Gray Tube Replication

[Aaron]

effect signature

Dear Aaron,

I don't know about circuit "B" but......

I have just completed my first run simulation of the "A" circuit as you show. A very interesting classical response takes place in the spark gap (spark plug). After the first high current break down arc there is a few microsecond delay and then a relatitive long (10 uS) RF burst of constant magnitude High Current rapid sawtooth pulses (300 amp) - Most Interesting.

The ignition coil modeled used the parameters of a MDS "Blaster 2". The supply voltage was 250V into a 30 uF capacitor operating at a pulse frequency of 95 Hz. At this rate - about 400 watts would be needed. The diode needs to be able to have a PIV rating greater than the breakdown voltage of the gap. In this example I used 10 KV. The current requirement for the diode is moderate at 18 Amps so a couple of Micorwave Oven diodes in series would work.

The real circuit stress is in the switch used. It has to be able to withstand the primary kickback voltage - which goes to several hundred KV without any snubbing device. I suspect that a Zener or Varistor might work here since the total energy coming out of the primary is managable. It apears that snubbing the primary kickback has no effect on the RF burst process - provided that the switch stays closed long enough for the burst to finish up (about 100 uS).

In my example a FFF of the burst shows a center frequency of 728 KHz. This assumes that the gap is fast enough to disrupt when the current falls below 100 mA.

The burst frequency appears to be a function of the secondary parasitic capacitance and the indutance of the primary. There is some kind of relationship between the secondary and the primary that determines the nature and structure of this RF burst. I suppose the coupling factor is important as well.

Anyway, has anyone reported on this RF burst process or perhaps seen it in a scope trace? I suppose it will only happen in spark gaps where the response time can match the freqency supported by the circuit parameters. Carbon to Metal electrodes might improve on the response because of the negative resistance properties that can be obtained.

Now to build this and see if this is what really happens. I can easily see why this kind of arc will have unique properties as compared to ordinary discharges.

I will have to model your circuit 'B' and see how it performs.

Spokane1

Hi Mark,

In reality, it is easier for circuit B to work if there is also a diode from the front side capacitor to the top of the ignition coil as well - but not always necessary. The plasma burst does a better job of giving sufficient ionization of the gap for the cap in parallel to discharge over the gap.

But I have found on my experiments that if the cap is charged to a high enough voltage, a regular CDI discharge without that diode on the front side will work just fine in allowing enough ionization at the gap to allow the parallel cap to discharge.

Here are actual scope shots comparing with and without a diode.

http://www.energeticforum.com/42113-post365.html

I'll repost it here:

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diode increases HV cap discharge speed
I'm reposting these messages from Greg - from the Water Sparkplug thread. I thought Lee posted the first scope shot on this but I guess it was Greg. This shows that with the diode, the discharge from the cap increases to virtually instantaneous...you can see this clearly.

A great majority of the cap discharges instantaneously (straight line coming down) then it slows towards the end. Without the diode, it is a slower steady discharge over time.

Here is with the right circuit:
YouTube - Gray Tube Test
It is definitely not a "hv spark" and when the grid is connected, this is what popped a magnet from the coil.

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---------------------------------

09-02-2008, 08:54 PM
gmeast vbmenu_register("postmenu_28271", true);
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 381


The Effect's Signature!
Hi everybody,

I have now configured my Water Spark Plug circuit to trigger off of the line sine wave. That means that the circuit is operating at 60 Hz. It was only after I got it running this fast was I able to connect the characteristic "SNAP" or "CRACK" with the oscilloscope trace. I will post a video that will show the signature wave form appearing and disappearing in synchronization with the characteristic sound as the circuit misses an occasional beat.

But first I will show you the O-Scope traces. You have already seen them if you viewed my last video. The attachments below are the scope captures that appeared in the video. The Cap discharge trace with the 'crook' in it was thought to be the trace where the HV diode is merely included in the circuit (which it is), and the 'smoother' trace is without the HV diode (which it is). But further, however, the trace with the crook in it IS the signature of the effect ... or more clearly ... the CROOK itself IS the signature of the effect.

This is all very exciting! I will compile the video as quickly as I can so you all can see that the effect actually has a 'face'.

