The bistander thread

[bistander]

Have you EVER had a motor turning a rotor up to its “rated speed and then started adding coils with cores? Didn’t think so. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. It is really sad when someone who has never done the experimenting and has no understanding of the truth just keeps blabbing away is if he knows everything.

Oh, and the single battery circuit I showed you? That was just to prove that you can create an electrical loop back to the source. I work with that circuit FAR MORE than I do with the generator because the generator, even though it works, is obsolete. I bet I work with that circuit three out of five days. THAT circuit is where I spend the tiny bit of free time I have. Especially while waiting for PARTS for the generator to begin testing. Only MY circuit has a bunch of extra components in it that allow it to actually produce energy, not just recover SOME of it. Oh and the waiting for generator parts is over. Time to find the core material of my dreams.

Have you EVER had a motor turning a rotor up to its “rated speed and then started adding coils with cores?

With cores, yes. Coils are irrelevant for these magnetic drag tests.



6 cores, one at a time, speeds up to 8,000RPM.
bi
edit: although I said it before, 4 magnets on rotor.

[bistander]

OK, I finally had a few moments to sit down and look at an older setup I have that is much like the one Voltan built, except it uses a rotor with 8 magnets on it and it has several generator coils and one motor coil. But it is a horizontal action of the rotor rather than the vertical action like my machine. It is actually all made of wood.

And I believe I have figured out what bi is babbling about. It is obvious he has actually DONE some experimenting or he wouldn't' KNOW what the results of moving the core away would be. But what his insistence on this issue does ABSOLUTELY prove to me is just how little bi understands what I am doing with this machine. He understands NOTHING at all.

When you have a rotor magnet that is attracted to a coil core, and on the opposite side of the rotor you have a stator magnet in opposition to the rotor magnet so that the forces of ATTRACTION and REPULSION are EQUAL, and you REMOVE the core, of COURSE the amp draw of the motor is going to go up. How dense are you bi? You have just put two magnets of the same polarity in direct conflict with each other and removed the "ATTRACTION" element from the equation that COUNTERACTED or "NEUTRALIZED" that repulsion. Trying to move MULTIPLE magnets past a static magnet that is of the same polarity will result in amp draw of the prime mover. Shocking revelation!! You got me on that one! The attraction of the rotor magnet to the coil core is the flip side of the coin from two magnets in opposition. Either one WITHOUT the other will result in additional amp draw from the motor. Is that REALLY so hard to understand? 7th grade science experiment!

And you're running around demanding I do testing I have already done so you can prove your "theory" that there is something I don't understand about my machine?
I think I just hurt myself

You screw everything up on purpose to confuse and hide from truth.

My test has always been to set the core properly as you'd use it in your generator. It will cog, right? Now install and adjust your neutralization magnet to mitigate the cogging and neutralize the magnetic drag which you believe it can do. Got that? That, according to you, will minimize motor current for a constant RPM and voltage. Right?

So, running steady at that RPM and voltage, backing out the neutralization magnet should cause the current to increase according to you.

It does not. Thereby showing that the neutralization magnet, although mitigating cogging, does not reduce magnetic drag. The magnetic drag was present when the neutralization magnet was in place, and remains there when the magnet is removed

Do it and show the ammeter change as the neutralization magnet is backed away from the rotor. Simple. But you will not. And I know why.
bi

[bistander]

Sir, bi if you say that the movement and consumption of the motor that drives the rotor is not affected at all, that is to say that it does not matter if it has 2 cores, 8 cores, and that magnetic neutralization is not necessary.

With a single core there is already a difference in the motor consumption, the attraction of the core in the stator and the rotor magnet there is an attraction, put more cores, there will be more attraction and more consumption, that's why I said, if not, I would be happy, because I could put all the cores I wanted and not increase the consumption of the engine.

The hundreds of tests that Mr. Dave has done, the engines that I burn when I don't have the magnetic neutralization, and when he added the magnetic neutralization I avoid burning the engine.

In my replica, already with the rotor turning I added a single core, there was already a change in consumption, to maintain the same rpm, I know that will explain this, go ahead, put it to the test it would be better.

Putting 8 cores without neutralizing magnets is not the same as putting 8 cores with neutralizing magnets, it is that simple Mr. Dave has repeated dozens of times.
Mr. Bi, do the tests, do not ask Mr. Dave to do the same as you, you are doubting and saying that this is not how they pose it, you have the freedom of not believing, but you also have the opportunity to experiment, and show the opposite.

We look forward to your uncut videos where you show us your results.

