Big Joule Theif

[Tectalabyss]

Some very useful info

Hi all.
Been pondering just how many turns I have on my single layer wrapped 2 3/8". I was wrapping toroid #2 so I can do some comparison tests and I lost track, interrupted and what ever. Ah....30ga wire is .010, looked it up , measured it, and even with RS's red coating it measures .010. Ok, that 100 turns per inch. I do wrap tightly and make sure I dont over wrap. Can't measure the outside as it always will be "loose" with small gaps due to the larger dia than the inside, but the inner ring doesn't. I actually counted the outer ring wraps and was right at 350. I left a gap for the primary wind. Hmmm..ok that's abt 100-150 less turns than most schematics show for a good cfl. About 78% of what I need or most successful projects have posted. Actually, it's quite a bit since the voltage is multiplied across the # of turns and its 22% short! I took a piece of tape cut it to 1/4" wide and put it inside the core from where the wire started to where I ended, looked closely and nipped it with small scissors. The tape
Took it out and carefully laid it on a ruler. 3.5" dead on.

Ok, now I can do what I want without counting and be very close! A correct length can be cut for the 1st layer and put in the toroid before winding and just cover it. It could be marked and removed. If a second layer is needed, due to to space limitations, cut the length you need and after you've wrapped layer #1, put the correct length of tape on the inside again covering it or marking. I prefer to cover the 1st layer with stretched thin electrical tape. I split the tape by width as it leaves less over lap and keep the windings closer to the toroid.

Not all insulation will be the same. The clear seems to be a little thicker, still, you should be close without all that deep concentration. If another gauge wire is used for the long secondary wrap, now you can look it up and it's an easy calculation. If it were a really fine wire like the Fuji with 45ga, I tried it by marking a bamboo skewer stick 1/4" with an Xacto knife and wound from cut to cut. Works and you have a new multiplier.

Hope this helps some out as much as it has me.

Hello Vaporizer and All.
That is some very useful Info and will make it a lot easier to wind our coil's Thank you.

@NickZ.
I agree with you on the captret,There is more to it it. Just be careful has Vaporizer had stated.I use a fuse and put it in an open topped container.Good luck.Thanks to all. Tec

[Groundloop]

My big "Joule Thief"

@All,

Here is my big "Joule Thief". I have built and tested this circuit and it runs
well. You can get a very high voltage output with just a "few" turns of
enameled copper wire at the output toroid. This circuit can light a 230VAC
25 Watt normal light bulb. The circuit can also light up CFLs and tubes. It
can also desulphate and charge lead acid batteries.



Final note, do not touch the output when you run the circuit at high
input voltage and current. The output can be several hundreds of volt
with real amperage, and can harm you.



Groundloop.

[NickZ]

@ Groundloop:
Your double toroid circuit looks very interesting.
I have a bunch of questions, but what comes to mind is: what would happen if we were to use one main toroid with several secondaries. like you've done, but all the way around the main one. Like a 3 inch core with several other smaller toroids connected all around it? Possibly one of the secondaries could be used to feed-back to the source battery.
I'd be very interested to see more pictures or a video of your set up lighting a regular 25 volt bulb.
I'll be trying it with two one inch toroids to see what happens. Kooler mentioned that on his twin core Jtc using two cores made the voltage output a bit lower, but lowered the drain on the battery by a lot. If I understood him properly.
Sort of reminds me of the magamp. Could there be some similarities?
Thank you for sharing your results.
I'm still working on the Jt-Caprets tests, but will try your idea soon.
NZ

[Groundloop]

@NickZ,

I have not tried to use more than one secondary toroid. But I think your
idea is good. One thing though, the center coil (L3) needs to be tuned.
Too few turns and no output at all. To many turns and poor output.
I'm using the positive voltage "spike" every time the transistor is trigged
on, as you can see in the drawing, via a diode to trigger the coupling
coil (L3). This way the input enery can ONLY be transfeered to the output
at each power coil triggering. The polarity of the L3 also needs to be
correct. Connect the L3 the wrong way and no or poor output is the result.

The two toroid with a coil in the middle is an AC switch. AC (or pulsed DC)
can ONLY transfer to the second toroid if the coil is shorted out. No work
need to be done on the coil since you can actually use a on/off switch
for this. So my idea was to use the forward voltage spike when the transistor
turns on for this switching since we do not need to provide any power to
do so. I hope my english is good enough to explain what is happening.

The toroids do not need to be of the same size. You can actually use a
larger toroid for the output (the right one). Like I said before, the importaint
thing is the center coil (L3). It MUST have the correct LOW Ohm =
thick wire, but still HIGH enough inductance for the voltage pulse.
Best way is by trial end error. Begin with enough wire to make many turns
and then remove turns until the voltage get really high at the output.
If the voltage starts to go down then you have removed too many turns.

