The bistander thread

[Turion]

bi,
The "truth" will be presented at the conference. I don't assume I know more than anybody. I know what I know from having built a working prototype and learned along the way to overcome problems. I built a machine that does exactly what I say it does. I have the proof on my bench. So I am unwilling to accept any statement YOU make based on YOUR opinion or the opinion of ANYONE that contradicts what I see in front of me. If you seriously believe I am incapable of measuring the voltage across the loads, (six 300 watt light bulbs, each connected to two coils on ONE machine and five 300 watt bulbs each connected to two coils on the NEW machine) or connecting in line amp meters to measure the amp draw of the loads, that's your choice. I have done my best to bring that information forward so that others can replicate the results I am getting. Those that have actually BUILT something have seen that coils can be built that have no self induction, (as Tesla says in his patent) and therefore no Lenz, or at least Lenz occurs at a point where it does not impede the forward rotation of the rotor. Bifilar coils connected in series work, but are not the only means of achieving this. I I am using multifilar coils, but you can do it with capacitors. Some methods have their own drawbacks which must be addressed, such as causing additional amp draw in the motor and a decreased RPM when unloaded. In the case of those coils the "speed up" under load is simply a return to the speed and amp draw the motor SHOULD have been running at in the first place. But there is a solution for that issue. There are several folks on a different forum who are using this information to short coils and capture the high voltage spikes, so they all know what I am talking about is for real. I have also presented information on how to eliminate what I call "magnetic drag" which is caused by the addition of the cores of the coils to the machine and is increased by each coil core that is added. Each coil core added increases the amp draw of the motor, and causes a reduction in motor RPM which in turn results in a loss of production. By providing a balancing repulsion to the attraction of the rotor magnets to the coil cores, this amp draw increase and reduction in motor RPM is eliminated, which increases output and decreases input. This same "magnetic neutralization" solves the issue of the unloaded multifilar coils causing increased amp draw. Those that have actually BUILT something have seen that magnetic neutralization is not only possible, it is very effective. All these statements can be verified by anyone who simply builds the machine. Or you can. wait until the conference when I present it and prove that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Regardless, I have what I have, and nothing YOU say can cause it to cease to exist, nor to cease to do what it does. How does it feel to be irrelevant? Because you truly are.

[bistander]

Bistander

“I ask: If you don't understand what you are dealing with, how can you POSSIBLY know what the truth is by experimenting?”

That’s ridiculous. Through experimentation and testing, you will know the truth, even if you can’t explain it!

Hi,

Thanks for your opinion. Turion is is an excellent example of why my statement is not ridiculous. He experiments, he does not know the fundamentals, or in other words, he doesn't understand what is really happening, so he misinterprets the results that he gets drawing wrong conclusions and then promotes falsehoods.

I don't discount the value of experimentation and, in fact, encourage it, even if you don't know what you're doing. But the truth stands on its own merit, whether there are experiments or not. So use experimentation to learn the truth and use the knowledge developed through science as a pathway to understanding truth. Don't simply assume you know more than Faraday, Lenz, Maxwell and Newton as Turion does when he ignores their works and laws. The true meaning of an experiment comes from replications and validation, things Turion's claim of 2000 watts output using 300 watts input has never had. He learns the wrong things from experiment because he doesn't know what he's doing and refuses to educate himself in the field. He and the likes of Thane Heins do a great disservice by promoting their falsehoods and junk science. I attempt to provide an escape path to truth for their followers. Don't simply believe me, research and study what I say.

Regards,
bi

[crash&burn]

Bistander

“I ask: If you don't understand what you are dealing with, how can you POSSIBLY know what the truth is by experimenting?”

That’s ridiculous. Through experimentation and testing, you will know the truth, even if you can’t explain it!

[Turion]

Once again, you try to divert rather than argue the point. That is the tactic you have always used. When you are wrong, ignore and divert. I know your tactics well. You're pathetic. I will show everything at the conference and I may post a rather interesting video in the next week or so. If I get the time. What you don't seem to be able to get through your head is that if a single coil outputs 1/12 of what I claim at less than 400 watts input, it costs me NOTHING in input to add 11 more coils and I have 12 times the output of the single coil.