Another thing I am not against you, I learn from everyone, I can be wrong, but the best learning is what I do in the projects, and the guides of other experimenters help us move forward.

alex,

Again, I have never said that. Show me a quote. You can not because I have never said it.

bi

[alexelectric]

Hello Alex,

You say "Remember that Mr. Dave's test says that when you put more cores you have more attractions between the magnets and the cores (magnet attractions - cores), and that translates into greater amperage consumption in the drive motor,"

Why tell me?

I have never said otherwise.

Then you say "i could build the generator by adding any number of cores without increasing drive motor amperage."
This is what Turion claims will be the case when his magnetic neutralization scheme is used. And that is untrue.

If you have trouble remembering, go back and read the section of this thread which I linked to above. It's all there.

Regards,
bi

Sir, bi if you say that the movement and consumption of the motor that drives the rotor is not affected at all, that is to say that it does not matter if it has 2 cores, 8 cores, and that magnetic neutralization is not necessary.

With a single core there is already a difference in the motor consumption, the attraction of the core in the stator and the rotor magnet there is an attraction, put more cores, there will be more attraction and more consumption, that's why I said, if not, I would be happy, because I could put all the cores I wanted and not increase the consumption of the engine.

The hundreds of tests that Mr. Dave has done, the engines that I burn when I don't have the magnetic neutralization, and when he added the magnetic neutralization I avoid burning the engine.

In my replica, already with the rotor turning I added a single core, there was already a change in consumption, to maintain the same rpm, I know that will explain this, go ahead, put it to the test it would be better.

Putting 8 cores without neutralizing magnets is not the same as putting 8 cores with neutralizing magnets, it is that simple Mr. Dave has repeated dozens of times.
Mr. Bi, do the tests, do not ask Mr. Dave to do the same as you, you are doubting and saying that this is not how they pose it, you have the freedom of not believing, but you also have the opportunity to experiment, and show the opposite.

We look forward to your uncut videos where you show us your results.

Another thing I am not against you, I learn from everyone, I can be wrong, but the best learning is what I do in the projects, and the guides of other experimenters help us move forward.

[Turion]

OK, I finally had a few moments to sit down and look at an older setup I have that is much like the one Voltan built, except it uses a rotor with 8 magnets on it and it has several generator coils and one motor coil. But it is a horizontal action of the rotor rather than the vertical action like my machine. It is actually all made of wood.

And I believe I have figured out what bi is babbling about. It is obvious he has actually DONE some experimenting or he wouldn't' KNOW what the results of moving the core away would be. But what his insistence on this issue does ABSOLUTELY prove to me is just how little bi understands what I am doing with this machine. He understands NOTHING at all.

When you have a rotor magnet that is attracted to a coil core, and on the opposite side of the rotor you have a stator magnet in opposition to the rotor magnet so that the forces of ATTRACTION and REPULSION are EQUAL, and you REMOVE the core, of COURSE the amp draw of the motor is going to go up. How dense are you bi? You have just put two magnets of the same polarity in direct conflict with each other and removed the "ATTRACTION" element from the equation that COUNTERACTED or "NEUTRALIZED" that repulsion. Trying to move MULTIPLE magnets past a static magnet that is of the same polarity will result in amp draw of the prime mover. Shocking revelation!! You got me on that one! The attraction of the rotor magnet to the coil core is the flip side of the coin from two magnets in opposition. Either one WITHOUT the other will result in additional amp draw from the motor. Is that REALLY so hard to understand? 7th grade science experiment!

And you're running around demanding I do testing I have already done so you can prove your "theory" that there is something I don't understand about my machine?
I think I just hurt myself

[Turion]

Have you EVER had a motor turning a rotor up to its “rated speed and then started adding coils with cores? Didn’t think so. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. It is really sad when someone who has never done the experimenting and has no understanding of the truth just keeps blabbing away is if he knows everything.

Oh, and the single battery circuit I showed you? That was just to prove that you can create an electrical loop back to the source. I work with that circuit FAR MORE than I do with the generator because the generator, even though it works, is obsolete. I bet I work with that circuit three out of five days. THAT circuit is where I spend the tiny bit of free time I have. Especially while waiting for PARTS for the generator to begin testing. Only MY circuit has a bunch of extra components in it that allow it to actually produce energy, not just recover SOME of it. Oh and the waiting for generator parts is over. Time to find the core material of my dreams.

[BroMikey]

Ole Bye Slander is the ultimate motor generator wizkid. Mr know it all will be proud. Google has bye up red hot front and center as the king pin of motor generators an he aint even installed the magnets. wouldn't you know it?

Keep us all updated on your findings, Dave is still learning. Show the world what you got.

[bistander]

...All I know is it requires far less amps to run my motor when all the coils with their cores are in place and the neutralizing magnets are adjusted than it doers when the magnets are backed off all the way. THAT IS A FACT. ...