Thank you. Peace,

Greg
Attached Thumbnails

-----------------------------------

09-03-2008, 08:16 PM
gmeast vbmenu_register("postmenu_28386", true);
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 381


new video of signature trace
Hi all,

As I said I would do in a recent reply, I have posted a new video showing the unique wave form characteristic of the water spark plug circuit discharge cycle. Please note the time period in the video is 250u-sec per division so the signature is not casually apparent. My new Gotoluc-Lindemann circuit version operates at 60 Hz and is powered by two Mosfet packages triggered by integral opto-isolated inputs. These inputs are excited by two external resistor divider networks phased 180 deg. from each other via the full bridge rectifier. At present I am still limited to lower voltages and currents by the inrush ratings of the Mosfets. I will be reverting to triacs for the generator set tests however. They have an 800V rating.

The new video is located here:

YouTube - sgnature trace

Thanks. Peace,

Greg

[antena]

Cop

Antena,

This particular ignition coil is Peter's and we used the basic setup for an ignition setup on a lawnmower. I really don't know the voltage rating. I am using CDI (capacitive discharge) on the primary so the voltage will be higher coming out anyway.

With this setup, I can make the ignition coil jump 1 inch, which is about 25 mm so 25 X 3300 volts per mm = 82500 volts capability and maybe more, I haven't made a gap bigger than that.

The smaller gap allows for quicker switching and the rotor gets much faster.

What do you mean by definite voltage, do you mean that if the gap is too big, the voltage pressure will cross shoot to other wires in the circuit since it tries to get to ground somehow?

Definite voltage is max voltage of capacitors or diodes, if U have 6x1200=7200V caps U dont have to go over this voltage with ignition coil otherwise U can destroy caps....
Now it is needed to find good frequency of radiant event to get COP >1.
Peter Lindemann sayd that Tesla got COP 10-100 )))
Someone was talking about that at low frequencies radiant energy is cold and at high it is warm (or vice versa)...
Have fun
Antena

[antena]

Cop

Antena,

This particular ignition coil is Peter's and we used the basic setup for an ignition setup on a lawnmower. I really don't know the voltage rating. I am using CDI (capacitive discharge) on the primary so the voltage will be higher coming out anyway.

With this setup, I can make the ignition coil jump 1 inch, which is about 25 mm so 25 X 3300 volts per mm = 82500 volts capability and maybe more, I haven't made a gap bigger than that.

The smaller gap allows for quicker switching and the rotor gets much faster.

What do you mean by definite voltage, do you mean that if the gap is too big, the voltage pressure will cross shoot to other wires in the circuit since it tries to get to ground somehow?

Definite voltage is max voltage of capacitors or diodes, if U have 6x1200=7200V caps U dont have to go over this voltage with ignition coil otherwise U can destroy caps....
Now it is needed to find good frequency of radiant event to get COP >1.
Peter Lindemann sayd that Tesla got COP 10-100 )))
Someone was talking about that at low frequencies radiant energy is cold and at high it is warm (or vice versa)...
Have fun
Antena

[pranav2010]

new book

There appears to be a new eBook out on Gray's engine, which might be interesting:

High Voltage & Free Energy Devices Handbook - 07/04/06

i have this book but i don't know how to send this file in threat

[Spokane1]

SPICE III Simulation of Water Sparkplug Circuit

Can anyone reproduce the effect with Picture B?[/U][/I][/B][/COLOR] Because if the idea is correct, the HV spark should make a less conductive pathway so that capacitor C2 should simply discharge through the gap.

Dear Aaron,

I don't know about circuit "B" but......

I have just completed my first run simulation of the "A" circuit as you show. A very interesting classical response takes place in the spark gap (spark plug). After the first high current break down arc there is a few microsecond delay and then a relatitive long (10 uS) RF burst of constant magnitude High Current rapid sawtooth pulses (300 amp) - Most Interesting.

The ignition coil modeled used the parameters of a MDS "Blaster 2". The supply voltage was 250V into a 30 uF capacitor operating at a pulse frequency of 95 Hz. At this rate - about 400 watts would be needed. The diode needs to be able to have a PIV rating greater than the breakdown voltage of the gap. In this example I used 10 KV. The current requirement for the diode is moderate at 18 Amps so a couple of Micorwave Oven diodes in series would work.

The real circuit stress is in the switch used. It has to be able to withstand the primary kickback voltage - which goes to several hundred KV without any snubbing device. I suspect that a Zener or Varistor might work here since the total energy coming out of the primary is managable. It apears that snubbing the primary kickback has no effect on the RF burst process - provided that the switch stays closed long enough for the burst to finish up (about 100 uS).

