Gray Tube Replication

[martin]

Thanks Martin for sharing this important point

Does the Amperage on the power supply change when you connect the FFF, when the light become stronger ?
Is this FFF independent from the HV source?
Keep on the great work !
MDG

I know the current drops when I hit the correct freqency, I will have to check the current with and without the fff to see if it's lower.

The fff is directly connected to the HV supply. In most people's Gray circuit, they connct the HV coil to a rectifier diode, then to a capacitor, and then to the HV rod in the Tube. This fff coil is connected between the HV diode and the Capacitor.

Freeukpower, thanks for the great info. Do you or anyone you know have an actual schematic of any of Al's work? I see the blueprints and drawings on the some of the pages you describe, but no actual wiring diagram.

Has anyone seen anybody else got this much continuous output on the grids without arcing? Just curious.

Also, this goes along with one of the articles I read about Gray's power supply. They said that all the accessories he had attached to the output was wired in series. When I hook two lights up to this in parallel, they "fight" between each other. In other words, they both will not light at the same time. When they're hooked in series, they both light.

[martin]

nat1971a

How did you have your coax fff hooked up? It kinda sounds like in your setup, this is doing the same job as the grid.

[Electrotek]

freeukpower: Like everyone, I really appreciate you posting the results of your experiments. Using the ball bearing drop is an innovative approach to the challenge of single impulse triggering. I'll try this in series with a high speed rotary gap. Please continue posting.

And also, thanks for the heads up on alf. I see little point in posting to a 'temporary' forum. Recently, he *immediately* deleted his flyingsaucermachines group when I mentioned that I had a video of my levitation machine posted there. What does he really want?

Aaron: You say your "effect" will work with either a diode or an additional external spark gap. (message 728, page 25). I'm wondering how the spark gap "slams shut"? Perhaps the more rapid capacitor discharge is related to the increased volume of the discharge path?

[nat1971a]

@martin

i should elaborate on what i mean by my experiments.....these were wireless radiant energy transmission experiments with CFL's. WHich is covered in the imhotep threads on this site...in those experiments the coaxial cable was proven to not allow the radiant energy to dissipate which helped brighten the lights. Tesla's patent 514167 should be refered too also in this regard

unfortunately i havent had any time to carry on any further experiments yet

[Aaron]

without diodes

Aaron: You say your "effect" will work with either a diode or an additional external spark gap. (message 728, page 25). I'm wondering how the spark gap "slams shut"? Perhaps the more rapid capacitor discharge is related to the increased volume of the discharge path?

The hv will jump spark gap and compress against the coil/cap or just cap if no coil. I'll see if I can find the patents that show this as well. In most of this, I have found that a diode can replace most of the gap or a gap can replace the diodes.

Tesla didn't have diodes...depending on what he was doing, he used gaps as one way valves.

[Aaron]

plasma ignition patents

I would recommend that anyone interested in this read all of the content thoroughly. Including how the ignition coils are modified, etc... Basically, secondary has fewer windings than normal. That would bring down the output voltage and allow for higher frequency...no doubt that was what Gray did.

Also, as far as the concept of the ignition coil being able to spark when there is a cap attached to the output...the whole point of peaking capacitors is that on a single pulse, the cap is charged and the spark jumps the gap. With larger caps, they simply need to be topped off and an ignition coil spark can jump the gap since the cap can't soak up and more and I believe the Gray circuit had to have the caps fully charged to keep up and they only needed to be topped off instead of being fully discharged.

https://www.esmhome.org/library/water-sparkplug/plasmaignitionpatents.zip

Electrotek,

I couldn't find the spark gap ones in here but there are some early water sparkplug circuit tests where the effect was had without the diodes. The guy in India I believe with the motorcycle that ran for a bit on water...his setup didn't have the diode but works the same.

When I first had the cap 38 discharge through the coil and give the event, there was no diode involved but the collision event forcing it to ground still caused the cap to have the super fast discharge. That is one example that is already on youtube.

I think what might make it possible to have the "slamming shut" effect without a diode is that if for example, cap 38 is charged up to a high enough tension, a discharge into it could hit a wall. There needs to be potential difference for something to jump into it but if cap 38 is at 3999 and 4000 v cap discharge jumps into it, cap 38 will not be able to take it all and the rest will hit an abrupt wall.

[What The Flux]

I know the current drops when I hit the correct freqency, I will have to check the current with and without the fff to see if it's lower.

The fff is directly connected to the HV supply. In most people's Gray circuit, they connct the HV coil to a rectifier diode, then to a capacitor, and then to the HV rod in the Tube. This fff coil is connected between the HV diode and the Capacitor.

Freeukpower, thanks for the great info. Do you or anyone you know have an actual schematic of any of Al's work? I see the blueprints and drawings on the some of the pages you describe, but no actual wiring diagram.

Has anyone seen anybody else got this much continuous output on the grids without arcing? Just curious.

