Big Joule Theif

[jeanna]

@vortex,
I think the permeability is the important thing to find out.
It may be too low.
But, it might be perfect??


@Lidmotor,
Yes, I have thought about jonnydavro's aluminum pie pan experiments too.
Many things are coming together, here.

@Jeanna
That is a bunch of light coming out of that little toroid. "More please". What do the secondaries look like? Maybe a little LED version of the JLJL in a smaller box??

The 2 secondaries are wound differently from each other.
I had a hunch that if I did one of them in a way that got much higher voltage that the second one could gett a ride from that and could just be there, so the second is 'scramble-wound' but I kept it all on one side of the first secondary.

That first secondary is something I derived from using the MK1 style, which I have always liked a lot.
I was thinking of 3 phase one day and wondered if I used 3 directions of winds (which is the MK1) and made each segment a multiple or maybe exponent of the first, if I could get 3 phase.

The answer to that was no.

But, what I did get was about twice the voltage from the same number of turns.
I must say I have had really high volts before, but they required a very specific set of elements (to be at resonance) and would quickly degrade and the effect would be gone.
So, one of my criteria is that the bandwidth be wide enough to take a change without much loss. (and this is why I used the xtree in my experiments. It is really stable.)

So, to make this secondary that is in this one I have total 84T.
This number is divided by 7, so 12T go into each segment. Or, x=12
You will always wind (turn) around the toroid the same way but your progression will change.

Start a little to the left of center and wind 12T progressing to the left (actually 13 turns to give you 12 spaces.)
Proceed to the right carefully placing each turn into the 12 spaces. Continue 12 more turns to the right (again add one).
On this final lap you carefully wind 4 turns in each of the 12 spaces.

So, you end up in the center. You can keep the extra 2 or take them off, but I keep them because I usually lose count anyway.

On the big golden toroid (JLJL) I made x=30T but instead of 4T in the final lap I used 8T ... for a total of 330T for my secondary. Wow, I put the scope away at 1400volts!

I am still playing with this, but yesterday put the first one to the test, and it has worked beautifully.

I already made 6 videos on this circuit with multiple secondaries, so I won't be making more until I change the circuit, but if I can make one that works, I will post a video showing this winding method.
(MK1jeannaHybrid)

I found a source for boxes. They are from ritz camera and unfinished and cheap enough. They are a bit big for the one tiny 10w cfl, and I am thinking, a strip or ring of leds under a diffuser of some kind could work well.

I will make a pic when I have something using the box.

thank you,

jeanna

[Vortex]

Toroid (ICH) H5C2T31X8X1 1.23 O.D 0.718 I.D. 0.218 Thick
$1 each or $0.75 for 10+

is bigger better?
(ICH) FEROD-8 Ferrite rod. Material 43. 1/2" diameter x 8" long. for $0.35 each

I have no idea but could "Magnetic ferrite rod antenna" be used to pick up energy from Jonnydavro's new circuit producing HV?

[Lidmotor]

Wanderings

@Jeanna
That is a bunch of light coming out of that little toroid. "More please". What do the secondaries look like? Maybe a little LED version of the JLJL in a smaller box??
I have also been "wandering" around and have been working on a replication of Jonnydavro's new circuit. He uses just one transistor, an HV trigger coil, and some aluminum pans to make an excited environment that self-oscillates producing HV all around it. The base of the transistor gets the feedback through the air.

Lidmotor

[jeanna]

Hi everybody,
I am getting some samples from the manufacturer of those toroids.
I am also getting a smaller diameter toroid, because the big one is so heavy.

I will let you know.

But I wanted to tell you guys about my experimental circuit.
It is even farther from slayer's big joule thief, but I hope it is ok since the topic has wandered.
I have made a new toroid winding design (in fact, I tried it out on the golden light = jeanna's lidmotor's jeanna's light) This one is very little gets 172 volts, and it lights a neon from a 1.2v battery. It's voltage is very stable, and does not rely on the most perfect tuning to get a good voltage. It is higher by almost 2 than anything I ever got with this .5 in toroid.

I brightly lit the 30 leds in my experimental circuit and added 4 more for the safety of the leds.
Would you like to see a pic?
Of course you would!

Pic is called Multiple secondaries full brightness
87mA for 34 leds in series.

jeanna

[morpher44]

out of toroids...

Buy the way I can't find any other source for that core. I wish that I had bought a few more before they ran out.
Lidmotor

They probably ran out because everyone wanted to replicated the
Jeanna/Lidmotor light.