In my example a FFF of the burst shows a center frequency of 728 KHz. This assumes that the gap is fast enough to disrupt when the current falls below 100 mA.

The burst frequency appears to be a function of the secondary parasitic capacitance and the indutance of the primary. There is some kind of relationship between the secondary and the primary that determines the nature and structure of this RF burst. I suppose the coupling factor is important as well.

Anyway, has anyone reported on this RF burst process or perhaps seen it in a scope trace? I suppose it will only happen in spark gaps where the response time can match the freqency supported by the circuit parameters. Carbon to Metal electrodes might improve on the response because of the negative resistance properties that can be obtained.

Now to build this and see if this is what really happens. I can easily see why this kind of arc will have unique properties as compared to ordinary discharges.

I will have to model your circuit 'B' and see how it performs.

Spokane1

[lamare]

New Book

There appears to be a new eBook out on Gray's engine, which might be interesting:

High Voltage & Free Energy Devices Handbook - 07/04/06

[Mark]

Aaron I think you made your point.

Don't waste your time everyone knows your right. Dont let him get you upset he's just trying to ruffle you.

Peace be with you.

[Aaron]

booster cap development - LV source development

http://www.energeticforum.com/23287-post126.html

That post is from the Water Sparkplug thread July 2008. This is the post where I show the concept of the booster cap and that it should be able to work and of course it did work.

This post also reveals the key to the Gray circuit.

--------------------------------------------------

Electrotek's verification of MY development of the booster circuit.

http://www.energeticforum.com/40532-post232.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrotek
Aaron has developed a booster circuit using a parallel cap (around .65 uf) from a MW Oven, charged to 2kV with that transformer. I'm anxious to see if the booster cap will work with a CSET.

---------------------------------------------------------------


a simple question

The A picture is my simple drawing of the bare bones water spark plug effect method. When the capacitor C1 discharges, it is 100% isolated from both terminals from any power supply. The ONLY input into the coil for the effect is whatever is charged into the cap. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is possible that adding high current pulse from a power supply increases the effect, but lets leave that as a separate issue to deal with because it is a fact that the basic effect IS able to be reproduced over and over with only a charged up photo flash capacitor.

The idea I see expressed as to why the effect happens is this:

1. Close S1 to discharge C1 into the primary of ignition coil
2. HV winding outputs HV pulse to the spark plug causing an arc.
3. The arc gives enough of a conductive pathway for whatever is left in the capacitor to discharge over the gap therefore adding a low voltage pulse to the high voltage pulse.

This is what is claimed.

In picture B, based on what the popular claim for the mechanism, the following would be true, correct?

1. Close S1 to discharge C1 into primary of ignition coil.
2. HV winding outputs HV pulse to the spark plug causing an arc.
3. The arc gives enough of a conductive pathway for C2 to discharge adding to the HV pulse that left the coil.

If the claim for this operating method is accurate, there is no reason why picture B wouldn't work.

C2 is charged to the same voltage as C1.

In picture A, when C1 discharges, there is even less left in the cap to go through the HV diode in order to add it's low voltage pulse to the original HV pulse.

Therefore, by having C2 charged up the same in picture B is definitely increasing the chance for the same effect because after all, if C1 discharged, you have C2 fully charged and if the HV arc across plug really gave a conductive pathway for the cap to discharge through in Picture A, that means that there is no reason whatsoever that C2 wouldn't do the same thing.

If the effect can be duplicated with the schematic in Picture B...and I'm talking about having 2 capacitors and BOTH are totally isolated from any power supply...2 caps sitting there charged...and Pic B is sucessful in having the same effect, then I think there is merit in the idea that the HV spark makes a less resistive path for the low voltage to jump across making the magical water spark.

If Pic B fails to produce the same effect, then the idea of how Pic A works needs to be examined and some other ideas that may or may not have been proposed needs to be addressed.

Can anyone reproduce the effect with Picture B? Because if the idea is correct, the HV spark should make a less conductive pathway so that capacitor C2 should simply discharge through the gap.