Also, this goes along with one of the articles I read about Gray's power supply. They said that all the accessories he had attached to the output was wired in series. When I hook two lights up to this in parallel, they "fight" between each other. In other words, they both will not light at the same time. When they're hooked in series, they both light.

On the circuit you just posted (002), what do you have driving the power transistor, and how are you adjusting the frequency? I thought you were just driving it with a laser power supply. Doesn't that have a fixed frequency?

Good job on the flux field idea.

[Electrotek]

I would recommend that anyone interested in this read all of the content thoroughly. Including how the ignition coils are modified, etc... Basically, secondary has fewer windings than normal. That would bring down the output voltage and allow for higher frequency...no doubt that was what Gray did.

Also, as far as the concept of the ignition coil being able to spark when there is a cap attached to the output...the whole point of peaking capacitors is that on a single pulse, the cap is charged and the spark jumps the gap. With larger caps, they simply need to be topped off and an ignition coil spark can jump the gap since the cap can't soak up and more and I believe the Gray circuit had to have the caps fully charged to keep up and they only needed to be topped off instead of being fully discharged.

https://www.esmhome.org/library/water-sparkplug/plasmaignitionpatents.zip

Electrotek,

I couldn't find the spark gap ones in here but there are some early water sparkplug circuit tests where the effect was had without the diodes. The guy in India I believe with the motorcycle that ran for a bit on water...his setup didn't have the diode but works the same.

When I first had the cap 38 discharge through the coil and give the event, there was no diode involved but the collision event forcing it to ground still caused the cap to have the super fast discharge. That is one example that is already on youtube.

I think what might make it possible to have the "slamming shut" effect without a diode is that if for example, cap 38 is charged up to a high enough tension, a discharge into it could hit a wall. There needs to be potential difference for something to jump into it but if cap 38 is at 3999 and 4000 v cap discharge jumps into it, cap 38 will not be able to take it all and the rest will hit an abrupt wall.

I'm wondering if the collision between the two positive caps occurs inside the motor? In the electrical industry, we have motors which are connected to the positive through two breakers, or "legs". These legs are 120 out of phase, so the resulting voltage goes from 120 to 208. The result is higher HP from a motor with a single phase-winding. With two caps in collision, the potentials are at 180 degrees, so the voltage would double. The trick would be in the circuit, so that both caps can discharge against each other. Or, both caps would need a common ground.

I've got a pendulum now, with two MOT coils, so I can try some things. Including my expanded current path in my CSET.

[Electrotek]

MOT Pendulum

Here's a picture of my new setup. The coil on the left weighs 4 pounds. The transformer and cap are 7.5 kV, with the cap at 16.5 uF.

[martin]

On the circuit you just posted (002), what do you have driving the power transistor, and how are you adjusting the frequency? I thought you were just driving it with a laser power supply. Doesn't that have a fixed frequency?

Good job on the flux field idea.

Yes, I was until it had a little mishap . If you're going to experiment with different ground potentials, be very careful! I had a big green plasma like arc and somehow got into my power supply and burned the wires up in my soldering iron.

Anyway, Gray used ignition coils as well from what Im reading, except they were modified. In his schematic the coil is drawn with a center tapped primary for switching purposes. So I dug around and found an old coil. If I had a spare, Id take it apart and center tap the primary.

I looked at my meters on the astron unit, and it says [email protected] amps roughly. The transistor switch Im using is a tip120 darlington from Radio Shack. The source that's driving the transistor is just a 50/50 square wave generator. I can vary the freq from 0 to 100kHz.

[nat1971a]

Parts Express:*Svetlana SV811-10 Quartet Platinum Matched


found the vacuum triode that gary magratten listed on his list of parts...it isnt cheap.....

[nat1971a]

In researching these vacuum triodes as i know nothing about them...i came across a comment by john bedini advising that the grid was most likely connected to the ground. This being negative on the grid controls the electrons from flowing or not...which i find correlates nicely with the fractioning process that peter lindemann refers to in his book...i also noticed that on some of the vacuum tubes the electrodes are sometimes silver plated....which i thought was funny as that compares to the spark gap in the CSET

[What The Flux]

Yes, I was until it had a little mishap . If you're going to experiment with different ground potentials, be very careful! I had a big green plasma like arc and somehow got into my power supply and burned the wires up in my soldering iron.

Anyway, Gray used ignition coils as well from what Im reading, except they were modified. In his schematic the coil is drawn with a center tapped primary for switching purposes. So I dug around and found an old coil. If I had a spare, Id take it apart and center tap the primary.

I looked at my meters on the astron unit, and it says [email protected] amps roughly. The transistor switch Im using is a tip120 darlington from Radio Shack. The source that's driving the transistor is just a 50/50 square wave generator. I can vary the freq from 0 to 100kHz.