[Quantum_well]

Turion, did you see the video Alex shared? That is a lovely way to set up a test rig. The drive motor has no bearings to hinder it. That Fisher and Paykel is oh so smooth and quiet and is drawing just 0.3 amps when idling, that's with bog standard bearings. The fellow hasn't got the best of power supplies but it ain't bad!

[bistander]

I see. So what you’re saying is that both the monofilar coil in the video I posted and the bifilar coil in the debunker video were in a “resonant condition” at ALL frequencies except the one very narrow frequency where speed up under load occurred and so there were system losses because of this resonance that go away when a load is attached. People will be so glad to hear how easy it is to achieve resonance with a coil and that it exists at all frequencies but one. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? You are really reaching now aren’t you! You are hilarious. Where do they find you people? You just keep throwing crap to try and find something that sticks. First you blamed the configuration of the Tesla wound coil for the problem and now you are blaming some kind of resonance. Why not blame it on elves?

And the condition that exists with the generator is not “irrelevant” to my claims of output power. Without engineering around Lenz I cannot output the kind of power I am able to without the amp draw of the motor going through the roof and burning it up because of Lenz. Which is the EXACT same reason magnetic neutralization is not “irrelevant” to my claims of output power vs input. Both are actually essential. Anyone with half a brain could see that.

You can't read, can you? That is in no way what I wrote.

And you cannot "output the kind of power" or rather the amount of power which you claim with the input which you claim.

Again, prove your claim. What's it been? Two, three years now? It'll be forever. In the meantime, learn how to read.
bi

[Turion]

I see. So what you’re saying is that both the monofilar coil in the video I posted and the bifilar coil in the debunker video were in a “resonant condition” at ALL frequencies except the one very narrow frequency where speed up under load occurred and so there were system losses because of this resonance that go away when a load is attached. People will be so glad to hear how easy it is to achieve resonance with a coil and that it exists at all frequencies but one. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? You are really reaching now aren’t you! You are hilarious. Where do they find you people? You just keep throwing crap to try and find something that sticks. First you blamed the configuration of the Tesla wound coil for the problem and now you are blaming some kind of resonance. Why not blame it on elves?

And the condition that exists with the generator is not “irrelevant” to my claims of output power. Without engineering around Lenz I cannot output the kind of power I am able to without the amp draw of the motor going through the roof and burning it up because of Lenz. Which is the EXACT same reason magnetic neutralization is not “irrelevant” to my claims of output power vs input. Both are actually essential. Anyone with half a brain could see that.

[bistander]

Bistander, do you understand what Thane Heins's patent on a generator coil actually means? A patent wouldn't be granted on a perpetual motion machine.
Thank you.

Hi Q_w,

I think I read or at least looked at his patent long ago. I don't recall his claims. I doubt there is a perpetual motion claim. However the patent office has been known to issue patents on BS which amounts to perpetual motion, contrary to their stated policy. I suspect the examiner and officials have been fooled by the applicants and their attorneys. Those perpetual motion patents which I've noticed have all ended up in the archives gathering dust. Occasionally one is used as promotion for scam. Some are even discussed here on this forum, like Figuera, re. http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/...-builders-only

Regards,
bi

[Quantum_well]

Bistander, do you understand what Thane Heins's patent on a generator coil actually means? A patent wouldn't be granted on a perpetual motion machine.
Thank you.

[bistander]

Lenz's law states that the current induced in a circuit due to a change in a magnetic field is directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion. That final part of Lenz "law" is what can be engineered around. The fact that it CAN be engineered around is what makes it a reaction and NOT a law. If it was a LAW, the mechanical force would always oppose the motion because it is a "law." But sometimes the mechanical force can assist the motion. Use your head instead of just your mouth. OH, and Lenz law is not "universally accepted in the scientific community. There are MANY experienced electrical engineers who work in transformer design who understand how to engineer Lenz out, and that the magnetic field does NOT have to be directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion.

Even the individual in your famous "Thane debunk video" shows this. As does the video I posted in post 1562, which you chose to ignore. In BOTH cases the induced magnetic field assists the motion rather than opposing it, which is why you get "speed up under load." If the mechanical force opposes the motion in these two videos, please explain how speed up under load occurs. YOU CAN'T. So once again you are wrong, and once again you will attempt to divert the conversation to make yourself appear knowledgeable, when in reality, you don't know Jack. And Jack would be ashamed to say he knows you!

