Big Joule Theif

[shlodo]

multiple coils

YouTube - Video 65 Joule Thief Chargers reviewed

Had much fun with these, and I am impressed with how well this charges. I guess I would like to think about multiple transistors and see how they would do...

Great work Mart! how many turns have u got on the coil in the video?? Have u measured amps out?

Ive had good success charging batteries, even alkaline! Here's my latest video charging various batteries:
YouTube - Radiant Joule Thief Charger 06

Ive done many tests now and it seems to get a COP=1 or close to. My tests have been very basic, but from the outset the results are promising. in some tests it "Appears" that im putting more into the battery, but i cant be sure untill i devise a proper test.

What i find interesting is im charging at 12V at about 570mA and on the back end im measuring 270mA and whatever voltage is hitting the battery (usually above 12V). so it seems to me that im charging the battery at around the same rate as the run battery is depleting.
So how can this be possible if there is only 270mA hitting the battery.

The HV pulses must be helping the battery charge. So i figure all we need to do is catch more radiant.
I think extra coils/transistors is the way to go to catch more radiant off the coils
Has anyone had experience adding coils to a solid state Bedini??
I think maybe we need trigger coils for every extra coil we add
Any ideas guys??

-shlodo

[theremart]

A small and a large JT...

YouTube - Video 65 Joule Thief Chargers reviewed

Had much fun with these, and I am impressed with how well this charges. I guess I would like to think about multiple transistors and see how they would do...

[Xenomorph]

Massive Toroid

Out of curiosity i manufactured a massive toroid to see how it performs compared to my others:


It is 13 turns AWG 15 on the primary
and around 800 turns AWG 20 on the secondary
plus since i had more wire than i could slam on there, there is
about 300 turns of solenoid on one end of the secondary too.
The toroid is 6.1 cm (2.4") outside diameter N30 ferrite.

I also tried something new, i have wound the secondary OVER the primary, so i could fit more
turns on there (usually off-the-shelf transformers are done like that too) and it seems to make
no difference.

The CFL lights significantly brighter than with my other toroid,
which had only 650 turns on the secondary. So it is not clear, if the thicker
wire is making a difference really.

I wonder if a higher count of turns on the secondary will increase the brightness linearly or if there is a point where it would decrease, since the induced current (according to physics books) is proportional to the inverse of the number of turns. and i am not sure how the current influences the CFL.
If i explain that right, a toroid with higher secondary turn count draws more juice from the source battery to realize the higher induced voltage in the secondary.

I am still wondering if placing 2 or more horseshoe CFLs would have a similar effect than that circular lamp that Lidmotor found out to be surprisingly bright. If the close location of the charge and discharge part is the reason for that, then maybe placing these parts on multiple lamps as close as possible together can brighten them up.

[theremart]

Testing out charging with a JT.

I decided to test out the JT in charging 12 amp hour batteries.

Hours Time Target Source
0 Start 11:29 12.30 ( two semi
batteries)
16 hours 4PM 12.50 12.07
26 hours 6PM 12.92 12.00
51 hours 9PM 15.23 10.30

I was using a .5 amp charge rate from my JT. My two semi batteries delivered 25.5 amp hours to charge this 12 amp hour battery to max.

I might try a 1 amp charge to see if it does better getting up to 15 V Source semi batteries have been charged with solar. I have a 32 W solar panel and I charge batteries up to 12.60 resting then pull the juice down to 10 V and charge them right back up to over 12V I have found that even a cloudy day I can get the batteries up to 12V ( enough to prevent sulfation ) as of yet I still only get 60-80% charge rate when using the Bedini SS device.
I may need to tune it... I was also thinking of trying Erwins idea which is to arrange the solar cells in series so I get higher voltage for higher spikes. I was even thinking of using a transformer to get high V spikes to attack the sulfation in the batteries.

All might go on hold as I am packing to move... sigh but I may build myself a JT charging system to see how effective it is on golf cart batteries.

The JT does run even down to the last V of the battery which make me think it would make the battery hungry for charge when you go back to charge it.

