Big Joule Theif

[redeagle]

Hello everyone.
I am new to this forum.I have came across something I wish to share.and hope somebody else can give me an ideal what is happening with this My setup Is a 555 timer running a 2n3055 trans,this is hooked to a joule thief coil,I have this running to another 2n3055 transistor,this is then hooked to another joule thief coil,this feeds into an automotive ing coil.which I have running a CFL light and charging a 2nd Battery.These are my findings sofar:Time 9:35 am Source 12.33 volts.... Charge 14.55 V....

Time 1:35 PM...Source 12.38 volts... Charge 14.68 volts.

Any Ideals....Tec

If these are 12v batteries you are using you might want to switched them soon...if you over charged them they will die especially if they are gel cells. once the gell dries out it's gone

[redeagle]

Following on from previous post.....

One other thing I might note is that I have measured the Current Output. Usually it is half of what I am consuming on the front end. In the experiment above the output current was 140mA while consumption was 290mA.

What i find interesting is that we can get a COP>12 with very little current going into the charge batteries. The results do not reflect the current i measured.
Clearly the High Voltage Radiant spikes (in the hundreds of volts) is what is charging the battery and NOT the current coming out of the JT

I encourage those of u who have built Joule Thiefs to do some proper battery charging tests.. I would love to have someone to compare data with...

-shlodo

It's a little of both actually. Charging Lead battery is a function of both volts and amps. What the goal here is to pump a high voltage spike through the battery that switches off before the water capacitor in the battery reaches the max and starts electrolysis. Hence is why they say it's just a "signal" charging the battery. The battery has no choice to charge or not because the HV spike has already transformed the lead plates and removed some lead from solution back to the plates.

The trick is to engineer effects not causes. Charging batteries by moving lead ions instead of moving electrons only is a much more efficient method of charging and the spikes have been said to create a crystalized surface on the face of the lead plates which increases capacity.

Other batteries have different effects and need to be charged differently.

Matt

[lanenal]

shlodo:

You are definitely heading toward the right direction, but I would like to give you some advice. Since the run and charge batteries are not of the same type, it is not very reliable to draw conclusions yet -- and even if they are of the same type, you may not draw convincing conclusions directly on voltage changes. It is better to do load tests to find out the relationship between the voltage change and the work output. For example, you can repeat your tests to find out the relationship between Energy output (in joules or Watt*Hours) and rest voltages (V0, V1), which are the initial and the final voltages. So, once you got an empirical function of Output(V0, V1), then you can easily calculate the COP. I don't know, maybe if you search on the net, you might find something ready for use.

Good luck!

lanenal

Edit:

Here is a reference about Lead=acid batteries:
Charging the lead-acid battery

Following on from previous post.....

One other thing I might note is that I have measured the Current Output. Usually it is half of what I am consuming on the front end. In the experiment above the output current was 140mA while consumption was 290mA.

What i find interesting is that we can get a COP>12 with very little current going into the charge batteries. The results do not reflect the current i measured.
Clearly the High Voltage Radiant spikes (in the hundreds of volts) is what is charging the battery and NOT the current coming out of the JT

I encourage those of u who have built Joule Thiefs to do some proper battery charging tests.. I would love to have someone to compare data with...

-shlodo

[shlodo]

High Voltage is better at charging than current

Following on from previous post.....

One other thing I might note is that I have measured the Current Output. Usually it is half of what I am consuming on the front end. In the experiment above the output current was 140mA while consumption was 290mA.

What i find interesting is that we can get a COP>12 with very little current going into the charge batteries. The results do not reflect the current i measured.
Clearly the High Voltage Radiant spikes (in the hundreds of volts) is what is charging the battery and NOT the current coming out of the JT

I encourage those of u who have built Joule Thiefs to do some proper battery charging tests.. I would love to have someone to compare data with...

-shlodo

[shlodo]

Overunity?!??!? COP of 12.27!

I dont know if this would work or not but I would like to try this on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.

I all ready posed this in the Leedskalnin/Tesla Unipolar Generator thread.
But I think it could also work with a JT toroid.

I would like to have to coils on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.
Pulse the Leedskalnin coils then start the JT.

I would like to see if it has any effect on the JT when it passes through the Leedskalnin coils.

I all ready posted this video in the Leedskalnin/Tesla thread but I will post it here also here is the video.