Way to stimulate the economy.

Really folks .. you can make coils out of all sorts of stuff.
The other day I was eye-ing an old truck wheel hub.
This sucker is a HUGE ... massive toroid of rusty steel.
You could wire up a coils for a Joule Thief or Rodin coil
using a wheel hub.
It might be a more difficult conversation piece ... since it weighs
about 50 lbs ...
But massive metal like this has a great effect in terms of
energy storage in your coil. I imagine all the little mini molecules
in it spinning around magnetically as your coil gets it going.
The metal acts as a sort of fly-wheel magnetically ... causing
the coil to have LARGE inductance.

With something even more massive like this, it might be
possible to light up some grow-lights for plants.
Imagine being able to provide light for your plants during
the winter using "earth batteries".
Such a strategy would provide the ability for food production
during winter years or in locations far from the equator.

Also, I would love to see experiments done powering
the big joule thieves using non-battery sources such as
teeny-tiny wind generators, little water wheels, steam engines
run from a candle, bicycle generators, gerbal/mouse-wheel
generators, hand-crank generators with capacitors,
thermopiles, ambient energy generators, antenna VLF-to-RF
power source, leaching power from dongles & transformers,
new battery chemisties, magnetic resonance.

In the mid 90s, gangs of techy punks used to go around
and TAG buildings to indicate sources of free wireless routers.
It seems to me that free wireless power is FAIR game
as well.
Let the Joule Thievery begin!!!!

[Mark]

Hey jeanna my 32 watt tube bulbs are pretty skinny not your normal commercial overhead size. There were from a light kit I was going to put in my walkin closet, bulbs are made by Phillips. I wish I had a 8 footer to try.

[jeanna]

YEAY
Fantastic Mark

I love the way the lights respond to us.
It makes them seem more alive.

See if an aluminum pie plate or foil on the wall will do the same.

I think it is so interesting also that you can get a lot of these in series once the first one is lit.
My cfl did not get any dimmer when I added the tube to the string.
But I have not been able to add 2 cfl's in series... come to think of it, I don't have 2 modified 10w so maybe I could get 2 of them to turn on?

Very nice.
The fat tubes have a lot of gas, and the gas has to get "excited" for it to glow.
I was not able to get the 48 inch to light but the same diameter 24" worked just fine.

My house is cold. The funny thing about this is that the lights do not warm up after a while. Normally they warm up and also brighten.
So, wrap your hands around the ends and see if warming helps to brighten the warmer spot.

And, of course 3 volts instead of 1.5volts... but that is cheating!

======
All,
I am looking into a catalogue from the manufacturer of these toroids.

I think I have narrowed down my request to 3 toroids.
I would like to make the light go on with a smaller toroid, if possible, and I know you are all waiting for the supply of the 3.38" one to open up.

The southern CA distributor just suggested I go to the manufacturer, which I will do. Hopefully we can get somewhere with a local distributor who has a low minimum.
The toroids themselves are not too much, but the $30 minimum is a lot for one lamp.

I will return when there is more info for you.

jeanna

[Mark]

Hi Jeanna

Your not going to believe this but I can light up 2 of the 32 watt tube bulbs in series with a AAA battery. Pretty dim but they both light right up.

I also put a couple of D cells in series for input and both bulbs light up pretty good.

Now here is something really cool. I can light up both bulbs with just 1 wire on each bulb! Dim but both are lit with one wire. Used my hands to make the series connection and they lit up bright again.

Mark

[Mark]

Hello everyone

Just wanted to let you know that I'm able to light up a 4 foot 32 watt tube with 1.2 volts. Its not very bright but it does light. I've played a little with my primary wraps but without a scope its hard to tell whats going on.

Jeanna your 20 watt cfl looks supper bright to me!

Not sure how you got it so bright, Ive tried to replicate it but yours seems so much brighter. My primary winds are with 23 awg and my secondary is 26 if it matters.

Anyways just wanted to say thanks for all your efforts and

Mark

[jeanna]

Thanks lidmotor,

(Ah yes, the eyes glaze over and I know if I simply stopped mid sentence that no one would notice. )

Thanks for the battery info.
You answered both my questions because I wanted to know if any bedini reconditioning was adding to the time.
And the answer is 'no, not in this case.'

We are working hard on finding more of those toroids.