[slayer007]

WOW Lidmotor you were sure right about the 8" round cfl lights.

Just running off a couple batterys its almost full brightness.
I coulnt believe the differance between this and the spiral cfl's.

Even turned all the way down the light will still light.
Its almost twice the watts and its also twice as bright.

[Xenomorph]

@Shlodo: Some Multi-coil designs are being discussed at the Joule Thief thread over at overunity forums. IST is having some success with that.

I thought swapping between charging (85%) and Lighting (15%) on the back end would be the way to go.

That is actually being considered by the switches in the diagram.
The 555 controls both the LV and HV side switching(theroretically).

In your diagram what are the switches? transistors, mosfets??

I still see a problem tho with the timer on the front end

Agreed, it will just be a good test to see if the battery actually really ONLY charges with the spikes that happen at the switching points. If so then the LV switching is obsolete. However it might be possible or is even likely that the cap also draws from the source battery besides the spikes, so maybe then disconnecting the charging part for 85% of the time might reduce that. Will find out.

[shlodo]

Multicoil?

Hey, anyone ever thought of doing a multicoil design. One trigger and several pulse coils to catch the radiant off the emitter??

I'll post a diagram when i get home

-shlodo

[Lidmotor]

Halo Light circuit diagram

Someone asked me to post the diagram of the "Halo Light" so here it is.

Lidmotor

[shlodo]

A Light with significant charging would be ideal!

@Lidmotor
Ok so it looks like i'll have to find a "Halo" tube
You're right, the timing of the "swap" is very important. Its also important to give the batteries a bit of a rest before swapping front to back so they can recover a bit.
So at its maximum 300mA @ 12V that's a 3.6 Watt system plus you're cathing some of the radiant spike which would bring it down to about 2W I reckon. Man that's pretty impressive considering the amount of useable light.

By the way Lidmotor, have u ever seen the "Energy from the Vacuum Series"?? it's were i get all my info about Bedini charging. It's a brilliant resource.
Ive bought a couple of them and downloaded a few as well (im a uni student so I cant afford to buy em all! )
Id highly reccomend Part 2, Part 6 & 7:

YouTube - "Energy from the Vacuum" Documentary Series -Trailer
YouTube - "Energy from the Vacuum" Series - Trailer - Pt. 6

Bedini Solid State Charger:
YouTube - BEDINI RENAISSANCE RADIANT BATTERY CHARGER


@Xenomorph
I like your idea, you're right about the relays. As they make contact a spark appears and you kow that energy is being wasted. What about solid state relay's?
In your diagram what are the switches? transistors, mosfets??

I still see a problem tho with the timer on the front end.... The whole circuit is on for 15% so as I see it, we can only light the light and charge 15% of the time. So u might have to split that 15% into charging and lighting again.
Also as Lidmotor has found out, its very hard to light the Fluoro while charging. I thought swapping between charging (85%) and Lighting (15%) on the back end would be the way to go.
You're right about the secondary coil too, there is energy to be captured, but I wonder if u catch energy off the secondary will be at the detriment of the charging off the collector.

As you said, its all theory, now we have to test it! good luck!

[Lidmotor]

Xenomorph's new circuit

Xenomorph-----Wow! The more that I studied the circuit the more I thought of a "Singer" sewing machine. If this thing works it will be like watching a marvelously engineered machine run. Beautiful design.
I played around with solar charging today and found out that a solar cell phone charger will run my Fan Bedini SSG. Made a video of it but only posted it at my Youtube channel. I also tried charging up the "Halo Light" with my little 2 Watt panel and it did NOT work. The batteries that I used were for a VHS camera and probably have a circuit in them that didn't like what was happening. They charge up just fine on a wall wart transformer.
I can't wait to see if you circuit works.

