope my english is good enough to explain what is happening.

The toroids do not need to be of the same size. You can actually use a
larger toroid for the output (the right one). Like I said before, the importaint
thing is the center coil (L3). It MUST have the correct LOW Ohm =
thick wire, but still HIGH enough inductance for the voltage pulse.
Best way is by trial end error. Begin with enough wire to make many turns
and then remove turns until the voltage get really high at the output.
If the voltage starts to go down then you have removed too many turns.

I do not make videos but here is a picture where I lit up a 25 Watt 230VAC
normal light bulb.



Here is a 15 Watt 230VAC Osram Tube lit up to almost full.
(Input usage was 15 Volt @ 0,86A.)



My circuit enclousere is an old data transfer switch metal box. LOL
If you have more questions then do not hesitate to ask.

Alex.

Hi Alex
just wondering if an E ferrite or iron core from transformer can substitute to your toroids
YouTube - TROS -- "hf generator" III

as always 7 stars


cheers

totoalas

[NickZ]

@V:
Maybe it's getting too much juice and blinks off?
I have that with one of my Jts, I can only use a rather dead battery, then it uses up the charge pretty quick also. I still can't find the right pot.
It turned out to be a bad transistor for me, since they get hot and don't work right.

[Vaporizer]

Hi Tec,
Tnx for the suggestions. I had my fingers on the output and not a tingle. lol
I'll try the higher pot. Like I said, its oscillating, but weird. Normally I have no LED on, I can bring it from nothing thru dim to full then it drops to off. This ones on all the time. It may need a higher pot due to the high kickback from all the winds. Odd it would be like that with no secondary connected at all, just open.
Might be a hot or cold toroid. At this point I can't say. I have enough to not have to worry abt stripping it.

[Tectalabyss]

On another note, I was testing my new toroid with the dual layer secondary. Odd to say the least. It sings, lights the LED and puts out nothing on the secondary. I swapped wires, changed the transistor, pot I even unhooked the secondary. It acts strange. Even though it sings and will change frequency, I can never get the LED to go out. Its on all the time, although it will vary with the 1K pot some....
I measured the secondary for shorts. Nothing. I cut the second layer from the 1st to see if it would light a cfl as the 1st one did. Nope, neither layer or both.
For a last ditch test I unhooked the circuit and tapped 12v across the primary winding. Each secondary wind will flick the cfl on and if they are wired back like normal it flashes brighter. It won't do a thing on 1 or 2 AA though other than sing. I replace the primary winding too with one with 10 winds each side. No diff.
All I can figure is the core is defective somehow.

Ideas?

@Vaporizer.
try a bridge rectifier on the secondary then check the voltage ?Add a higher resistor between base and pot to base? Tec

[Vaporizer]

On another note, I was testing my new toroid with the dual layer secondary. Odd to say the least. It sings, lights the LED and puts out nothing on the secondary. I swapped wires, changed the transistor, pot I even unhooked the secondary. It acts strange. Even though it sings and will change frequency, I can never get the LED to go out. Its on all the time, although it will vary with the 1K pot some....
I measured the secondary for shorts. Nothing. I cut the second layer from the 1st to see if it would light a cfl as the 1st one did. Nope, neither layer or both.
For a last ditch test I unhooked the circuit and tapped 12v across the primary winding. Each secondary wind will flick the cfl on and if they are wired back like normal it flashes brighter. It won't do a thing on 1 or 2 AA though other than sing. I replace the primary winding too with one with 10 winds each side. No diff.
All I can figure is the core is defective somehow.

Ideas?

[Tectalabyss]

Thanks for the reply

Hi Tec all,
When using a TEC or "peltier device" voltage is applied and one side cools releasing the heat from the other face.
The Seebeck Effect is when no voltage is applied and heat is applied to one side the other side cools and the leads produce voltage.
Thermoelectric effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its basically 2 plates with many P & N junctions between the plates. The main thing is to keep one side as diff in temp as you can. If you put one side on a cpu, add voltage it cools the cpu but the other face get hot. So, its heat sinked. In our case a transistor could be allowed to run hot with a heatsink(sealed), use Arctic Thermal Adhesive to bond it and on the other face bond a heatsink open to the air or fan cooled. The hotter it heats the TEC the more voltage it produces and with a diode could be fed back into the circuit.

You'll see many 40mm one for sale cheap. Please dont waste your money. They have a max of 32 junctions and produce very little. Better ones that might stand a chance have 64 junctions and can cost abt $50 ea. Ouch!