I do not make videos but here is a picture where I lit up a 25 Watt 230VAC
normal light bulb.



Here is a 15 Watt 230VAC Osram Tube lit up to almost full.
(Input usage was 15 Volt @ 0,86A.)



My circuit enclousere is an old data transfer switch metal box. LOL
If you have more questions then do not hesitate to ask.

Alex.

[NickZ]

Groundloop:
You have given us a lot of great information.
When using multiple secondaries, an additional inductor toroid for each secondary output can help to keeps the voltage more stable without dimming the other secondaries. So multiple secondaries around one big main toroid core should work fine. I've seen a diagram of the idea somewhere, if I can find it I'll attach a pic of it.
How many volts minimum input does it take to light your 25 watt, 220v bulb, full on?

[Groundloop]

@NickZ,

The circuit is not OU (yet) if that is what you are asking about.
I need approx. 35 Watt input to fully lit the 25 Watt 230VAC bulb.

I have some heating in the transistors and small heating in the
resistor and potmeter. But I think it should be possible to use Mosfet
switching or maybe other trasistor types to get the heating loss down.

Alex.

[synchro]

Finished job video.

I have a new Flash mod video of the finished product with a push button on off switch.

YouTube - zebok3's Channel

[Vaporizer]

Hi all,
Nice setup groundloop. I've read a lot of your work. Heat is tough to deal with as its very tough to recover. TEC's just arent that efficient. They can help though via the Seebeck effect, but you'll need the expensive ones that have a lot of junctions, not the cheap ones. Looks like you are abt 60% efficient now.

@ synchro,
Nice light. I like the dual circuit for more light staying with a single battery. You can use 1 battery for both or 1 for each depending on the time you need. I can see where you are going with it but I'm not sure you'll make it with a $15 solar charger. A bigger one, yes. My single camera circuits drew abt 130ma with a 9w "U" bulb. When I put 2 batteries in series the light came up to a more useable level , but the current went much higher. Most solar chargers ( low price) are putting out abt 50ma. With 8hrs of sun that 400ma. 130ma draw for 12 hrs is 1560ma. So, recovering that in 8hrs of solar is gonna be tough. Bedini chargers works well here. I have my small 12v mower battery thats been running 24/7 recharging everything I have and I've never had to recharge it. 20 min idling from my car would top it right off for another month in a bad situation. Keep us up on your progress. Can you post a link to that charger?

I just finished my toroid with the 2nd layer wrap. I figure it has abt 250-275 turns added now. So, thats 350 with 250 added. The electrical tape wont let you slide the wire tighter no matter how close you wrap. masking or painters tape may be a better choice.
Off to try it and I bet I need to change the primary as the core probably needs more saturation now. I wish the 140k LEDs would show up so I can start packing some up. Snowing tonight. It may get a workout! I have the bulbs mounted in hockey puck like bases. I should just finish a couple up since change out isnt that bad. I get side tracked way to easily and think of way to many things to try.....lol

[Tectalabyss]

Hi all,
Nice setup groundloop. I've read a lot of your work. Heat is tough to deal with as its very tough to recover. TEC's just arent that efficient. They can help though via the Seebeck effect, but you'll need the expensive ones that have a lot of junctions, not the cheap ones. Looks like you are abt 60% efficient now.

@ synchro,
Nice light. I like the dual circuit for more light staying with a single battery. You can use 1 battery for both or 1 for each depending on the time you need. I can see where you are going with it but I'm not sure you'll make it with a $15 solar charger. A bigger one, yes. My single camera circuits drew abt 130ma with a 9w "U" bulb. When I put 2 batteries in series the light came up to a more useable level , but the current went much higher. Most solar chargers ( low price) are putting out abt 50ma. With 8hrs of sun that 400ma. 130ma draw for 12 hrs is 1560ma. So, recovering that in 8hrs of solar is gonna be tough. Bedini chargers works well here. I have my small 12v mower battery thats been running 24/7 recharging everything I have and I've never had to recharge it. 20 min idling from my car would top it right off for another month in a bad situation. Keep us up on your progress. Can you post a link to that charger?