YouTube - Leedskalnin Coils #2

Great stuff Slayer007 - very interesting, look foreward to see where u take this


Ive been concentrating lately on pure charging. Again Im getting "seemingly" Overunity results! Im hoping to eventually use a double coil design to get better charging.
In this test I used 4xAA's which were Nimh rechargeables. The charge batteries were 4xAA's of standard Alkaline batteries. And yes Alkalines can recharge using the JT.

Heres the Data:

During the whole test the JT consumed 290mA. I recorded the voltage every so often and then i would turn off the circuit for about 30sec to do a quick load test with a 12V motor which consumes 500mA. I recorded and compared the holding voltage under this 500mA load to see how much energy was going into the batteries. I repeated this procedure exactly the same way for each data point

Before the test:
Run=5.16V
Charge=4.53V
Holding Voltage under Load=4.7V

After 1 minute of Charging:
Run=5.14V
Charge=5.25V
Holding Voltage under Load=4.8V

After 18 minutes of Charging
Run=4.88V
Charge=5.64V
Holding Voltage under Load=5.15

After 1 hour 24 minutes of Charging
Run=4.78V
Charge=6.15V
Holding Voltage under Load=5.63V >>> Stop

After 3 hours of Resting
Run=5.05V
Charge=5.88V
Holding Voltage under Load=5.55V

Conclusions:
It seems that the JT has lost 0.11V on the run but increased the voltage in the charge by 1.35V

Voltage Lost=0.11V
Voltage Gained=1.35V
Increase Under Load=0.85V
Thats a COP of 12.27 !!

-shlodo

[slayer007]

I dont know if this would work or not but I would like to try this on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.

I all ready posed this in the Leedskalnin/Tesla Unipolar Generator thread.
But I think it could also work with a JT toroid.

I would like to have to coils on a toroid with a JT on the toroid also.
Pulse the Leedskalnin coils then start the JT.

I would like to see if it has any effect on the JT when it passes through the Leedskalnin coils.

I all ready posted this video in the Leedskalnin/Tesla thread but I will post it here also here is the video.

YouTube - Leedskalnin Coils #2

[shlodo]

Pulses Out of Phase

shlodo---
The Flip Flop that I made seems to draw about what the CMOS 555 does. I may be a reinventing of the wheel here. Your two coil design should work and I might be able to use that idea with the flip flop circuit (or 555) to alternate between the third HV coil to drive the CFL and the second coil for charging.

I like the idea of the 2 coils being out of phase. Some of Bedini's motors have an odd number of magnets and even number of coils so that they fire at different times, creating and catching more of the radiant.
Could be onto something here!

Man i gotta try the Fuji circuit!

-shlodo

EDIT - Just watched Bedini talking about multiple coils. He said to add coils in phase the radiant spike is ADDitive. So if u want a bigger spike then put them in phase.. If the coils are firing out of phase then u get more spikes but the spikes aren't additive to make a bigger spike

[Mutten]

I stopped by a CVS pharmacy that does photo development and asked for some recycled camera housings and the lady gave me 5 random ones for free. got 3 Kodak and 2 Fuji. The Fuji's were continuous flash models.

Might not have the same luck getting them for free but it might save a few bucks~

[Xenomorph]

[Lidmotor]

Dual coil JT

@Lidmotor
good work, I like where you're going with this, how much does the flip flop circuit consume?? compared to a 555... coz im pretty sure u can do a sinilar thing with a 555, use the "High" on time to run one thing and the "Low" off time to run something else.

@MartHale
I'll have to check out the Jetijis design cheers.
your right, the holding voltage under load is very interesting. In the last video I do a 10min charge on a bank of 3 Alkaline 9V. I load them with a 12V motor that pulls 450mA and the sitting voltage under load was like 4.3V. After the 10 min charge the holding voltage under load was over 7V

Here's my idea for Dual Coil JT... I dont know if it will work, might need 2 trigger coils for the 2 power coils... has anyone done anything similar yet??

-shlodo

shlodo---
The Flip Flop that I made seems to draw about what the CMOS 555 does. I may be a reinventing of the wheel here. Your two coil design should work and I might be able to use that idea with the flip flop circuit (or 555) to alternate between the third HV coil to drive the CFL and the second coil for charging.

[shlodo]

Flip to the Flop

You can make the 'flip flop' go as fast as you want. You change the capacitor values and/or the resistor values on the base of the two transistors to get the job done. What I was looking for was an easier way to make the CFL stay lit while the JT charged. Still working on it. Maybe get the 'filp' to run the light and the 'flop' to charge the battery.