The easy proof is this 7th grade science experiment, as you call it. That is to adjust the neutralization magnets to best position, run at a constant speed, rated preferably, and with constant voltage to the motor. Now back the neutralization magnets away from the rotor so they have little or no influence. Monitor motor current as you do this. If you are correct, current will go up. Right? I say it will not increase and may even decrease a bit.

I requested that you run this test as it was obvious that you had all the required apparatus and parts on hand, and it'd only take a few minutes. You refused and asked me to do it. It took a while, but I assembled a test rig and acquired the necessary parts to run the experiment. So run the test and show your data. Then I'll do the same.

Truth will be known.
bi
BTW, I don't care if your cores have coils on them as long as all the individual strands are unconnected.

[bistander]

I really do not belong on this thread but wanted to state for the record, I am set for ESTC to finish my run with E. Dollards lecture. The fact that Dave will be there is a big plus. I will see with my own eyes and document what I see. I hold no bias for or against, I will tell it just as I see it. Just like the Megaphone News Reel, "Straight up, around the world, and right in your face". Have a bit of faith, Dave has put his rep on this.
thay

Thank you thay.
bi

[bistander]

Put your money where your mouth is. Afraid? We ALL know the answer to THAT now don't we.

By there way, I really have no idea exactly WHAT would happen when I adjust the magnets to reduce the amp draw of the motor and increase its RPM and then BACK THEM OFF. For all I know the amp draw MIGHT actually go DOWN before it goes back UP. I suppose that is possible. IS THAT why you want me to try it so bad? So you can have a tiny little moment of victory? All I know is it requires far less amps to run my motor when all the coils with their cores are in place and the neutralizing magnets are adjusted than it doers when the magnets are backed off all the way. THAT IS A FACT. I will bet $$$ on it bi. Will you bet I'm wrong? DIdn't think so. COWARD.

Have you even bothered to LOOK at the videos we posted of the machine in Greyland's shop? With 12 magnets on the rotor and 12 coils in the machine, the offsetting magnets allow him to spin the rotor with one finger. If Greyland was a motor drawing amps, how many do you think he would be drawing to spin the rotor with one finger? A lot or very little?



WIth NO offsetting magnets, I have to put a 12" crescent on each end of the machine and apply all the force I can just to move from one magnetic lock position to the next. That's 1/12 of the circumference. I expend more energy to move it 1/12 of a rotation than he does spinning it with one finger all day long. Or at least it seems like it.

Get a CLUE!. Sometimes you are just also dense it hurts my brain to even try and talk to you.

Where were we? Oh yeah. Cogging. Remember now? It has negligible effect at rated speed. All your little neutralization magnets scheme does is mitigate cogging. So they don't help one bit at rated speed. If you agree, then there is no need to do the test. It's purpose was solely to demonstrate the neutralization magnets have no, or only a miniscule, effect at rated speed. If you have trouble remembering your claims about this, please reread the portion of this thread to which I linked above.

Voltan,
Same principle at work as in my generator, which I show below. It's what I have been saying for YEARS now. What you have shown is EXACTLY the 7th grade science experiment I asked bystander to do that he hasn't got around to yet. It proves what I have been saying is true. ...

Aren't we talking about this science experiment which YOU asked me to do? I'm ready to do it for you. You do it first. Otherwise you never will, just like before with that one battery generating system you asked people to build. I did and showed it, then you never showed yours. You show me yours first, then I'll show you mine.

And speaking of Greyland. I hope he is well. It has been a long time since we've seen any testing from him. Has he given up?

What about the other black beauty machine? Is it pumping out free energy?
bi

[Turion]

Put your money where your mouth is. Afraid? We ALL know the answer to THAT now don't we.

By there way, I really have no idea exactly WHAT would happen when I adjust the magnets to reduce the amp draw of the motor and increase its RPM and then BACK THEM OFF. For all I know the amp draw MIGHT actually go DOWN before it goes back UP. I suppose that is possible. IS THAT why you want me to try it so bad? So you can have a tiny little moment of victory? All I know is it requires far less amps to run my motor when all the coils with their cores are in place and the neutralizing magnets are adjusted than it doers when the magnets are backed off all the way. THAT IS A FACT. I will bet $$$ on it bi. Will you bet I'm wrong? DIdn't think so. COWARD.

Have you even bothered to LOOK at the videos we posted of the machine in Greyland's shop? With 12 magnets on the rotor and 12 coils in the machine, the offsetting magnets allow him to spin the rotor with one finger. If Greyland was a motor drawing amps, how many do you think he would be drawing to spin the rotor with one finger? A lot or very little?