[Aaron]

@ Electrotek - documentation beats conversation - part 2

Here is where you refer to that dang blasted WATER SPARKPLUG circuit again even though these days you want to denounce it as having nothing to do with the Gray circuit, yet you say it is so dang similar to it in your older posts. Cognitive dissonance?

http://www.energeticforum.com/43931-post531.html

I wonder if it's possible to produce the Water Sparkplug effect using the heavy current from a battery? Perhaps the battery could be in the position of the second, booster cap. I'll try this when I get around to setting up the circuit.

PS: Here's a picture of my green spark. This isn't a phase conjugate effect, so the color is caused by the electrode material, rather than the frequency. This is 800 Joules and is completely silent.

Right above you describe how your effect is NOT a "phase conjugate effect" and that your green is from the electrode material. Well, I have shown repeatedly that mine is not from the copper so how in the world can my circuits be plagarizing yours when yours can't do what mine does?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

What the Flux makes a very accurate and common sense observation:

http://www.energeticforum.com/44950-post640.html

If Aaron's description is the only mechanism happening, we could just use three solid electrodes arranged appropriately. I have to believe that Gray's team wouldn't have gone to the expense of designing the CSETs as they were, if the grids didn't have some function other than just being a node.

Is there a secondary phenomenon happening here?

Tube could be to throw people off since Gray didn't know what he was doing. WTF says three solid electrodes arranged appropriately. Yes, just like in MY diagram with 3 points. Each point is analagous to each point in the tube, which is completely different from the Electrotek circuit. AND what I show in a simple common sense manner in my videos.

---------------------------------------------------------------
"Originally Posted by Aaron

If that isn't what Gray had, then I discovered how to change the inductance of an inductor allowing a super fast discharge into it even with super thin wire and a lot of windings to give a super fast magnetic pop. I don't know anyone else that has ever done this and if Gray or Marvin Cole did, then I found what they did."


Electrotek Says: "Aaron: Don't you remember that I discussed this same thing, back in message 170 (page 6), using the setup I detailed in message 156? I was hoping that someone would get the idea to "change the inductance". I don't think anyone is ever the only one to do anything.
Here is where you start getting stirred up:"

http://www.energeticforum.com/45017-post647.html

You hoped someone would get the idea to change the inductance. Why would you want someone to get the idea to do that when you aren't doing it yourself? I ALREADY was demonstrating it.

Don't you remember you said:
"With my circuit, the cap discharges too slowly through the coil to produce a usable effect.

That means you haven't figured out how to change the inductance of your coil with your circuit(s), yet I'm plagarizing you? Sounds like you need some catching up to do.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here is where I address the issue of you being left out of being given recognition that you discussed changing inductance before.

http://www.energeticforum.com/45061-post651.html

Electrotek,

Yes, I remember your posts about that and explanations about your diagram. I apparently already had the idea but saw them in my own way with the gas pressure analogies. I hardly ever refer to these concepts in EE terms because that isn't what is natural for me.

I was ALREADY discussing it in the past in gas pressure analogies so shame on me for not immediately recognizing what you mentioned. If I had a long history of EE experience like you, I might not have overlooked your mention of changing the inductance.

Nevertheless, I believe my actual demonstrations of a coil with apparent changes in inductance carry more weight than talking about it and carry more weight than circuits that do not have these inductance changes.

I think I saw you mention that you coils offer normal impedance to a cap discharge somewhere.... oh, here it is:

"With my circuit, the cap discharges too slowly through the coil to produce a usable effect.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Below you talk about how my setup is EQUIVALENT (that means the SAME AS) the "one way energy path" in Gray's patent.

http://www.energeticforum.com/45155-post665.html

With Aaron's setup, his Tube is equivalent to the "one way energy path". If he connects his grid to the electrode of a Power Conversion CSET, with multiple grids, the pulse from his Tube might produce Radiant Energy within the CSET, charging the capacitor.

EQUIVALENT - thank you so much for seeing this plain as day. It is no mystery that you recognize my circuit as being like Gray's and that your circuit is unable to do anything like mine. Wow, equivelant. So you claim in recent posts mine isn't like Gray's...yet it is...yet it isn't...yet it is...yet it isn't...yet it is... I'm starting to see a pattern...

---------------------------------------------------------------

Here you go extolling the virtues of the water sparkplug circuit again!

http://www.energeticforum.com/45691-post737.html

It's quite easy to set off an EMP, using the Water Sparkplug circuit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here you go again acknowleding that I had previously discussed the use of diodes without a gap or with a gap that the diodes aren't needed.

http://www.energeticforum.com/46547-post828.html

Aaron: You say your "effect" will work with either a diode or an additional external spark gap. (message 728, page 25). I'm wondering how the spark gap "slams shut"? Perhaps the more rapid capacitor discharge is related to the increased volume of the discharge path?