I just finished my toroid with the 2nd layer wrap. I figure it has abt 250-275 turns added now. So, thats 350 with 250 added. The electrical tape wont let you slide the wire tighter no matter how close you wrap. masking or painters tape may be a better choice.
Off to try it and I bet I need to change the primary as the core probably needs more saturation now. I wish the 140k LEDs would show up so I can start packing some up. Snowing tonight. It may get a workout! I have the bulbs mounted in hockey puck like bases. I should just finish a couple up since change out isnt that bad. I get side tracked way to easily and think of way to many things to try.....lol

Hello All.
Vaporizer please explain the seebeck effect? I checked my battery on the 12th day of running my test JT and its still at 1.267 volts not great but I would not say inefficient. I plan on running it till it gets to right under 1 volt then adding a secondary and going from there.My other JT is doing ok has well. Thanks. Tectalabyss

[Vaporizer]

Hi Tec all,
When using a TEC or "peltier device" voltage is applied and one side cools releasing the heat from the other face.
The Seebeck Effect is when no voltage is applied and heat is applied to one side the other side cools and the leads produce voltage.
Thermoelectric effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its basically 2 plates with many P & N junctions between the plates. The main thing is to keep one side as diff in temp as you can. If you put one side on a cpu, add voltage it cools the cpu but the other face get hot. So, its heat sinked. In our case a transistor could be allowed to run hot with a heatsink(sealed), use Arctic Thermal Adhesive to bond it and on the other face bond a heatsink open to the air or fan cooled. The hotter it heats the TEC the more voltage it produces and with a diode could be fed back into the circuit.

You'll see many 40mm one for sale cheap. Please dont waste your money. They have a max of 32 junctions and produce very little. Better ones that might stand a chance have 64 junctions and can cost abt $50 ea. Ouch!

[Tectalabyss]

Thanks for the reply

Hi Tec all,
When using a TEC or "peltier device" voltage is applied and one side cools releasing the heat from the other face.
The Seebeck Effect is when no voltage is applied and heat is applied to one side the other side cools and the leads produce voltage.
Thermoelectric effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its basically 2 plates with many P & N junctions between the plates. The main thing is to keep one side as diff in temp as you can. If you put one side on a cpu, add voltage it cools the cpu but the other face get hot. So, its heat sinked. In our case a transistor could be allowed to run hot with a heatsink(sealed), use Arctic Thermal Adhesive to bond it and on the other face bond a heatsink open to the air or fan cooled. The hotter it heats the TEC the more voltage it produces and with a diode could be fed back into the circuit.

You'll see many 40mm one for sale cheap. Please dont waste your money. They have a max of 32 junctions and produce very little. Better ones that might stand a chance have 64 junctions and can cost abt $50 ea. Ouch!

Hello Vaporizer and All.
I see Thank you for the explanation.I read your post on winding it was very helpful makes it a lot simpler too Its so easy to lose count when the grand kids are down Thanks Tec

[Vaporizer]

On another note, I was testing my new toroid with the dual layer secondary. Odd to say the least. It sings, lights the LED and puts out nothing on the secondary. I swapped wires, changed the transistor, pot I even unhooked the secondary. It acts strange. Even though it sings and will change frequency, I can never get the LED to go out. Its on all the time, although it will vary with the 1K pot some....
I measured the secondary for shorts. Nothing. I cut the second layer from the 1st to see if it would light a cfl as the 1st one did. Nope, neither layer or both.
For a last ditch test I unhooked the circuit and tapped 12v across the primary winding. Each secondary wind will flick the cfl on and if they are wired back like normal it flashes brighter. It won't do a thing on 1 or 2 AA though other than sing. I replace the primary winding too with one with 10 winds each side. No diff.
All I can figure is the core is defective somehow.

Ideas?

[Tectalabyss]

On another note, I was testing my new toroid with the dual layer secondary. Odd to say the least. It sings, lights the LED and puts out nothing on the secondary. I swapped wires, changed the transistor, pot I even unhooked the secondary. It acts strange. Even though it sings and will change frequency, I can never get the LED to go out. Its on all the time, although it will vary with the 1K pot some....
I measured the secondary for shorts. Nothing. I cut the second layer from the 1st to see if it would light a cfl as the 1st one did. Nope, neither layer or both.
For a last ditch test I unhooked the circuit and tapped 12v across the primary winding. Each secondary wind will flick the cfl on and if they are wired back like normal it flashes brighter. It won't do a thing on 1 or 2 AA though other than sing. I replace the primary winding too with one with 10 winds each side. No diff.
All I can figure is the core is defective somehow.

Ideas?

@Vaporizer.
try a bridge rectifier on the secondary then check the voltage ?Add a higher resistor between base and pot to base? Tec

[Vaporizer]

Hi Tec,
Tnx for the suggestions. I had my fingers on the output and not a tingle. lol
I'll try the higher pot. Like I said, its oscillating, but weird. Normally I have no LED on, I can bring it from nothing thru dim to full then it drops to off. This ones on all the time. It may need a higher pot due to the high kickback from all the winds. Odd it would be like that with no secondary connected at all, just open.
Might be a hot or cold toroid. At this point I can't say. I have enough to not have to worry abt stripping it.

[NickZ]

@V:
Maybe it's getting too much juice and blinks off?
I have that with one of my Jts, I can only use a rather dead battery, then it uses up the charge pretty quick also. I still can't find the right pot.
It turned out to be a bad transistor for me, since they get hot and don't work right.