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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    If you can't see something you can't see it. I must have been over 60 when I finally "got" basic relativity. And then another 5 years till I "got" induction. And all of that was courtesy of YouTube!
    I can't say more than that.
    I am glad you think that relativity is just perfect and that you finally got it. I hate to break the news, it is also flawed science. Things do in fact go faster than the speed of light.

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    If you can't see something you can't see it. I must have been over 60 when I finally "got" basic relativity. And then another 5 years till I "got" induction. And all of that was courtesy of YouTube!
    I can't say more than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post


    There's and old biblical saying "Never argue with a fool"
    Am I a fool for quoting you guys? All I have said is that your science models have unanswered questions as Thane has shown. No one can answer? Why resort to the standard university intimidation tactic because you are on the losing end of this discussion? Common sense does prevail. Shameful name calling only tells us all who schooled you. That is not scientific reasoning.

    This is the same ole little god factor. Why not answer the question on negative work? Because you don't have the capacity to get your head around the subject matter and that is no crime. Just admit you don't understand.

    Cogging is negative work and Bye has stated for years that "at speed" cogging adds no additional cost. Just quoting you guys. Make ya mad huh? Negative work done for free.

    You guys need to answer the question as it has been put to you by the best or take up knitting.

    Thane is asking the question and because you are unable to answer you demand everyone answer all your questions. Projection and confusion is your game.

    Negative work can not be done for free. BEMF is negative work in the form of cogging. What's so hard about that? Cogging occurs when one pole approaches another where BEMF resists the rotors foreword rotation and after TDC these pole attract, resisting the rotor poles departure.

    That is the definition of BEMF/ cogging, you say that "at speed" is done at no addition cost. We have had this talk for years now. Look back in the record. The fact is you guys are not qualified to even answer his question.

    The mistake occurred in 1830 when the science dept tried to say Newtonian law was the same as all of the Faraday and electrical laws.

    Are you prepared to dust off the books? No I think not so you are infuriated. Get your thoughts in order or go plow the garden.

    All you guys do is post pretty graphs. You know very little about winging it. You hide behind the teacher told me apron strings.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 06-14-2021, 09:23 AM.

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post

    You don't understand plain English. Thane admitted voltage is NOT maximum at TDC so everything he says in that video about coil behavior is WRONG.

    I should have realized that you would not understand a rehtorical question like volts and joules being the same. You and Thane probably don't know anyway.
    bistander I put a graph on 1748 that explains energy balance. You can't argue with that.

    There's and old biblical saying "Never argue with a fool" and someone put a rider "They'll bring you down to their level then beat you with experience "
    You might as well pull the plug on it!

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post

    Now you are asking the right questions, think about it enough and the blinders come off. The answer to this question is handled in the video.
    You don't understand plain English. Thane admitted voltage is NOT maximum at TDC so everything he says in that video about coil behavior is WRONG.

    I should have realized that you would not understand a rehtorical question like volts and joules being the same. You and Thane probably don't know anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post


    And "BEMF are[is] work" is also incorrect, negative or positive. Interesting that "Thane clearly shows" it. How does he account for units discrepancy or does he believe volts and joules are the same thing?
    bi
    Now you are asking the right questions, think about it enough and the blinders come off. The answer to this question is handled in the video.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post

    You have always said cogging at speed is at no cost. How does it feel to be caught in your own mixed up mind. Don't worry, you are not the only one. You are the majority. You represent science as it is falsely taught. You spent years telling us cogging at speed comes free of charge.

    Thane clearly shows that cogging and BEMF are NEGATIVE work done. Science teaches that negative work is done at no cost, just as you have said.
    You conflate what I said. I said, at speed, cogging is not a loss mechanism, meaning it is give and take, gain and lose, the same amount each time the magnet approaches and departs the core for net zero energy. The moment of inertia, or angular momentum, of the rotor accounts for the intermittent energy storage and result is that cogging is typically unnoticeable.

    "Science teaches that negative work is done at no cost, just as you have said" That is a lie. Actually two lies. I never said it and science never taught it. Just stop the lies and face the truth. And when you accuse someone of a lie on this board where there is a written record, supply the time stamped quote.

    And "BEMF are[is] work" is also incorrect, negative or positive. Interesting that "Thane clearly shows" it. How does he account for units discrepancy or does he believe volts and joules are the same thing?
    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post


    You lie about me again. "Bye said science teaches, cogging (Negative work) is free work AT SPEED"

    Show us where I said (wrote) that. You cannot, because I never did. You can't handle the truth so you lie.
    You have always said cogging at speed is at no cost. How does it feel to be caught in your own mixed up mind. Don't worry, you are not the only one. You are the majority. You represent science as it is falsely taught. You spent years telling us cogging at speed comes free of charge.