Hello Vaporizer and All.
I see Thank you for the explanation.I read your post on winding it was very helpful makes it a lot simpler too Its so easy to lose count when the grand kids are down Thanks Tec

[Vaporizer]

Hi Tec all,
When using a TEC or "peltier device" voltage is applied and one side cools releasing the heat from the other face.
The Seebeck Effect is when no voltage is applied and heat is applied to one side the other side cools and the leads produce voltage.
Thermoelectric effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its basically 2 plates with many P & N junctions between the plates. The main thing is to keep one side as diff in temp as you can. If you put one side on a cpu, add voltage it cools the cpu but the other face get hot. So, its heat sinked. In our case a transistor could be allowed to run hot with a heatsink(sealed), use Arctic Thermal Adhesive to bond it and on the other face bond a heatsink open to the air or fan cooled. The hotter it heats the TEC the more voltage it produces and with a diode could be fed back into the circuit.

You'll see many 40mm one for sale cheap. Please dont waste your money. They have a max of 32 junctions and produce very little. Better ones that might stand a chance have 64 junctions and can cost abt $50 ea. Ouch!

[Tectalabyss]

Hi all,
Nice setup groundloop. I've read a lot of your work. Heat is tough to deal with as its very tough to recover. TEC's just arent that efficient. They can help though via the Seebeck effect, but you'll need the expensive ones that have a lot of junctions, not the cheap ones. Looks like you are abt 60% efficient now.

@ synchro,
Nice light. I like the dual circuit for more light staying with a single battery. You can use 1 battery for both or 1 for each depending on the time you need. I can see where you are going with it but I'm not sure you'll make it with a $15 solar charger. A bigger one, yes. My single camera circuits drew abt 130ma with a 9w "U" bulb. When I put 2 batteries in series the light came up to a more useable level , but the current went much higher. Most solar chargers ( low price) are putting out abt 50ma. With 8hrs of sun that 400ma. 130ma draw for 12 hrs is 1560ma. So, recovering that in 8hrs of solar is gonna be tough. Bedini chargers works well here. I have my small 12v mower battery thats been running 24/7 recharging everything I have and I've never had to recharge it. 20 min idling from my car would top it right off for another month in a bad situation. Keep us up on your progress. Can you post a link to that charger?

I just finished my toroid with the 2nd layer wrap. I figure it has abt 250-275 turns added now. So, thats 350 with 250 added. The electrical tape wont let you slide the wire tighter no matter how close you wrap. masking or painters tape may be a better choice.
Off to try it and I bet I need to change the primary as the core probably needs more saturation now. I wish the 140k LEDs would show up so I can start packing some up. Snowing tonight. It may get a workout! I have the bulbs mounted in hockey puck like bases. I should just finish a couple up since change out isnt that bad. I get side tracked way to easily and think of way to many things to try.....lol

Hello All.
Vaporizer please explain the seebeck effect? I checked my battery on the 12th day of running my test JT and its still at 1.267 volts not great but I would not say inefficient. I plan on running it till it gets to right under 1 volt then adding a secondary and going from there.My other JT is doing ok has well. Thanks. Tectalabyss

[Vaporizer]

Hi all,
Nice setup groundloop. I've read a lot of your work. Heat is tough to deal with as its very tough to recover. TEC's just arent that efficient. They can help though via the Seebeck effect, but you'll need the expensive ones that have a lot of junctions, not the cheap ones. Looks like you are abt 60% efficient now.

@ synchro,
Nice light. I like the dual circuit for more light staying with a single battery. You can use 1 battery for both or 1 for each depending on the time you need. I can see where you are going with it but I'm not sure you'll make it with a $15 solar charger. A bigger one, yes. My single camera circuits drew abt 130ma with a 9w "U" bulb. When I put 2 batteries in series the light came up to a more useable level , but the current went much higher. Most solar chargers ( low price) are putting out abt 50ma. With 8hrs of sun that 400ma. 130ma draw for 12 hrs is 1560ma. So, recovering that in 8hrs of solar is gonna be tough. Bedini chargers works well here. I have my small 12v mower battery thats been running 24/7 recharging everything I have and I've never had to recharge it. 20 min idling from my car would top it right off for another month in a bad situation. Keep us up on your progress. Can you post a link to that charger?

I just finished my toroid with the 2nd layer wrap. I figure it has abt 250-275 turns added now. So, thats 350 with 250 added. The electrical tape wont let you slide the wire tighter no matter how close you wrap. masking or painters tape may be a better choice.
Off to try it and I bet I need to change the primary as the core probably needs more saturation now. I wish the 140k LEDs would show up so I can start packing some up. Snowing tonight. It may get a workout! I have the bulbs mounted in hockey puck like bases. I should just finish a couple up since change out isnt that bad. I get side tracked way to easily and think of way to many things to try.....lol