------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course this is what I said:

http://www.energeticforum.com/46576-post830.html

The hv will jump spark gap and compress against the coil/cap or just cap if no coil. I'll see if I can find the patents that show this as well. In most of this, I have found that a diode can replace most of the gap or a gap can replace the diodes.

Tesla didn't have diodes...depending on what he was doing, he used gaps as one way valves.

----------------------------------------------------------------

There are many more posts from you Electrotek to show that anything you are claiming or discussing about my circuit now is 100% fabricated. I wonder if someone put you up to making false accusations against me? Anyway, the above is AMPLE PROOF of you contradicting yourself over and over and over.

Any more contradictions or other things that reveal your intention, understanding, etc...? There may be...

[Aaron]

@ Electrotek - documentation beats conversation

Electrotek - Documentation beats conversation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's where Jerry acclaims the value of Luc's spark plug circuit and here's where he gives me credit for showing how to use it to dump a secondary cap, which is shown in the diagram he claims I stole from him. He says his circuit is a version of the water sparkplug circuit even though he tries to now claim my circuits are not like Gray's and his are - but here he says the water sparkplug circuit is so close to what Ed Gray is doing!

http://www.energeticforum.com/39223-post135.html

I have another circuit which is a high powered version of the Water Sparkplug circuit - at least it's similar and produces the same kind of effect. When I discharge this circuit through a light bulb, the bulb explodes. The filament is left intact, but one of the thin tungsten support wires is vaporized. Since the Water Sparkplug circuit is so close to what Ed Gray was doing, I doubt that he was using this type of vacuum diode. The patent does call it a "one way" energy path, but I've learned that you can't always trust everything a patent says. It's quite posible that there was some kind of secondary emission effect in the tube he was using, which John Bedinni says was a thyratron. That's the tremendous value of Luc's circuit. Aaron has shown how to use it to dump a secondary cap, so an expensive IGBT isn't needed for the CSET.

Here's my spark plug circuit. Until now, I couldn't use it with a spark plug, because the plug would also explode. Now I know there are non resistor plugs, so I'll try it again.

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg

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There is constant complaining that my circuits are not like Gray's - and constant complaining that my circuits are like Jerry's (according to him) - and yet if my circuit is so much like Electrotek's, why point out all the differences between mine and his - and why am I able to show results but Jerry isn't? hmmmmmm Yet, like in the message I quoted above, Jerry says how the water sparkplug circuit is so much like Gray's. These are signs of very serious cognitive dissonance and represents some very serious confusion. Either that or there is simply a personally orchestrated effort to simply spread disinformation.

The below quote shows the comparison yet in newer messages, mine is doing something different. lol

http://www.energeticforum.com/39438-post145.html

Here's my circuit and equipment:

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg

Aaron did something like this over on the Water Sparkplug list (message #1383). Like his test, mine is almost silent, with a puffed up spark. My cap is running at 7.5kV, 16uF.

---------------------------------------------------------

During last December you accounced a 3 point circuit? Yes, you did and you said:

http://www.energeticforum.com/39691-post156.html

I discovered a circuit around five years ago which helps to understand the patent. It makes an interesting effect, similar to the Water Sparkplug - without the light or sound.

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg

In my circuit, the D shaped component is a defribrillator inductor. This is equivalent to a motor coil, except I can't get any magnetic repusion from it, due to the drawn out spark effect,

I'm sure Ed Gray knew exactly what his circuit was doing. So why did he have to hire someone to write the patent?

So at that time, yours made no light or sound - yet mine did way before then. I was getting magnetic repulsion and/or attraction from the beginning. Basically, I was getting all of these results with my circuits. You were not getting them with yours and you think my circuit is plagarizing yours.

Also, I'm sure you knew what you were doing with your circuit that you had patented but you already said you had to even have someone else draw the diagram for you.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Here is where you're saying that my experiment with my circuit that produces a usable effect is the most important experiment and in the same message you say how your cap discharges too slowly to give a usable effect. Too slowly? Meaning your cap is seeing the full impedance of the coil UNLIKE mine where the cap discharges very quick? Sounds like your circuit by your own repeated past admissions is not only unlike mine, it can't do the same thing as mine.

http://www.energeticforum.com/40471-post216.html

The most important experiment at this time might be the coil popping replication. At least a couple of people, including Aaron, have done this with a magnet. I wonder how it would compare to two coils?

