Electric Motor Secrets

[nali2001]

Off topic lol?

Well this might be very off topic but I just want to say Merry Christmas to you all and a happy and productive 2008!


Kind regards,
Steven

[Ted Ewert]

These motors are the coolest. Great job guys!
Peter says: "In this process, there are no "mistakes", there is only "learning". As the process moves forward, if the machine behaves in ways that are different than what you intended, it means that Nature is telling you something important about the design. It's like, if you get the wrong answer(result), its only because you asked the wrong question (design)". This is great wisdom. I've learned more by building and running motors than I ever could reading about them.
I would encourage anyone following this fascinating process, who may think this is all beyond their abilities, to start playing with small DC motors and get familiar with them. Take them apart and see how they work. Goof around and experiment with them. You'll soon find yourself understanding interesting things.
If you then continue, you'll get hooked like the rest of us poor slobs and be scrounging parts on the weekends, building 'till all hours of the night and constantly thinking how you can improve your projects. It's great fun.

Cheers,

Ted

[Schpankme]

Nothing all that spectacular but, here I have another video demonstrating some overall practical info in regard to introducing magnetism to a laminated core efficiently.

Regards,
Steven

Excellent Video; It was surprising to see the effects the magnets had placed inside the C-Core.

Thank you,

Schpankme

[nali2001]

Video

Nothing all that spectacular but, here I have another video demonstrating some overall practical info in regard to introducing magnetism to a laminated core efficiently.

http://www.krystyna.nl/Machine/CoreTesting5.wmv

Regards,
Steven

[Peter Lindemann]

Welcome, Twoody

HI
I would just like to thank Peter for sharing this idea that has got us all thinking about doing something. I am like many out there that are following this forum and working on a motor but have not shared my progress.

I am using a 1/3 hp AC induction phase 1 motor that is readily available at yard sales. I happen to have one from a broken drill press.

It had a stator core with 24 poles. I removed every other one to 12 (hacksaw). Very low tech. this was to make the winding easier and allow time between pulses. The idea is to pules 6 at a time. and to use Steven's suggestion to change polarity on each pulse. The core is an aluminum and steal mix. it had a smooth surface so I marked it for 6 points that are slightly larger then the stator and removed the rest with a grinder. Sorry I have no fancy machining equipment. If it doesn't work I will have to have one made. The affect of this type of core will be interesting to say the lest.

I am in the process of winding the stator with 22 gage wire and 20, 2 wire winds. Peter's Idea of doing this in 12 separate windings came just in time. I will try running with 12 volts first, then increase to 24.

I plan on following Jetijs excellent work with the circuit design. using the photo switch and a CD with slots attached to the end of the pulley.

I am having a great time learning about electric motors and circuit designed.

Thanks again for all your inspiration.

Twoody,

Welcome to the group. Excellent work so far. The model you are building will teach you the truth about many things. Each design, and every design feature, functions as a specific "question" you are asking of Nature. The behavior of the design is Nature's "answer" to your question. And Nature NEVER LIES!

In this process, there are no "mistakes", there is only "learning". As the process moves forward, if the machine behaves in ways that are different than what you intended, it means that Nature is telling you something important about the design. It's like, if you get the wrong answer(result), its only because you asked the wrong question (design).

With this in mind, I am going to suggest that the original rotor for the induction motor may not be suitable as a starting point for a rotor for this new kind of motor. In the original configuration, the presence of aluminum mixed with the iron causes cross-inductions which are used by the rotating magnetic field to cause DRAG in the rotor, forcing it to follow along. The iron conducts the magnetic field coming from the stator. As the conducted magnetic field interacts with the aluminum, it induces a current that is at right angles to the magnetic field in the iron. This induced current in the aluminum produces a second magnetic field that now drags against the primary field. The complex interaction of these TWO magnetic fields cause the rotor to turn and deliver torque.

In this new style of motor, however, this is not the principle we want operating in the rotor. All we are looking for is a piece of iron to be attracted to the magnetic field of the stator, with no interferences.

But keep working on winding the coils and putting the circuit together. Then try the rotor you have made, but don't be too surprised if it turns slowly or weakly.