The manufacturer has a few distributors.
The price will be close to what allelectronics sold them for.
I found one distributor who has a $30 minimum.
I will continue to do this and be back.
I too want this to be something everyone can make.

thank you,

jeanna

[Lidmotor]

The JLJL

Hi everybody,
I just put my cfl light JLJL in series with a fluorescent tube. And they both lit.

I took some pix and loaded them here:

4 pics on the ou joule thief thread

The first one shows a 20w cfl plus a 7w tube.
then I used a 15w tube
then a 20w tube.

Finally I showed just the 20w tube by itself.

thank you,

jeanna

edit
I also want to add the following.
I bought a 10w cfl just like lidmotor's and it is now in the center of that big golden toroid.
I have the full range of use from the rheostat, and it looks like a real replication.
I plan to check the timing with a fresh battery.

@lidmotor,
Did you use a duracell AA straight from the store?
I am wondering if the one you used was recharged by your bedini charging circuit?

thank you,

jeanna

@Jeanna
Your light sitting in the "Big Gold" toroid looks great. I can't wait to see the boxed version. I noticed that Pirate has a nice box now for his. These make a nice conversation piece. People ask, "What's that" and then you can rattle on for hours and bore everyone to death.
I used a fresh alkaline AA in mine. It is a Costco one (Duracell lookalike). You know ----we could make a charger out of this also by grabbing the BEMF off somewhere but then I really like the pure simplicity of this design. Maybe we should just leave it alone as a pure classic.
I have been working with Kick-Bak's idea and took apart a micro wave oven fan motor yesterday to use the coil. So far I am not getting the same results. Obviously his motor and mine were different. I can get it to light up the CFL but only if I run it at higher voltage. Your big toroid it still the winner for the most amount of light out a AA for the least amount of power. Buy the way I can't find any other source for that core. I wish that I had bought a few more before they ran out.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[jeanna]

CFL plus F Tube in series!

Hi everybody,
I just put my cfl light JLJL in series with a fluorescent tube. And they both lit.

I took some pix and loaded them here:

4 pics on the ou joule thief thread

The first one shows a 20w cfl plus a 7w tube.
then I used a 15w tube
then a 20w tube.

Finally I showed just the 20w tube by itself.

thank you,

jeanna

edit
I also want to add the following.
I bought a 10w cfl just like lidmotor's and it is now in the center of that big golden toroid.
I have the full range of use from the rheostat, and it looks like a real replication.
I plan to check the timing with a fresh battery.

@lidmotor,
Did you use a duracell AA straight from the store?
I am wondering if the one you used was recharged by your bedini charging circuit?

thank you,

jeanna

[jeanna]

If the frequency increases, the coil may not be reaching it's maximum magnetic field, so when current is withdrawn, the voltage spike will be lower.

For every coil, there will be a certain pulse width time for a certain amplitude that saturates the coil.

So after a certain frequency is achieved, the voltage output may decline

For example; http://a7.vox.com/6a0110169c703a860d01240b7e9a77860e-pi

However I don't know if this translates to the Joule thief circuit.

Hi inquorate,
I was noticing the relationship I just described and one day I mentioned it.
I was hit with a bunch of comments telling me I was wrong.

Your explanation could be right.
I only know that I would be tuning the jt by turning the pot at the base of the transistor and this was very clear and very consistent.
After a couple of challenges, I checked this out by changing the number of turns on the core. Adding turns will increase the volts, and sure enough, the frequency went down.

It was recognizing this that got me working on that multiple secondaries circuit.
I learned other things and I am still at it, but for anyone working with a JT as the pulse creator circuit, this information is essential.

Tesla could over ride this because he could pulse the sparks independently from the voltage.

thank you,

jeanna

[redrichie]

was looking into some Tesla research today and came to NAudins page. This is the Free Electrons Pump V.2. Ive looked at this before and didnt realize till now That this is basically the same thing as were using except on a ferrite rod and uses a spherical capacitor. Right? heres the link:
Free Electrons Pump v2.0 by Jean-Louis Naudin

[Inquorate]

If the frequency increases, the coil may not be reaching it's maximum magnetic field, so when current is withdrawn, the voltage spike will be lower.

For every coil, there will be a certain pulse width time for a certain amplitude that saturates the coil.

So after a certain frequency is achieved, the voltage output may decline

For example; http://a7.vox.com/6a0110169c703a860d01240b7e9a77860e-pi

However I don't know if this translates to the Joule thief circuit.