Lidmotor

@Lidmotor
good work, I like where you're going with this, how much does the flip flop circuit consume?? compared to a 555... coz im pretty sure u can do a sinilar thing with a 555, use the "High" on time to run one thing and the "Low" off time to run something else.

@MartHale
I'll have to check out the Jetijis design cheers.
your right, the holding voltage under load is very interesting. In the last video I do a 10min charge on a bank of 3 Alkaline 9V. I load them with a 12V motor that pulls 450mA and the sitting voltage under load was like 4.3V. After the 10 min charge the holding voltage under load was over 7V

Here's my idea for Dual Coil JT... I dont know if it will work, might need 2 trigger coils for the 2 power coils... has anyone done anything similar yet??

-shlodo

[Lidmotor]

Flip Flop speed

Very nice Lidmotor.

I like your idea with the flip flop.
How fast can you get the flip flop to oscillate or flip flop?

You can make the 'flip flop' go as fast as you want. You change the capacitor values and/or the resistor values on the base of the two transistors to get the job done. What I was looking for was an easier way to make the CFL stay lit while the JT charged. Still working on it. Maybe get the 'filp' to run the light and the 'flop' to charge the battery.

Lidmotor

[slayer007]

I have been working with a simple 2 transistor "flip flop" circuit that I found online. It was a quest to see if this could pulse the JT circuit without having to use a 555 chip. Basically what you guys have been discussing about hitting the charge battery with HV pulses is what is on my mind also. Anyway I got the circuit running and hooked it up to a "Fuji disposable camera" CFL (1) AA battery light. It doubled the run time on the thing.

YouTube - Flip Flop JT Lite

Lidmotor

Very nice Lidmotor.

I like your idea with the flip flop.
How fast can you get the flip flop to oscillate or flip flop?

[Lidmotor]

Flip Flop JT Lite

I have been working with a simple 2 transistor "flip flop" circuit that I found online. It was a quest to see if this could pulse the JT circuit without having to use a 555 chip. Basically what you guys have been discussing about hitting the charge battery with HV pulses is what is on my mind also. Anyway I got the circuit running and hooked it up to a "Fuji disposable camera" CFL (1) AA battery light. It doubled the run time on the thing.

YouTube - Flip Flop JT Lite

Lidmotor

[theremart]

JT info

>>Great work Mart! how many turns have u got on the coil in the video?? >>Have u measured amps out?

I am sorry but this is one of those extra Bedini coils I had that I twisted the wire and slapped it on the coil. I don't know how much wire is there, Just strange that it seemed to work best with less of the ferrite beads in it than to have it full. Used 23, and 20 guage wire twisted together. Two wires.




>Ive had good success charging batteries, even alkaline! Here's my latest >video charging various batteries:
>YouTube - Radiant >Joule Thief Charger 06

Yes been there seen that Video great stuff, Lidmotor has found a torroid that is already wrapped that may be just what you need if you intend to sell these, very clean setup you have there,


>Ive done many tests now and it seems to get a COP=1 or close to. My >tests have been very basic, but from the outset the results are promising. >in some tests it "Appears" that im putting more into the battery, but i cant >be sure untill i devise a proper test.

I hear what you are saying. Very hard to devise a good test. For a rough estimate I take the total voltage of both batteries and see if the total voltage goes down of both batteries added together. Another method I use is to simply swap the batterries for LONG durrations of time. If I am getting greater than one then it should be able to at least maintain the total voltage of both batteries.



>What i find interesting is im charging at 12V at about 570mA and on the >back end im measuring 270mA and whatever voltage is hitting the battery >(usually above 12V). so it seems to me that im charging the battery at >around the same rate as the run battery is depleting.
>So how can this be possible if there is only 270mA hitting the >battery.

To me the real test is a load test, voltages come and go, but I have found a resting voltage is a much better indicator of what is in the battery verses the charging voltage. Loading the battery and watching till it hits X voltage is to me a very very good indication of how much energy is in the battery.




>The HV pulses must be helping the battery charge. So i figure all we need >to do is catch more radiant. I think extra coils/transistors is the way to go >to catch more radiant off the coils Has anyone had experience adding coils >to a solid state Bedini?? I think maybe we need trigger coils for every extra >coil we add Any ideas guys??

>-shlodo[/QUOTE]

The Jetijs setup has multiple coils and from my load tests it is a WINNER! If you look at the setup it is very similar to the Joule Thief.

Cheers!