But you have a good day now. We're all aware of the world you live in where all laws must be followed to the letter. It's called a BOX.

Turion,

You, and your "MANY experienced electrical engineers who work in transformer design who understand how to engineer Lenz out, and that the magnetic field does NOT have to be directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion", are misinterpreting some phenomena and drawing an erroneous conclusion, which is irrelevant to your claimed free energy device.

You ask "If the mechanical force opposes the motion in these two videos, please explain how speed up under load occurs."

I've given you my opinion and the debunker video supports my opinion . The opposing force is not eliminated but rather additional losses are created from a resonance at the "apparent" no-load condition. When the coil is connected to the load, the resonant frequency changes thereby reducing system loss and reducing the torque.

Notice that I call it my opinion. It is supported by some evidence and not dependent on breaking laws. Speed-up-under-load is little more than a curiosity. It certainly has never been shown to cause more output power developed than required input power.
bi

[Turion]

You say "If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law". That's stupid. Who told you reactions can't be a law? Lenz Law is universally accepted in the scientific community. You can bad-mouth the Law all you want, as you do with Newton's Laws, but the Laws stand on their own merits, as does truth, and not your interpretation.

bi

Lenz's law states that the current induced in a circuit due to a change in a magnetic field is directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion. That final part of Lenz "law" is what can be engineered around. The fact that it CAN be engineered around is what makes it a reaction and NOT a law. If it was a LAW, the mechanical force would always oppose the motion because it is a "law." But sometimes the mechanical force can assist the motion. Use your head instead of just your mouth. OH, and Lenz law is not "universally accepted in the scientific community. There are MANY experienced electrical engineers who work in transformer design who understand how to engineer Lenz out, and that the magnetic field does NOT have to be directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion.

Even the individual in your famous "Thane debunk video" shows this. As does the video I posted in post 1562, which you chose to ignore. In BOTH cases the induced magnetic field assists the motion rather than opposing it, which is why you get "speed up under load." If the mechanical force opposes the motion in these two videos, please explain how speed up under load occurs. YOU CAN'T. So once again you are wrong, and once again you will attempt to divert the conversation to make yourself appear knowledgeable, when in reality, you don't know Jack. And Jack would be ashamed to say he knows you!

But you have a good day now. We're all aware of the world you live in where all laws must be followed to the letter. It's called a BOX.

[BroMikey]

Truth stands on its own merit. I see little of it coming from you.

You say "If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law". That's stupid. ; bi

Dave has always feared the big oil and we can understand. I say we, not you. You are failing to hear the truth. Dave is right and you are incorrect. New reeducation programs are coming for those who want to understand the real truth. You may get involved. Schools will be coming to help you past the programmed stumbling blocks placed in your way so that you will fall. Are you willing to be taught?

At present people are being paid to spread whatever doctrine. Soon you can be paid to spread all doctrines. If money is your goal then you are so shallow that you will be laughable. Money is the cheapest thing you will ever have.

[bistander]

Alas, poor bistander must once again fall back on the instance where I made a mistake about a battery I had not completely taken apart to prove his manhood. If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law, it can be engineered around as I have said. So we agree on that now. Finally you accept the truth.
...

Truth stands on its own merit. I see little of it coming from you.

You say "If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law". That's stupid. Who told you reactions can't be a law? Lenz Law is universally accepted in the scientific community. You can bad-mouth the Law all you want, as you do with Newton's Laws, but the Laws stand on their own merits, as does truth, and not your interpretation.

bi

[Turion]

Alas, poor bistander must once again fall back on the instance where I made a mistake about a battery I had not completely taken apart to prove his manhood. If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law, it can be engineered around as I have said. So we agree on that now. Finally you accept the truth.

Quantum, you wanted some numbers. Here is a simple experiment where he gives you all the data you have asked for and I don't have to waste my time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCIws7zppU

Oh, and he does it with a monocular coil. Like I have said. ANY coil will speed up under load at the correct frequency.

[BroMikey]

There's no way to mess with the process, it works according to the known rules. Maxwell and Einstein were two bright bulbs.

https://youtu.be/1FE0Z4lov7Y

Don't forget to put that tooth under your pillow for your Fairy Godmother to have. More of that here in video