Gray Tube Replication

[Aaron]

tube purpose speculation

So the Gray tube and Gray motor may run OU because of the radiant recharging effect. At the high voltages we should be able to extract more energy this way than low voltages.

I know ED GRAY had capacitors. I wonder if you think that the TUBE acts as a rechargeable capacitor as well as the big Capacitors?

One gain mechanism I believe is definitely the electret effect that happens to the caps.

Another gain mechanism that appears as more of a power increase, but seems to lead to a real energy gain is the ability for these low voltage high current discharges to discharge across a gap that is pre-ionized with high voltage. The discharge of the LV source appears to be discharging with no resistance to hold it back so the time impulse is shortened way beyond what is normally possible.

Just reducing the time looks to be more of a power increase where we take the same joules of potential and discharge them into a shorter period of time. However, with these very sharp gradient events, it seems that this type of polarization of the aether (break in the symmetry of vacuum energy potential) does have overunity effects where more of this environmental source potential pours into the system than normal.

So far with the experiments I did with the tube, I couldn't tell a difference between having the tube or having the rods/grid point out in the open. However, I'm on a much smaller scale than Gray. If we step that up, I think an insulated tube could possible contain the ionized gases much better and could be actually useful - won't know until I test at a much larger scale.

I think the tube could serve that function possibly more than being a capacitor itself.

Once the HV moves away from the LV rod and moves towards the grids, it ionizes whatever gas is there and makes it very positively charged like ionized nitrogen mostly - if we assume it only had ambient air gases in it. If the air can be ionized enough, a battery will conduct straight across that gap with an ultra fast discharge at negative resistance and I think that is where the magic is in powering the inductor - based just on the Gray Tube patents, Bedini's diagrams and the analogy of what we know about the plasma impulse ignition tests.

[BroMikey]

ReCap

Great run down of operation Aaron

You are one of the few who can put it all into a proper portrait. Keep repeating and some of us may caught on. So the Gray tube and Gray motor may run OU because of the radiant recharging effect. At the high voltages we should be able to extract more energy this way than low voltages.

I know ED GRAY had capacitors. I wonder if you think that the TUBE acts as a rechargeable capacitor as well as the big Capacitors?

Either way it is still a wild guess as no one has ever made it work like ED did.

Mike PS reCaps are the best from someone who is in the lead.

[Aaron]

Gray Tube Replication

In this video, I'm simply running it as an analogy to the Gray Tube patent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxsoze9CZ9E

The Gray Tube has been discussed as a possible red herring, etc... to me all that is irrelevant. We see the same principle in the early UK patents and it shows up over and over.

We have a HV that jump a gap to a LV positive source and the HV and LV have a common ground. On the LV side, which is the switch, the diode/triode/etc... shuts off really quick.

That LV source just got popped for a moment with the HV discharge and splitting the positives means we have a difference between the HV source and the LV source, which then has nowhere to go but over the gap towards the grids, through the inductor and back to common ground. That is the 2nd next lowest resistance path to ground - the first was over the gap to the LV source.

To me, it is as simple as being that the space between the rods and grids gets ionized from the HV discharge blast over it that it becomes conductive enough for the battery to discharge over the gap for an ultra short period of time - so we have the HV blending with the High Current from the battery coming in the opposite direction over the wires, through the inductor and over the gap back towards the battery.

It's the same principle as the plasma ignition except on a large scale.

That would be consistent with not only the Gray Tube patent (for whatever that is worth), but we do have virtually the same diagrams from eye witnesses (John Bedini & Ron Cole) who saw it run.

At least that is the path I'm taking with it.

[Aaron]

radiant spikes

Mark's recent presentation detailed the description of what the power supply's waveforms looked like. To me, it is a radiant spike generator of about 5kv at a pretty good frequency. Mark might have a different interpretation - this is just mine.

With that being used to charge a cap to 5000v for example, based on our own experiments, we know for a fact that charging caps with HV repeatedly give them a type of electret effect where it conditions them to self-charge in a pretty serious way - quite a bit more than a cap's normal ability to charge itself just a bit from the bottom, but I'm talking about quite a bit more than that.