    Thane clearly shows that cogging and BEMF are NEGATIVE work done. Science teaches that negative work is done at no cost, just as you have said.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post

    Exactly, just like Bye said science teaches, cogging (Negative work) is free work AT SPEED. You guys stick with me and I'll get you on board.


    Originally posted by bistander View Post

    So Thane admitted he has been teaching you a falsehood since 2007 that the current changes direction at TDC, ref. time marker ~8:45 on this new video. In other words, he didn't know what he was talking about then (and still doesn't). I pointed this out last Feb. 11th on this thread. Copy of that post below.
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
    Engineers only, way over the heads even in advanced studies. You have to be crazy to get this.


    Originally posted by bistander View Post





    This graphic was chosen by Thane ( likely drawn by him) to use as the premise of the argument which he presents in the video. The red curve represents load current versus rotor position for the conventional coil. As shown in the simple schematic below the graph, load current is same as coil current. His graph depicts maximum coil current at TDC, top dead center or when the rotor magnet is aligned with the center of the coil. This is wrong. When the guy begins with and uses a false premise, his argument falls apart. This is evidenced by his narrative, part of which I transcribed here.

    ​​​​​​2:56
    When the rotor magnet moves past the coil
    2:59
    Past top dead center, past the current crest
    3:06
    Now the current flowing in the coil changes direction. The induced magnetic field from the coil turns into a South Pole.
    3:19
    And the coil resists the rotor magnet departure away from the coil
    3:24


    He says the current changes direction as it passes TDC. Clearly his graph contradicts this. In fact, his graphs shows nothing but positive current. If it is positive on both sides of TDC, it does not change direction through the coil thereby according to his premise visual aid, the coil does not change polarity.

    The video is nonsensical. As are his other videos. In one of the last two posted by BM, Thane claims a battery electric vehicle using his coils will charge its batteries while driving and then discharge its batteries when parked delivering power to your home or workplace.
    ...

    Regards,
    bi



    Remember the posts that I just pasted above? Thane admits the current does not change direction at TDC. I had noticed his error long before and pointed it out to you. You would not discuss or even recognize it then. Or the second time. Thane makes the same mistake in this new video. It seriously blows his whole theory out of the water. But you're unwilling to acknowledge that now, for the third time.

    See why I try to avoid you? You'll just reply with nonsense, insults, ridicule or nothing at all.
    bi
    ______

    edit:

    You lie about me again. "Bye said science teaches, cogging (Negative work) is free work AT SPEED"

    Show us where I said (wrote) that. You cannot, because I never did. You can't handle the truth so you lie.
    Last edited by bistander; 06-14-2021, 03:09 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    This little graph shows cogging torque.

    This graph also shows cogging isn't costing.
    Exactly, just like Bye said science teaches, cogging (Negative work) is free work AT SPEED. You guys stick with me and I'll get you on board.


    Last edited by BroMikey; 06-13-2021, 11:55 PM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    There is one simple reason I have never been able to jump aboard the Thane bandwagon and ride until the wheels fall off. I have seen how narrow the performance window is with my generator coils under load. If the rotor is too slow, the motor bogs down. If the motor is just right, the coils work exactly as I want them to. If the motor is too fast, the load causes the motor to accelerate and coil output isn’t as great. With a generator, working with these kinds of coils is simple. Get the motor up to the correct speed and then engage the load.

    Trying to use these coils in a MOTOR that must run at different speeds all the time seems almost an impossible challenge without advanced computer and coil design where winds on the coil drop in and out of series dependent on motor speed to achieve the effect. Far too involved for a simple guy like me.

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    This little graph shows cogging torque. Sure you could use the negative torque but it's not for free, more positive torque is needed to make up the defecit. Screenshot_20210613-162512_Chrome~2.jpg This graph also shows cogging isn't costing.

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  • Turion
    replied
    US8,546,985B2
    Patent.

    As to Thane…
    I agree Lenz can be avoided. It is a reaction, not a “Law.”

    I agree Energy can be created. As he stated, we do it with transformers (Every time we put energy into the primary side because the secondary side is not electrically coupled to the primary. It is inductively coupled. So the energy in the secondary is “created” energy. It’s just that we put more into the primary to create it than we get out of the secondary)

    As to the rest of what Thane believes, I haven’t seen it on my bench, nor have I tested it, so I withhold judgement. .
    Last edited by Turion; 06-13-2021, 03:26 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Also move to min 9 of this video instruction. Negative work being done for free. The mistake is covered here.
    I can write this all out in magic marker on anyone's forehead who does not understand.Just kidding. This takes real effort. Yawn yawn.


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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Also remember that this is not just an EE field of study but physics as well. Science teaches that negative work is being done for free in the form of counter electromotive force. Rubbish.

    Read carefully. Pictures expand.


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