With my circuit, the cap discharges too slowly through the coil to produce a usable effect.

--------------------------------------------------------------

My diagram that you claim I plagarized from you has the booster cap in there and below you give me credit for coming up with that. Thank you because I did. Actually, I independently came up with that and found that it was already in the old ignition patents. Great minds think alike?

http://www.energeticforum.com/40532-post232.html

Aaron has developed a booster circuit using a parallel cap (around .65 uf) from a MW Oven, charged to 2kV with that transformer. I'm anxious to see if the booster cap will work with a CSET.

---------------------------------------------------------------

One example of another fact about my circuit. Why no discussion about your own circuit in this manner? Because common sense says they aren't the same.

http://www.energeticforum.com/40565-post243.html

But are the caps really in parallel if they're charged with different voltage sources and isolated with a diode or a spark gap? With Aaron's circuit, the caps are only discharged in parallel.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember when you were acting like you weren't "some EE that can draw a schematic" and that you were just using a "generic" capacitor symbol? Well, you really can't "play dumb" because you've been involved with this electrical engineering stuff MUCH longer than your profession as an electrician. So, please don't underplay your experience in situations where it is convenient for you to act like you don't have that much experience.

http://www.energeticforum.com/40590-post253.html

My background is simple enough, I've been a professional electrician for a long time. But electricity has been my hobby much longer than that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Aahh, there is that mention of the WATER SPARKPLUG circuit again - it is a pretty useful circuit isn't it since it produces so many dang usable effects? You already admitted yours doesn't do the same in some of the above quotes coming straight from you.

http://www.energeticforum.com/42546-post384.html

Still, I think the simplest approach of all is to use Keely's frequencies modulated onto a Water Sparkplug circuit. It's a matter of historical record that Keely exploded a drop of water - launching a cannon ball - by playing three notes on his violin. "C" "A" "F", with just the right cadence and increasing volume.

If my circuit is like yours and did the same thing, then you would be discussing how YOUR circuit would be the simplest approach. lol

--------------------------------------------------------------------

On 1/29/2009, it appears this may be the first time I posted MY diagram that you claim is plagarizing yours.

http://www.energeticforum.com/43365-post422.html

On the SAME DAY AFTER I POSTED IT - you have several comments and questions to me and the context of everything reveals that in your mind, my circuits are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM YOURS - even my diagrams that I posted. You had no issue with it because there is obviously no similarity.

http://www.energeticforum.com/43459-post436.html

Remember when you acted confused about whether or not I can use a diode or not with a gap, etc... basically the repeated subversive posts from you... Below is proof that you KNEW FULL WELL that I had discussed this exact thing.

http://www.energeticforum.com/43470-post437.html

I read on the Water Sparkplug thread where you said that that circuit would also work without a diode, just a spark gap by the cap. Have you tried this with the Gray's Tube?

-------------------------------------------------------------

Here is where I already give the key to the effect, which has evidently evaded you completely:

http://www.energeticforum.com/43830-post505.html

I mention it again here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/43925-post528.html

--------------------------------------------------------------

cont...

[Electrotek]

Prior Disclosure?

Here is MY 3 point circuit using Gray's 3 spark gap points instead of the tube. Three points in the rod are HV rod, LV rod and Grid. Those are 3 points that makes up the Gray tube. Each of the points are tied to common ground. HV point is tied to common ground, LV point is tied to common ground and Grid is tied to common ground.

Using simple spark gap points does NOT change the circuit. It is simply the inside of the tube but without the tube enclosure. This does NOT change the function of the circuit.

The plastic tube:

• muffles sound
• may act as a dielectric insulation to contain the pressure of the blast channeling it to whereever ground is available
• whatever else...

John Bedini, one of the most credible witnesses to all of this said the tube may be a red herring. He also said the motor runs w/out the tube, just a little stronger with.

Anyway, this video shows MY three point circuit as an exact overlay on the Gray tube.

YouTube - Murakami-Gray 3 Point Plasma outside of tube

High Voltage capacitor discharge circuit?