For example, about 10 years ago when John Bedini gave me a Sony Capstan reel-to-reel motor to make a Bedini SSG out of, I took the output from the spikes to charge a .1uf cap to about 90 volts. I dumped that cap to another battery using an SCR, which was triggered by a neon bulb so when the cap hit 90 volts, it would light the neon and trigger the gate on the scr to dump it to another battery.

This is too low of capacitance and too high of voltage to do much good to the battery, but the point is, being charged in that manner with the spikes at whatever frequency (very low compared to the Gray technology), is that I could take that cap, manually short it out all the way to zero and it would spring back up to almost 90 volts every single time without it being hooked to anything.

We know this is one of the gain mechanisms with the Bedini SG and the cap discharge circuits - those caps are getting conditioned with the spikes to have a beefier self-charging ability.

With a 60v 33,000uf cap, I charged it with an Imhotep type relay oscillator on an ignition coil and that ignition coil output charged the cap. That cap was removed and was used in a Bedini style solid state oscillator with an isolated recovery winding charging another cap, which was then fed back to the front conditioned cap without the circuit seeing the feedback (pseudo-looping). This oscillator will simply run indefinitely and will only give enough power to light a weak LED, but it proves the point. I showed a demo of this before running itself but without powering the LED but it proved to me that the cap can make up for the 5% or so loss in the recovery to keep itself leveled off and running non-stop.

This is inevitably happening in the 4000v 2uf (or whatever size cap) is charged from the power supply with the high frequency 5000v spikes where it will recharge itself a certain percentage after each discharge.

Looking at it from this perspective, it isn't the transformer giving anything unusual, it's the self-charging electret effect in the cap that happens from being conditioned by the high voltage spikes that are charging it.

Again, just my perspective, but is consistent with what we do know about cap charging with "radiant" spikes.

What you have to ask yourself is, "How do I get radiant spikes at those voltages and frequencies from a common transformer?"

[BroMikey]

Coils Pop

Mike,
Thankyou for the 'popping coil' videos and whilst there happened to see this one - the Ed Gray lost video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JQHUZITimUI

Very poor quality both picture and sound but gives an insight into Ed's popping coil and look at just how well his Lab is decked out.
Shows a lot of interest from some financial backers.
Whatever happened to Marvin Cole, is he still available?


Smokey

Hi Smokey

Aaron has pointed us to that link with the REAL STORY so we have much to catch up on. The last I heard Mark was getting word of a new idea as to why THE GRAY machined worked.

At first I thought the key to the extra OU was the spark Gap but I now know that the tube is for transferring energy or shall I say translating a high voltage "CRACK"!!! back into a lower voltage for charging a battery.

Now it is thought that a special circuit with properly designed pulses might have played a key roll. The special transformers made with a plastic no one uses is another variable most have never afforded and therefore experimented with.

Mike

[David G Dawson]

Integrated Capacitor & Inductor

Hello Mark,

P.S. I have received the copper foil to build my second generation Hackenberger Transformer with an integral capacitor as part of the primary.

Rereading some of the EV Gray dialogue and saw this PS from you - how did it go?
This is close to what I keep talking about in an integrated inductor capacitor and was interested in your organisation - how do they both fit together?
Do believe that this is what a Tesla Magnifying Transmitter (TMT) is also all about.

Smokey

[Aaron]

The Real History of the Ed Gray Motor Part 2

Mark McKay's presentation from this year's conference is now available!

This year's talk is Part 2 to The Real History of the Ed Gray Motor.

It includes transcripts from some audio cassette tapes that were recently found by an old associate of Ed Gray. They are interviews with Ed Gray's chief engineer Richard Hackenberger. Details are shared about the power supply that Gray used in his motors and camping lanterns.

If you don't have part 1, you can get both at a discount. Peter and I are also putting together some other bonuses that will be included in this package at a later time and will be available to anyone that purchased Part 2 or the combo without charge.

Go here now: The Real History of the Ed Gray Motor by Mark McKay, E.E.