Thanks. I thought you must have changed something. That's similar to what I'm doing. I'm using 556 into a TIP120 into a 2N3055. But I think we have to get away from the square wave and work towards a short duty cycle pulse. I'm going to run my 556 into a one-shot and see how narrow I can get the pulse and still get a spark. My Radio Shack no longer stocks triacs and mosfets, so I need to look elsewhere.

I've tried relays, and they work well but only at low frequencies. I think the tuning of this circuit is very important, and given the low capacitance of the Gray tube, we obviously need relatively high frequency. Sounds like you are in the ball park.

Editorial: Do you remember when Radio Shack actually catered to people who knew electronics? For the last 10 years, every time I go in, it's a crowd of geriatrics tying up the staff, trying to figure out why their answering machine doesn't work! They no longer carry transformers, and if you ask a clueless staff person for them, they try to show you a power adapter for an answering machine. When you ask them when their parts are going to be restocked, they say "Who knows"! That's a great way to gain customer loyalty. It's very sad. All the people there know about any more is cell phones and satellite boxes. But I digress...

So besides Digi-Key, who I've used for many years when I'm desperate, and eBay of course, where does everyone look for parts?

[martin]

@ What The Flux

Yea, RS is getting slim on parts around here also. The IRF510 seems to be good for higher frequencies, but they are delicate! If memory serves, IRF540 may be a better choice. Im going to pursue the shorter pulse as well, but Im going to start off with a custom rotary gap and series resistor to try breaking the arc in the cset.

@ Everyone

I checked into the same type of thyratron about a year ago. The one that Gary used was actually around $200-$300 if I remember right. I actually talked to him once about the cset and he mentioned something about paying close attention to the insulators used in the cset. He thought there was some kind of transfer between tubes through the insulator. He mentioned trying to find Granite to use. He told me this when I said I was having trouble getting any usable power on the grids. Who knows. He may have been blowing me off since he had never talked to me before. He said he couldnt say much more because he was under some agreement with someone about the technology and was tongue tied for roughly a year. Anyway, I abandoned the Thyratron idea when I found out that they fire like an SCR. You can control when they fire but turning them off abruptly is a whole different problem (assuming the short pulse duration is what gives the effect). To me, this would have to be controlled with a smaller capacitance to get a short pulse, but still would not give the "abrupt" interruption.

I just had an idea, how about something like this circuit. Throw switch #1 to initiate pulse, then "x" amount of time later throw switch #2 with a slight higher voltage to slam and abruptly shut off diode. Theoretically you can control both when and how long the pulse occurs.

[nat1971a]

i have looked quite closely at the SCR's and they dont switch off very quick. In fact I have already tried an SCR in the circuit a month or so back

This is also backed up by the following statement by peter lindemann



http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nt-energy.html




Shad,

Dollard used large vacuum triodes for his Magnifying Transmitter, and glass enclosed hydrogen spark arresters for the other BSRF demonstrations.

But let's start at the beginning. What was Tesla trying to do? He was trying to produce a simple DC square-wave pulse train. But he didn't have ANY electronic control devices. No 555 timer chips. No transistors. No vacuum tubes. He only had coils, capacitors, mechanical contacters, and spark gaps.

So, what does Tesla's longitudinal electrostatic wave-front look like? It looks like a DC square-wave pulse train where the pulse repetition rate is one million impulses per second, the duty-cycle is 10% On and 90% OFF, and the voltage in each impulse is 50,000 volts DC or more. This is what Tesla wants the circuit to do. This is what he wants to create by the discharge of his capacitor stage in the circuit.

So, if the spark gap is his "circuit controller" then he only wants a "single crack" each time the capacitor discharges. Just a single, unidirectional impulse of electrostatic charge to proceed forward before the circuit shuts off again. Then, the capacitor can charge up again for the 900 nanoseconds the spark gap is quiet and then discharge all of the stored energy again in 100 nanoseconds. Then repeat indefinitely.

It creates a "staccato of electrostatic bursts." Don't make this mysterious, because it is not. It is no more difficult to understand than the output of a 555 timer chip. Its just that we are talking about very high voltage DC, and very high pulse repetition rates. What is difficult is finding the circuit components that allow you to create these conditions without self-destructing!

In my Tesla's Radiant Energy DVD I go through all of Tesla's patents and discuss the various methods he used. They included spark gaps quenched by magnets, spark gaps quenched by blasts of hot air, spark gaps in insulating oil, spark gaps across rotating contacters. All of these methods work to one degree or another.

In the 1920's, as vacuum tubes started becoming available, John Bedini and I are convinced that Tesla went to Lee DeForest and had him build the first experimental Thyratrons. This is a family of circuit controlling devices specifically designed to conduct a unidirectional impulse, only when triggered, and then automatically shut off when the voltage drops to ZERO. This is most easily seen today in the function of the Thyrister, the simplest of which is the SCR. The problem with SCRs today is that they are not designed to shut OFF fast enough for the purposes of these circuits.

I hope this helps.

Peter