WIth NO offsetting magnets, I have to put a 12" crescent on each end of the machine and apply all the force I can just to move from one magnetic lock position to the next. That's 1/12 of the circumference. I expend more energy to move it 1/12 of a rotation than he does spinning it with one finger all day long. Or at least it seems like it.

Get a CLUE!. Sometimes you are just also dense it hurts my brain to even try and talk to you.

[thaelin]

I really do not belong on this thread but wanted to state for the record, I am set for ESTC to finish my run with E. Dollards lecture. The fact that Dave will be there is a big plus. I will see with my own eyes and document what I see. I hold no bias for or against, I will tell it just as I see it. Just like the Megaphone News Reel, "Straight up, around the world, and right in your face". Have a bit of faith, Dave has put his rep on this.
thay

[bistander]

I repeat: CAN'T WAIT FOR YOU TO DO SOME.

By the way, would you care to make a bet as to who is correct about the significance of magnetic neutralization? I stand by my claim of EXACTLY what it will do for the generator. I'll put my MONEY where my mouth is. What will you put up? Nothing. You hide in the dark and do your best to ruin my reputation, but the problem with that is, it's all going to come out fairly soon, and THEN who will have the last laugh? I really don't need one, because I've been laughing at you all along. That's why you won't show your results. Even voltan can see the benefit with the SINGLE COIL unit he built.

I repeat: CAN'T WAIT FOR YOU TO DO SOME.

Turion,

All I'm asking is this, except using cores instead of coils as you show in the diagram.

Just run it at steady speed and back the stator magnets away showing effect on the motor current. You do it, and I'll do it. You go first. Afraid?
bi

I repeat. You do it, and I'll do it. You go first. Afraid?
bi

[Turion]

I'm glad to see you are such an expert on how testing SHOULD be conducted. Can't wait for you to do some.

I repeat: CAN'T WAIT FOR YOU TO DO SOME.

By the way, would you care to make a bet as to who is correct about the significance of magnetic neutralization? I stand by my claim of EXACTLY what it will do for the generator. I'll put my MONEY where my mouth is. What will you put up? Nothing. You hide in the dark and do your best to ruin my reputation, but the problem with that is, it's all going to come out fairly soon, and THEN who will have the last laugh? I really don't need one, because I've been laughing at you all along. That's why you won't show your results. Even voltan can see the benefit with the SINGLE COIL unit he built.

[bistander]

Multifilar coils have NO more effect on the results than a standard coil does, UNLESS THE STRANDS ARE CONNECTED IN SERIES. There is no difference between one strand on a coil and 12 strands in parallel on a coil unless connections are made to put wires in series on the coil with 12 wound in parallel. If you had done the bench work, you would KNOW this. But all YOUR "knowledge" and "understanding" comes from the work of OTHERS that you have "read" about or observed on YouTube.

You keep bringing g up that issue with the battery because it is the only time you've ever been right and I was wrong. You must be so proud. Have you never been right before? Do you have to keep bringing it up because it's the only time you ever we're? Do you share it with all your friends? Do you post about it on social media? Do you have the exchange printed out and taped to your wall? Do you call your mommy to tell her you were right once?

I never said magnetic drag or cogging had anything to DO with "coils". But when oner of MY "coils" is ion place, so is a core. I continue to say this and you don't seem to be able to get it through your head. So when one of MY coils is in place, there is cogging and there is magnetic drag, because there IS a core. I don't know how to spell that out for you any clearer than I have on multiple occasions.

I don't "operate with no loads on the coils" so the heat issue is entirely one of crappy core material. The coils are unloaded only long enough to get the machine up to the proper rpm before engaging the load so that the Lenz effect does not take place.

I'm glad to see you are such an expert on how testing SHOULD be conducted. Can't wait for you to do some.

You say "I don't "operate with no loads on the coils"

Yet in many videos the machine runs almost all the time with many coils unloaded. In fact, only rarely and briefly are all your coils loaded before it is shut down or loads turned off.

I can just go by what you show in those videos. You're right that leaving the 12 parallel strands unconnected would not then constitute a multifilar coil. But I doubt that you go to the trouble of disconnecting everytime. Maybe you do. But having no coil there for the test is a sure way of eliminating a variable. Or is accuracy and transparency not on your priority list.

As far as you not being capable of counting a few battery cells, the point is your "test data" statements are unreliable. You cannot be trusted to see what's real when it is right in front of you. When it comes to such remarkable extraordinary claims as you've made, nobody can be trusted and proof is required. That's all I am attempting here: to get you to provide proof of these claims which you make.
bi

BTW. You say: "I'm glad to see you are such an expert on how testing SHOULD be conducted."

Thank you. I'm just sharing many years of experience in the labs of industry and acidemia.