Does anyone think that a July, 2009 video, showing a LV capacitor powered circuit, comprises prior disclosure to my December announcement of my discovery that a 3 point discharge circuit - powered by a HV cap - produces a plasma spark effect? Are we doing science here or is this just a popularity contest?

[Aaron]

ignition coil

Antena,

This particular ignition coil is Peter's and we used the basic setup for an ignition setup on a lawnmower. I really don't know the voltage rating. I am using CDI (capacitive discharge) on the primary so the voltage will be higher coming out anyway.

With this setup, I can make the ignition coil jump 1 inch, which is about 25 mm so 25 X 3300 volts per mm = 82500 volts capability and maybe more, I haven't made a gap bigger than that.

The smaller gap allows for quicker switching and the rotor gets much faster.

What do you mean by definite voltage, do you mean that if the gap is too big, the voltage pressure will cross shoot to other wires in the circuit since it tries to get to ground somehow?

[pranav2010]

about the wire size

Dear Mr. pranav2010,

The GD photos from 1974 show that the Major and Minor electromagnets of the EMA4-E2 motor are wound with about #24 AWG copper magnet wire. We can't determine the number of turns because we have no idea as to what the cross section of the core is. So, your guess is as good as any.

The recovered EMA4 and EMA5 motors that now belong to Al Francouer of Canada were wound with #14 AWG copper magnet wire. This was a retrofit job done in 1980 by a Mr. Nelson Schlaft. These were not the original windings. According to Mr. Schlaft the original wire was much smaller and it was potted in a light brown "gunky" material. Mr. Schlaft didn't repot the windings in anything. This work was contracted out to a machine shop in Canyon County, CA (NE of LA)

I suspect that #30 AWG is a little small, but go with what feels best. You can always change as you get some experimental data.

I can't help you with methods to up load a book. That is outside of my skill set.

Spokane1

thank you once again

now i decide #24 wire i will use in my motor

thank you

[antena]

Ignition coil

Hallo
Aaron thank U for the answer. Thats true circuit with diodes is simlest then find suitable level of the voltage, capacitance and frequency.
Can I have question about your ignition coil. How much voltage Your coil can make ? Ignition coils from my neighbour can produce 30-90kV.
I dont know what max voltage can produce your coil, from Your video Murakami-Gray 3 Point Plasma outside of tube I see space between rods about 5mm it is about 15kV. So U have coil which max voltage is 15kV ?
In ignition coils are transformer which teoretically can produce infinite voltage.
So with such kind ignition coil U need to have some kind of safety circuit which provide definite voltage otherwise your diode will be destroyed.
Can u tell me how way U guarantee definite voltage not to destroy your diodes ?
Thank You a lot
Antena

[lamare]

Hi all,

I have been tough practically this whole thread recently:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air.html

It handles about Dr. Stifflers "SEC", with some very interesting videos at:
YouTube - MRH2O2's Channel


What's also very interesting is his "Spatial Gate", which closely resembles the Gray tube:

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/2602d1239450711-high-voltage-thin-air-sgate.pdf

It makes an interesting comparison with Aarons circuit posted a.o. here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3235-gray-tube-replication-53.html

Based on this comparison, one can deduce how the Gray tube is probably supposed to work. There are two distinct phases:

1) charging C2 using radiant energy
2) discharging C2 doing work

During phase 1, S1 is open. What we then have, is very similar to what Dr. Stiffler does. You have an oscillator that is capacitively coupled to a coil trough the capacitance between the HV rod and the grid, so we can "wirelessly" get the open coil into resonance, which will result in a high radiant voltage becoming present all over the coil. Since there is a high frequency, there will be no resulting magnetic force from the coil, but you do get a high voltage to charge your C2 with.
However, you would need a diode (or a AV plug) somewhere between the coil and C2 in order to rectify the HV and be able to charge C2.

During phase 2, C2 is unidirectionally discharged trough the coil, during which phase you do get a resultant magnetic field, so the coil can do work. This discharge appears to be quite special, since C2 discharges from the grid to the rod(s), apparantly triggered by a spark jumping from the HV rod to the LV rod. This creates a plasma, which appears to be similar to igniting a FL tube. So, the spark-plasma makes it possible for C2 to discharge trough the tube from grid to rod(s) by means of a gas discharge as used in any FL tube.

If this is how the Gray tube is supposed to work, it is very imporant that the HV frequency fed to the circuit exactly matches the resonance frequency of the load coil.