[David G Dawson]

Ed Gray Lost Video

Mike,
Thankyou for the 'popping coil' videos and whilst there happened to see this one - the Ed Gray lost video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JQHUZITimUI

Very poor quality both picture and sound but gives an insight into Ed's popping coil and look at just how well his Lab is decked out.
Shows a lot of interest from some financial backers.
Whatever happened to Marvin Cole, is he still available?

Mark,
Thankyou for the further knowledge about Ed's work but see a commonality here with the work of others.
Magnets have four poles and not just two and can this be a part of something new that we have yet to discover or even experiment with?

Tesla's 1892 Lecture for review:

Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency - A Lecture Delivered Before The Institution Of Electrical Engineers - London - 1

Interesting that you mentioned that Lecture as there neatly displayed is a picture of his 'Equa-Drive' and looks like a dual 'tank circuit' as used in RF transmitter finals - a dual flip-flop.
Is there a slight possibility that this circuit could go overunity and I don't believe anyone has tried this as yet?
Built his London Coil but not oil immersed and found some unusual characteristics in its function but was not understood at that time.
Still have it here and one of those I may get back to shortly.

Smokey

[BroMikey]

Coil Popping

Dear Smokey,

I'm glad to get your response. I was wondering if all the interest in this subject has died in favor of the SERPS device roll out, with its claimed COP of 50.

The reason for the complex Motor was that was how the OU was harvested. It was not in an electrical output but in the form of torque.

One side line for this technology was the development of an advanced Mass Driver. Gray and company did spend some time on building a "Military Mortar" that would eliminate the need for the explosive propellant. This project variation ended when it was realized that working with the military as a customer had its risks concerning the eventual ownership of the IP.

They actually had two technologies. One, the "Static Generator" was a solid state unit that did attempt to have an electrical output. It was claimed to have a COP of 4.0 (I have my doubts if it actually achieved that performance level)

The "motor", on the other hand, was third party verified to have a COP of 282.0. This was achieved by driving a 10 HP generator and then measuring the electrical output as compared to the electrical input from the battery.

Most OU researchers are looking for an electrical output from their apparatus. They may be looking in the wrong arena. This adventure shows that the "Mother Load" (at least in this technology) comes from the anomalous repulsion forces generated when this novel form of electricity is applied to opposing electromagnets.

It is odd that the apparent generator and the loading system in this design are both composed of opposing electromagnets.

Thanks for the additional technical leads I shall look into them during lunch.

Spokane1

Thank You Mark

I will be looking forward to that. Here is Aaron, Thanks Aaron

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azfxP9lBAao

Her is another Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvJrwjAdv20

Another Great Tube and coil popping experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z-oZv08Kp0

Mike

[Spokane1]

Purpose of the Gray Complex Rotary Transducer (i.e. Motor)

Also strange that Ed went into the rotary version of the technology and why would he not have gone for a stationary device?
Why would he have made it more complex than necessary by going rotary?

Smokey

Dear Smokey,

I'm glad to get your response. I was wondering if all the interest in this subject has died in favor of the SERPS device roll out, with its claimed COP of 50.

The reason for the complex Motor was that was how the OU was harvested. It was not in an electrical output but in the form of torque.

One side line for this technology was the development of an advanced Mass Driver. Gray and company did spend some time on building a "Military Mortar" that would eliminate the need for the explosive propellant. This project variation ended when it was realized that working with the military as a customer had its risks concerning the eventual ownership of the IP.

They actually had two technologies. One, the "Static Generator" was a solid state unit that did attempt to have an electrical output. It was claimed to have a COP of 4.0 (I have my doubts if it actually achieved that performance level)

The "motor", on the other hand, was third party verified to have a COP of 282.0. This was achieved by driving a 10 HP generator and then measuring the electrical output as compared to the electrical input from the battery.

Most OU researchers are looking for an electrical output from their apparatus. They may be looking in the wrong arena. This adventure shows that the "Mother Load" (at least in this technology) comes from the anomalous repulsion forces generated when this novel form of electricity is applied to opposing electromagnets.