One last thought. People like to believe they are building a "free energy machine". This is NOT TRUE. What you are doing is building a "science experiment". If you learn, step by step, and don't quit, you will EVENTUALLY build a model of an electric motor with a COP>1.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[Jetijs]

twoody,
good job! I love your pictures and can't wait to see the results of your motor. How big is the airgap between stator and rotor in your motor?
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Schpankme]

HI

I am having a great time learning about electric motors and circuit designed.

Hello twoody,

Welcome to the group. Bold moves with your motor; I'm looking forward to following your progress.

- Schpankme

[twoody]

My Atraction motor project.

HI
I would just like to thank Peter for sharing this idea that has got us all thinking about doing something. I am like many out there that are following this forum and working on a motor but have not shared my progress.

I am using a 1/3 hp AC induction phase 1 motor that is readily available at yard sales. I happen to have one from a broken drill press.

It had a stator core with 24 poles. I removed every other one to 12 (hacksaw). Very low tech. this was to make the winding easier and allow time between pulses. The idea is to pules 6 at a time. and to use Steven's suggestion to change polarity on each pulse. The core is an aluminum and steal mix. it had a smooth surface so I marked it for 6 points that are slightly larger then the stator and removed the rest with a grinder. Sorry I have no fancy machining equipment. If it doesn't work I will have to have one made. The affect of this type of core will be interesting to say the lest.

I am in the process of winding the stator with 22 gage wire and 20, 2 wire winds. Peter's Idea of doing this in 12 separate windings came just in time. I will try running with 12 volts first, then increase to 24.

I plan on following Jetijs excellent work with the circuit design. using the photo switch and a CD with slots attached to the end of the pulley.

I am having a great time learning about electric motors and circuit designed.

Thanks again for all your inspiration.

[Schpankme]

Stator - magnetic flux flow

... 'holding force' of a magnetized piece ... defined by the actual field strength intensity and surface area ...

Steven

Steven & Jetijs,

I agree with your description of the magnetic flux flow and the improved Stator design; my concern was the limited space available to build an appropriate size coil. Upon reflection, the better design would use a Stator as you've described and increase motor diameter if additonal coil space was required.

Thank you,

Schpankme

[lighty]

I paid about 15$ for these plates, I think that this is very cheap

Told you so.

[Jetijs]

Schpankme,
I agree to Steven about this. You can imagine the magnetic flux as a liquid or water and the core material as a water pipe. You can see that in the case of your motor, the poles are the thinnest parts, that is like there is very small diameter pipes. That will cause some resistance to the flow.

Anyway, today I was at this motor winding company and got my silicon steel plates. The plates are 0.35mm thick and I bought about 18 kilograms of the steel, that should be more than enough for a 120mm diameter core with 60mm thickness. Here's a picture:


I paid about 15$ for these plates, I think that this is very cheap
Also I saw the whole winding process and it is exactly like Steven said, they wind those coils on a separate machine and only then put them into the core:




Also saw some pretty impressive size motors there, this one for example is a 75kW motor:


They have a lot of smaller motors there, but they all have the same type of stator cores and nothing of what they have is suitable for our purpose.




So now I will design the motor in 3D and see how it looks. And then off we go to the laser cutter

[nali2001]

Design

Since the 'holding force' of a magnetized piece of 'whatever' is defined by the actual field strength intensity and surface area, it is better to have your stator fingers like this (see attached) in relation to your rotor.

regards,
Steven

[Schpankme]

... recommend using just four poles.
... pole face to the rotor 60 degrees of arc, with a space of about 30 degrees of arc to the next pole.
... "bar rotor" defining 60 degrees of arc with two flat sides defining 120 degrees of arc.

Peter

Peter,

The motor attached was drawn, using 30 deg increments, to your specifications. This motor is the size of a CD (120 MM DIA), and might be nice if made 120mm Length (?).

My guess on Coil size would be Bi-filar wound, with as many wraps as we can get in the limited space ?

- Schpankme

[Jetijs]

If you have not done this already, I strongly suggest you to read this thread from the beginning. A lot of usefull info here

[Schpankme]

New Project Motor

Schpankme,

# You are going a mile a minute. I haven't even built one myself yet

Thanks,
Jetijs

Jetijs,

Having watched the Electric Motor Secrets DVD and Youtube supplements; I'm interested in 'building along' with you and others, with the same motor design/theroy.

- Schpankme