Lidmotor

[Xenomorph]

Charge AND light

@Lidmotor:

This flourescent JT is VERY hard to get to work as a charger and light at the same time

I think i have a solution for that. I will test it in the next week, when i get all components required (since using relays is a big waste of energy)
Theoretically, you split the operation of the circuit. In the part of the duty cycle when the CFL fires, you disconnect the charging part, so that it does not draw from the circuit. Then when the coil collapses and the CFL would not light, you connect the charging part to collect the radiant spike.
That way the circuit would not have to provide both parts at the same time with the necessary amperage, hopefully having the CFL light with maximum brightness and provide enough charging when it is off.
Then we would have brighter light and slightly (15%) reduced charging (not sure if it would be even reduced though,depends on when the radiant spikes are moving).

That makes the 555 timer actually a multi-purpose component in this specific circuit.
That could be done in the HV part as well, even charging a 2nd battery with high voltage diodes and a proper sized cap, because there is radiant spikes from the secondary coil that are sitting there unused.

All that is needed is the same timer that pulses the circuit already to manage the switching, which is an awesomely minimal solution.
Again, all theory still. It needs to be tested.

Conceptional circuit:

[Lidmotor]

Halo Light Charging

@ Shlodo--- Thanks for the tips about charging. That explains a few things that I have seen happen. Impedance is something that Bedini talks a lot about and I need to reread what he said. This flourescent JT is VERY hard to get to work as a charger and light at the same time. The round bulb that I chose really helped for some reason.
On the little LED JT I found that it actually seemed to charge better when the batteries were kept at a slightly discharged level. This reinforces what you said about impedance. The timing of the battery "swap" is important. Do it too soon and the charge battery hasn't had enough time to recieve the 'gift' from the circuit. Do it too late and the source battery gets used up. The circuit draws 30 millamps to 300 millamps depending on the light you want.
I have decided that what I just built will have to be given energy regularly to keep it running. The question is how much? Was this all worth it or not? --- I think so.

Lidmotor

[shlodo]

Bravo Lidmotor! and some info about Charging Batteries

I finally boxed the thing. I call it a "Halo Light".

YouTube - Lidmotor Halo Light

Lidmotor

Simply Brilliant Lidmotor!!! I love it, great boxed build! I have been eagerly awaiting to see what u came up with.
Great idea leaving the Voltage regulator in it. Where did u get that thing, its very versatile

wats your amp draw??

I cant seem to get the charging directly to the battery and light the Fluoro at the same time, its one or the other it seems.
Ive built a cap pulser but the light goes down momentarily.

wats your secret to getting the charging and good light on the Fluoro?? Is it your circular Fluoro? Im using a 60cm long tube...
even when i dial the amps up it still wont work??

Battery Charging
Ive had some experiance charging 12V battery with the JT. U might want to monitor the voltages carefully. I find that as the secondary battery charges up its good to lower the resistance (on the JT circuit). it will draw more but u'll charge it higher.
Its all about matching the impediance of the circuit to the battery, which Bedini talks about. When we first start charging the impediance in the battery is low and we can use a higher frequency (more resistance in the JT), but as we charge it the impediance of the battery increases so its good to make adjustments.

The problem with this is that the charge battery wants the circuit to draw more at the end of the charge, but the run battery has lost charge by the end and finds it harder to put out the increased amperage

Hope that helps
-shlodo

[Lidmotor]

"Halo Light"

I finally boxed the thing. I call it a "Halo Light".

YouTube - Lidmotor Halo Light

Lidmotor

[slayer007]

Hi Slayer,

Do you always use a bridge and capacitor off your secondary coil, before running it in the CFL?? Have you managed it without?

Thanks in advance and Nice work

PS, Why do you think ferrite cores are more effective than iron cores??? Ive been playing with both myself, and the ferrite ones do seem better for some reason. I saw on OU someone was using an air core. Anyone had any luck with that?

Hello Seth

No I don't always use a rectifier off the HV side with a cap.
It's just some thing differant I was trying it did seem to make the light brighter when only using one AA battery tho.
A photo flash cap worked good for that it would keep around 300v in the cap across the light when it was on.
Then I could send that to the base of the 2222 transistor allso to give it a little more boost.

I think the ferrite cores allow you to reach higher frequencies than an iron core.

I did try a couple air cores for just a regular JT with no pickup coil.
It did work ok but I don't think it would work to good with a secondary pickup coil.