It is odd that the apparent generator and the loading system in this design are both composed of opposing electromagnets.

Thanks for the additional technical leads I shall look into them during lunch.

Spokane1

[David G Dawson]

Popping Coil/Mark/Boyce

Hello Mark,
Excellent news and good work!
It appears once again to be of a 'radiant energy' nature that needs to be converted back from LMD to TEM before it can be used and this is where the battery probably comes into play.
See bottom of page for Germanium transistors.

Been reading about lightning strikes from both Steven Mark and now Bob Boyce with their TPU setups.
A similar arrangement of 3 or 6 coils with a 'collector' coil at right angles, all wound in space by Steven and on a iron powder core Toroid by Bob.
Use of Silver coated Copper wire as against plain Copper and Aluminium in the mix as an 'electron' giver.

Your talk of 'the popping coil' and I am aware that I have an ideal setup here which I used some time back where large 3" Ferrite ring magnets could be fitted in a 12" frame in either attracting or opposing mode and is screw adjustable.
Strange but have completely forgotten exactly what I was exploring at the time - years ago.
It just occurred to me that it may have been of help in your 'popping' experiments as all it needed was a non magnetic core rod.
Also strange that Ed went into the rotary version of the technology and why would he not have gone for a stationary device?
Why would he have made it more complex than necessary by going rotary?

Probably mentioned all of this previously.
Setting up on the bench here with many TV Neck Ferrites with their windings still intact and in a TPU type arrangement.
Working also on two 50s era TV Waveform & Alignment Generators - Philips GM2891 and Taylor 94B as drivers for the coils as they are ideal for this organisation where we have both horizontal and vertical deflection coils.
This is all to do with Steven Mark and the imploding RCA colour TV in Chicago back in 1967 where a young Negro boy was killed from nails being pulled out of the wall and found later to be in a corkscrew form.
Something here in the Neck area has manifested and is also reported by others in certain TVs where they experienced a severe many foot arc and after recovering from the shock of the event, find the TV glass neck sitting on the floor of the cabinet.

My understanding from Bob Boyce is that he is going to distance himself from his discoveries as I also believe Steven Mark has also done the same with the fear that the wrong people are going to be messing with the technology with disasterous results on many fronts.
There is just too much at stake here that we learn to control what we produce.

Steven Mark:

http://www.thewaterengine.com/pdf/stevenmarktpu.pdf

Bob Boyce:

http://feynmanslab.com/images/post1/Bob_Boyce_TPU.pdf

Bob on the use of Germanium transistors to convert LMD to TEM, pulse and the copper/silver wire all make sense from my own empirical observations.
My own probe head using two 1N34 Germanium Diodes and using Crystal Set type high impedance headphones - contact of probe head for TEM and space or no contact for LMD.
A most sensitive detecting device for TEM/LMD.
Steven Mark on reasons why not to use transistors initially in driving a TPU.
The astute people who have done the hard yards with all of this will understand both reasons.
Also mention of Tesla's 'Magnifying Transmitter' as being a part of the mix.
All the best in your experiments.

Smokey

[Spokane1]

Gray Technology Advancement

Gentlemen,

I believed I have figured out the structure of the transformer primary in the 1979 Hackenberger Power supply.

It is composed of two independent center tapped primaries that produce opposing magnetic fields on a common central magnetic core. The core is designed to have a mu of less than the outer core legs. This will result in a effective, yet controllable synthetic air gap that stores the magnetic energy during the Fly-back charge phase. The advantage is that this storage area is spread out over a larger area rather than being concentrated in a narrow air gap.

The transformer is designed to have considerable space between the opposing primaries and secondary's.

The trick is to charge the transformer to its maximum amperes-turns then suddenly interrupt the supply current - ideally with an open circuit. The anomalous energy is harvested via the secondary but needs to be ran through a lead-acid battery for additional conditioning before it can display its novel properties.

As soon as I receive my copper strap order I shall report on the performance of this approach.

It is of worthy note that this configuration is the same that was used in the "Popping Coil" apparatus. Also, you will find this configuration in the Tesla 1892 lecture demonstration coil setup.

Spokane1

[Spokane1]

Capacitor Return

Dear Mark

Check the connection to the EMA4 coils from power supply. I think it may be a single wire power line with capacitive return (via armature or capacitor plates). I quite long time ago stated that this setup was clearly described by Tesla in his lecture in 1892 or 1893. Described but not disclosed the operating principle and efficiency...

Dear boguslaw,

We don't have a wiring diagram for the "real" EMA4. All we have is the re-worked, misleading, and partially disclosing patent documents.

However, your proposal of a capacitor return is something I have not considered. You are correct in that Dr. Tesla did disclosed that capacitor return concept in that time period. I understand that technically it is called the "Tesla Equa-Drive". It was used by Richard Hull for his Fusor research. I have no idea why it is better than any other method, but apparently it is.

In the EMA4 photos and the patent documents it appears that the whole engine case is designed as a capacitor with a 0.250" Teflon liner (high K factor). For sure the outer case is electrically active since it is linked to the batteries with a 4-0 cable.

The laminate cores of the stator electromagnets are also electrically active. These electromagnets are housed and bounded on aluminum base plates that are about 6" wide. These could form a capacitor with the case, however the effective capacitance wouldn't be very high due to the thickness of the dielectric.

This is something to consider. One major problem with this technology was figuring out how all the connections were made.

Mark McKay

[boguslaw]

Dear Mark

Check the connection to the EMA4 coils from power supply. I think it may be a single wire power line with capacitive return (via armature or capacitor plates). I quite long time ago stated that this setup was clearly described by Tesla in his lecture in 1892 or 1893. Described but not disclosed the operating principle and efficiency...

[Spokane1]

New info on Hackenbrger Transformer

Gentlemen,

As you know Al Francouer is the present owner of the 1979 Power Supply that I suspect was the Cold Electricity converter that drove the "Blue Engine". He called me Friday and spoke about a number of important events in is life. He stated that he was not ready to disclose the specific novel construction details of this power supply yet. However by analogy he hinted how there were two sets of opposing windings that composed the secondary of this ordinary looking shell type transformer.

I hadn't considered that concept before. Right now I'm exploring a standard solenoid winding. The two internal opposing coils does make perfect sense in this technology. That means that during the Fly-back collapse there are two magnetic fields directly opposing each other. What ever mechanical forces are generated internally apparently can be restrained by the mounting hardware. These windings are bifilar and are wound counter to each other. The general layout is very similar to the Tesla 1892 demo device. It probably shares many qualities of the 1896 Tesla table top oscillator.

I certainly will not find this topology in any of my transformer reference books.

Opposing electromagnets is not new to the OU community. The Bedini, Adams, and Cole motors all share some aspects of this concept. Along with many other coil methodologies.

The successful EMA4-E1 Gray Engine had a curious sequence of operation. For 120 degrees of rotation the "Major" electromagnets were fired at Top Dead Center opposing each other, in which all 18 capacitors were discharged. Then for the remaining 270 degrees of rotation the "Minor" - "Major" firings took place with the 11-2/3 degree offsets. Now this little bit of offset allowed for some torque to be developed, but the TDC firings would have produced all radial force that would have resulted in no torque.

My proposal is that the Major firings produced the Cold Electricity that was stored and then used to drive the next cycle that actually produced the torque. This means that the EMA4 engine was also configured to be a energy converter, perhaps a 2nd stage.

If this new suggestion is valid that means that the configuration of the converter and the opposing electromagnets are very similar. This also means that the actual non-classical conversion could have taken place in the converter and/or the engine. And to think all this time I was sure that the engine was just a rotary transducer. Perhaps it could have been either depending upon the version. Even if this was the case then the "Cold Electricity" was still stored and used to provide torque in a configuration that didn't produce energy.

No wonder this technology is hard to follow - it keeps changing.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this concept?

I'm in the process of winding a new opposing secondary to see just how this functions.

Mark McKay